tenant447 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 but either way, the operation IS a business, sole trading or LTD. Of course. I was just trying to show that, even if there is a huge HPC, they might nevertheless still be able to walk away legally mega-rich because of our laws of directors' and shareholders' limited liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Of course. I was just trying to show that, even if there is a huge HPC, they might nevertheless still be able to walk away legally mega-rich because of our laws of directors' and shareholders' limited liability. yep, itsj ust that some people here were arguing on another thread a few days ago that BTL is an investment, and not a business. I couldnt beleive the revenue would let anyone get away with treating a BTL as anythng other than a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 There has been a huge glut of bear food over the last couple of weeks, so I think we should expect a backlash shortly. The Crash hasn't come yet and there will be an army of people looking for evidence to reassure the market.I suggest we spend some time having a look at the people who for me, and I think manyothers, epitomise the BTL investor. I hate this pair because:- - they have undercut many FTBs in a local area - they have trousered wodges of cash for doing nothing - they seem like unpleasant individuals - they have made a lot of money, but are probably making out that they are doing even better than they really are. Has anyone got an estimate of how much they are really worth? I would love to see them go bust but they are much too smart for that unfortunately. I am qute sure that they are not as wealthy in reality as the media and they themselves would have us believe. they may have been maths teachers,but WHY would anyone want to go into teaching in the first place?? the fun begins when the behavioural psychology bit kicks in...an aspect of teaching which teachers DO allegedly get trained,but many are total failures at. ..the arrival of negative numbers will concentrate the mind wonderfully,and we'll see how good at maths they REALLY are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RightToExistInASpace Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) As someone said above, they probably have their own limited company. From this they are likely paying themselves enormous salries from the "profits". If it all goes horribly wrong, they've got nothing to lose. The company goes bust and they walk away with the fruits of their huge salaries. This is how a limited company works. You can make a fortune and then sit back happily while it all falls apart. Then if you like, you can go and set up another limited company and start over - none of this "bankruptcy" nonsense. I wouldn't confuse them with the average BTL investor who is essentially operating as a sole trader. Personally, if they are pricing people out AND THEN really are screwing them out of their deposits, I'd have no sympathy whatsoever if someone caught up with them and broke their legs with a large blunt instrument. If there's no social justice, ultimately people will make their own. Sorry, is that a bit harsh? Edited October 20, 2007 by RightToExistInASpace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munimula Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) There has been a huge glut of bear food over the last couple of weeks, so I think we should expect a backlash shortly. The Crash hasn't come yet and there will be an army of people looking for evidence to reassure the market.I suggest we spend some time having a look at the people who for me, and I think manyothers, epitomise the BTL investor. I hate this pair because:- - they have undercut many FTBs in a local area - they have trousered wodges of cash for doing nothing - they seem like unpleasant individuals - they have made a lot of money, but are probably making out that they are doing even better than they really are. Has anyone got an estimate of how much they are really worth? I would love to see them go bust but they are much too smart for that unfortunately. I am qute sure that they are not as wealthy in reality as the media and they themselves would have us believe. They are the Northern Rock of the BTL world. Their business model only works when the market is going in one direction...and it's turning direction. If there is any truth in this article; http://www.moneyweek.com/file/36564/could-...to-letters.html Buy to let mortgages deals tend to contain little read covenants regarding the loan-to-value ratio of the mortgage. In a rising market this isn’t the kind of thing borrowers take notice of but in a falling market they may find that it is the ruin of them. It works like this. The loans allow lenders to periodically revalue properties (at the borrowers expense naturally). If the value has fallen and the loan to value ratio has, as a result, risen above the level required by the mortgage (say from 80% to 85%) the lender can then ask the borrower to come up with more cash to get it back down. The result, says my lawyer friend, will be that as capital values drop, buy-to-let investors will start to receive letters from the lenders along the lines of "Dear Mr Bloggs, I should be grateful if you would restore your loan to value ratio by sending us a cheque for £25,000". then where will they get the money from when the banks start making margin calls on their loans? My friends dad lost everything in the last crash because he had a 'business' model based on the one the Wilsons have now. Recently he has made a lot of money again on property but that's because he has bought and sold, not kept rolling equity out thinly to keep buying property. The only way the Wilsons can have bought so many houses is to have rolled the equity out - the average equity is probably tiny - what 10% per property if that so a mere 11% fall in prices puts then in NE on a massive scale - 700 properties x 1% = £1M+ shortfall to the banks Edited October 20, 2007 by munimula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munimula Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 As someone said above, they probably have their own limited company. From this they are likely paying themselves enormous salries from the "profits". If it all goes horribly wrong, they've got nothing to lose. The company goes bust and they walk away with the fruits of their huge salaries. Wow! That'll be the day to buy a house in Ashford. 700+ properties all going to auction in one place What will they go for - £50K a house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdark Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 It staggers me that these guys were maths teachers! To say house prices will double every seven years is total nonsense and shows they lack even a basic understanding of economics. As for their business, I dont know what they have but they seem to concentrated all their efforts and purchases in one area. I have all the respect in the world for a true businessman who looks to create more opportunities and expand into other areas, to employ a workforce and generate wealth for the community, but this really isnt what they do at all. If they really have just kept re-mortgaging to buy more and more, then it makes you wonder just how much they own and owe the banks. I doubt very much whether they are cash rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Im not sure when they started, but it had been a while when they were shown onthe telly, My guess would be about 1982, so they may well have weathered a recession already. On that prog, the guy said prices doubled every 7 years,inflation about 12% I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Im not sure when they started, but it had been a while when they were shown onthe telly, My guess would be about 1982, so they may well have weathered a recession already.On that prog, the guy said prices doubled every 7 years,inflation about 12% I think. I think it was about 1995 from the article I read last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Fool & His Borrowed Money Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) Have fun! http://www.jwipb.co.uk/contact.asp Also, Judith Wilson’s simple guide to property investment The number one rule is: Never use your own money. Judith pays careful attention to the financial pages, so she can anticipate movements in the interest rate. All her mortgages are fixed rate interest-only. Judith believes that because there are not enough properties in the UK to meet housing demand, that there is never a wrong time to buy property. ( ) http://www.jwipb.co.uk/how.asp Edited October 20, 2007 by A Fool & His Borrowed Money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Judith looks to buy houses that people will want to rent, and will increase in capital value. So that's where I went wrong! If only I had known her secret back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomBoom Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 http://www.jwipb.co.uk/prop.asp Stupid bitch can't even do basic math. She lists here 'capital' return without bothering to deduct the money owed to the bank to repay the mortgage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CviewUK Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 From Companies House. Downloads cost £1. Name & Registered Office: JWIPB LIMITED 50 HALL FARM DRIVE TWICKENHAM TW2 7PQ Company No. 05928877 Status: Active Date of Incorporation: 08/09/2006 Country of Origin: United Kingdom Company Type: Private Limited Company Nature of Business (SIC(03)): 7032 - Manage real estate, fee or contract Accounting Reference Date: 30/09 Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED) Next Accounts Due: 08/07/2008 Last Return Made Up To: 08/09/2007 Next Return Due: 06/10/2008 Last Members List: 08/09/2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balloonist Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) Name & Registered Office:JWIPB LIMITED 50 HALL FARM DRIVE TWICKENHAM TW2 7PQ Company No. 05928877 Hmm, that's around half a mile from me. Maybe I should pay a visit? Edited October 20, 2007 by jon211 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 http://www.jwipb.co.uk/prop.aspStupid bitch can't even do basic math. She lists here 'capital' return without bothering to deduct the money owed to the bank to repay the mortgage. She gives an increase in price from £111,000 to £175,000 as an increase of 158%. Looks more like an increase of 58% to me, but I do not want to argue with a maths teacher. A 2-bed property in Ashford goes for about £600 p/m (£7200 p/a). She claims her properties are worth about £180,000, which at interest only for 6% would be £10,800, a loss of £3600, before insurance, management costs etc on the new houses they buy. And buying they are - apparently buying several a week. Convinced that they cannot lose buy the "double in 7 years" rule, they have no reason to stop. Unless they do stop, they will end up bankrupt, and that would be a tragedy! No wonder they need to steal the deposits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomBoom Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 She gives an increase in price from £111,000 to £175,000 as an increase of 158%. Looks more like an increase of 58% to me, but I do not want to argue with a maths teacher.A 2-bed property in Ashford goes for about £600 p/m (£7200 p/a). She claims her properties are worth about £180,000, which at interest only for 6% would be £10,800, a loss of £3600, before insurance, management costs etc on the new houses they buy. And buying they are - apparently buying several a week. Convinced that they cannot lose buy the "double in 7 years" rule, they have no reason to stop. Unless they do stop, they will end up bankrupt, and that would be a tragedy! No wonder they need to steal the deposits! What they have been doing is setting up a tried and tested property scam. They are offering people the 'opportunity' to invest in their portfolio. So idiots looking to make a quick buck buy houses out of their portfolio based on spurious valuations done by their surveyor. Bastards the pair of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenant447 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Well researched, CviewUK. It would seem that their exits are covered. Worst case is probably that property prices plummet and renters dissappear in a general depression, the limited company goes bust, whoever holds the mortgage debt loses out, and W&W dissappear into the sunset with a few million quid extracted from the company in better times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzzzzzz Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Very good yoda and no doubt it leads to the darkside hmmmmmmmm.Now how would you define detesting social injustice? Social injustice? You obviously know nothing about social injustice if you hold these two losers up as examples. Can Bears here do no better? Clearly not. Yawn f@cking yawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 the only way for these people to lose is for values of property to go lower than the prices were when they started buying. hopefully it was around 2003+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RightToExistInASpace Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Dont the banks require personal guarantees if lending to BTL companies? I havent checked but surely they havent been stupid enough to drop this protection? I hadn't considered that. Although with all the debt that gets sold on, it wouldn't suprise me if the banks hadn't been bothering. However, if it does all need a personal guarantee, she's probably just got it all in her husband's name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mackenzie Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 (edited) Social injustice?You obviously know nothing about social injustice if you hold these two losers up as examples. Can Bears here do no better? Clearly not. Yawn f@cking yawn. I was making the point that the op was pissed off with them because they deny others a chance to get on the property ladder not out of jelousy. And it is *an* example of social injustice in my book. Is that so difficult to comprehend? Maybe you shouldn't post when you're drunk. Edited October 21, 2007 by slurms mackenzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugged bunny Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 My impression is that the Wilsons are a pair of sociopaths. Very nasty people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah Heap Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 My impression is that the Wilsons are a pair of sociopaths. Very nasty people. Yes that is about the long and short of it, though I have enjoyed all the posts on this thread. I am assuming that the Wilson's themselves are aware of HPC and will sooner or later going to read this thread. I hope they realise the revulsion that they generate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah Heap Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 Anyone got any info on what this pair of gibbet-skippers are up to at the moment? Are they still buying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddles Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Anyone got any info on what this pair of gibbet-skippers are up to at the moment? Are they still buying? And if anyone wants to do some more research, please find out how this numbnuts is doing; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.j...buytolet103.xml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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