The Time Has Come For Worldwide Legislation To End Property Speculation

[Normal]

Because real-estate is the only commodity you cannot create more off.

If the price of grain rises, more people grow grain.

If the price of oil rises, more people drill for oil.

If the price and land rises, you cannot create more land.

Rubbish.

Whether we have reached peak oil or not, there is a limited supply. There is a limited amount of rice that you can grow, and this is not guaranteed due to weather, crop failures etc.

[Dave Spart]

Trouble is I suspect hte vast majority of people in the UK who own a home (and not by the by any other property) view it as an Investment as well as a home in varying degrees... many push themselves to buy a bigger home not becasue they want or need it necessarilly but also because they think they will profit from it. Before you can get to a stage where property investment delivers pariah status you'd need to shake most owners view of their property and what it means to them to the very core... long term... the current crash will cool peoples ardour temporarilly but the love affair will swiftly be re-kindled when the next boom kicks off.

I agree. Its unlikely ever to happen.

Last night the Geordies were out in force protesting about Mike Ashley. I wonder how many of those supporters actually know the first thing about the Credit Crunch?

[IMHAL]

False choice.

We can have a paper/electronically money system and do it through voluntary contracts.

Intrigued! Are you at liberty to expand?

HAL

[Bloo Loo]

No it isn't. Council houses are mainly occupied by chavs. We don't need more of them, or the sh*tty estates that they live and breed in!

They will be living somewhere, regardless of who provides it.

[Guest pioneer31]

Sadly, I think legislation wouldn't work. There would always be loopholes.

The only way to stop speculation is for people to get scared away - ie get their fingers burned, badly.

I think a lot of greedy people are going to get shafted in the coming crash

BRING IT ON

[Moo]

Discuss........

Massively relax planning regs. Simple. We can then enjoy a "Land, they're not making it any more, but we've got absolutely shitloads of it sat there doing literally bugger all, so blowing about 20 years of your work effort on purchasing a trivial plot of it is totally stupid" kinda world.

The problem isn't lack of regulation in the mortgage market as such, but too much (completely artificial) regulation in the supply of housing. Virtually unlimited funds available to buy to a very limited supply item... well, we know what happened. Virtually unlimited funds available to buy an item that could be supplied at levels that would way exceed any conceivable demand for it... speculate on that, bitch.

[IMHAL]

I wasnt referring to hedge funds, I was refering to SIVs and there cousins in the Off balance sheet scam.

This allowed them to create a wall of money avoiding capital requirements.

Either these were misunderstood by the regulators, OR they were asked not to notice them.

I'll plump for the 'asked no to notice them' - and when the gov and regulators came round to noticing that their tax take was increasing they verily continued to walk on by whistling no more boom and bust. And was thus born greed more virulant than the plague and deadlier than any could imagine.

HAL

[oracle]

Regulation doesn't work, never has and never will.

This crisis was caused by regulation.

The crisis was caused by regulation in the wrong places.

As per 1929,the problem was leverage.

we need an end to leverage,and the socialisation of losses.

If people speculate then it's no better than putting money on the horses.

If you lose,you lose your money.End of.Grow up and take some responsibility.

What the banks are doing is demanding their money back,for a bet that went wrong.The only way these guys will learn is to implement some tough love.Same applies to BTL.

These bailouts are just irresponsible.

[Injin]

Intrigued! Are you at liberty to expand?

HAL

ye sure.

There are loads of different systems possible - ones that work by recording hours worked, gift vouchers for different stores, backed by real materials such as gold or tobacco.....there is no limit to what people can trade or find valuable, and no real limit to the way a contract can be written. Anorexics will trade food vouchers in a negative way when they are sectioned, to take one wacky example* Marines have been known to trade press ups and other PT punishments for their beer rations, after the argentine collapse people quickly founded barter rooms where they could set up stalls and they excepted payments in pretty much anything. Prisoners trade hard core porn, drugs and fags..with fags usually being money.

What I think most people don't understand is that central banks exist to make people poor, to slow and stop trade and to displace the market to preserve a long irrelevent political model based on hierarchy. As long as people are left alone then it all sorts itself out.

*This stopped once the doctors realised what they were doing and was changed to a system of recorded eating instead.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Injin

[THE BALD MAN]

The time has come for worldwide legislation to end property speculation FOR EVER..........

Take Property - certainly RESIDENTIAL property - out of normal everyday "Investments" - and leave it as it should be -- a sector on its own based on the Golden Principle that a flat/house is somehere to LIVE - and not to use as a tool for speculation....

Tax ANY kind of attempt to Speculate HARD.............

Incremental and high tax on any more than 1 property per adult - married couples count as ONE adult....

i.e. STAMP DOWN HARD on any Property Speculation -- LEAVE IT APART from PROPER INVESTMENTS in Industry, High Tech etc etc etc.

Discuss........

In the UK the simple tax change would be to restrict the deductibility of interest.

[IMHAL]

ye sure.

There are loads of different systems possible - ones that work by recording hours worked, gift vouchers for different stores, backed by real materials such as gold or tobacco.....there is no limit to what people can trade or find valuable, and no real limit to the way a contract can be written. Anorexics will trade food vouchers in a negative way when they are sectioned, to take one wacky example* Marines have been known to trade press ups and other PT punishments for their beer rations, after the argentine collapse people quickly founded barter rooms where they could set up stalls and they excepted payments in pretty much anything. Prisoners trade hard core porn, drugs and fags..with fags usually being money.

What I think most people don't understand is that central banks exist to make people poor, to slow and stop trade and to displace the market to preserve a long irrelevent political model based on hierarchy. As long as people are left alone then it all sorts itself out.

*This stopped once the doctors realised what they were doing and was changed to a system of recorded eating instead.

Thanks - no offence but are you are advocating we go back to a form of barter system?

If so I'll have to put my pig on a diet because its too heavy to carry.

Seriously! what is the alternative?

HAL

[steve99]

Regulation doesn't work, never has and never will.

This crisis was caused by regulation.

Disagree, the HPI bubble in particular was caused by 30 odd years of bank deregulation, previous to that we had bubbles and bursts but nothing like the extent of todays maddness where the banks have tricked the majority population into a borrowing frenzy based on house prices that should never have been allowed. How else could have we ended up with houses costing 10x an average wage? What we have now is the result of untamed freedom and a total lack of regulation.

Edited September 15, 2008 by steve99

[Injin]

Thanks - no offence but are you are advocating we go back to a form of barter system?

If so I'll have to put my pig on a diet because its too heavy to carry.

Seriously! what is the alternative?

HAL

I didn't say anything about barter..eh?

Money is just a medium of exchange. Anyone can make one, it's easy. In prisons, snout is money. The central bank and government act to stop the average citizen from doing so, because millions of people all with varying wants and desires are impossible to tax if they are free to choose a different medium of exchange at any moment. If they tax gold, people will stop using it. If they tax beans, then people will other things. That's why the law is written to make legal tender settlement for all debts public and private, so no one can avoid using the worthless crap paper the Cb spits out.

[Injin]

Disagree, the HPI bubble in particular was caused by 30 odd years of bank deregulation, previous to that we had bubbles and bursts but nothing like the extent of todays maddness where the banks have tricked the majority population into a borrowing frenzy based on house prices that should never have been allowed. How else could have we ended up with houses costing 10x an average wage? What we have now is the result of untamed freedom and a total lack of regulation.

********.

Lega tender law, the corporate immunity of bankers, fiat currency, basel 2 regulations, protection from insolvency as defined by common law and common sense all make banks actually exist.

Without the law creating these vast life draining enterprises, there would be no banks other than warehouse banks.

[Neighbours]

No it isn't. Council houses are mainly occupied by chavs. We don't need more of them, or the sh*tty estates that they live and breed in!

chavs may live in council houses but are not created by council houses

chavs are created by alcohol and drugs

[IMHAL]

I didn't say anything about barter..eh?

Money is just a medium of exchange. Anyone can make one, it's easy. In prisons, snout is money. The central bank and government act to stop the average citizen from doing so, because millions of people all with varying wants and desires are impossible to tax if they are free to choose a different medium of exchange at any moment. If they tax gold, people will stop using it. If they tax beans, then people will other things. That's why the law is written to make legal tender settlement for all debts public and private, so no one can avoid using the worthless crap paper the Cb spits out.

Ok - I interpolate too far me thinks.

Still no further down the road to pinning you down boy.

HAL

[Sourman]

YES! YES! YES!

The chickens are coming home to roost. All property investment is morally bankrupt. It distorts local rents and local house prices, people that do it both here and abroad are nothing more than social parasites.

Edited September 15, 2008 by unclefudgly

[Injin]

Ok - I interpolate too far me thinks.

Still no further down the road to pinning you down boy.

HAL

That's the point.

Money in a free market isn't mandated, it's discovered. The most bartered item in an economy becomes money. The different economies trade between themselves and what they use most often becomes money for them. This explains why the market could choose gold as money even though most people never actually even saw any. That's because there are all kinds of different money floating around.

Carnegies ABC of money is good on this, if you can find a copy.