Moved Into My Rented Ast House Today....but......

[thirdwave]

Personally I wouldnt buy it at any price..the only thing its got going for it is its proximity 2 a station within a 40 min commute into London.Anyone who has a decent enough job to be able 2 borrow almost a quarter of a million would b mad 2 buy something this small & hedious

Edited August 29, 2007 by thirdwave

[crown]

Send the letter back marked as 'gone away'.

The last thing you need is a mortgage lender thinking someone lives at your property and owes them money. You'll have the bailiffs round trying to collect your stuff.

The lender will ask you for their forwarding address, give that to them after a few chases. The lender wil then argue the toss with your landlord.

It should take at least 6 months for this plus any court action that may happen. enough time for you to find a new property to rent.

[madasafrog]

I was shocked to read about the crooked and inept dealings of the LL but then i was also shcoked by the lack of morals of the other posters on this thread.

I cant that some believe people think its totally justified to open other peoples mail.

Either its upbringing or just a general sign of the lack of integrity of the general public. Maybe i am just old school but i will certainly make sure my children know whats right and wrong.

Would you go in someone elses wallet or purse, maybe help yourself to a note or two, maybe a credit card? Where do you draw the line?

[hellsbells]

It might be technically illegal, but I would question whether or not it is immoral. Opening the post delivered to your new residential address is always informative - that way you don't get any nasty surprises when:

a) the bailiffs turn up trying to get a previous tenant;

the police turn up trying to arrest a previous tenent;

c) nobody thinks to either open or return to sender really important post, resulting in a court summons and a CCJ against someone who never even knew that a bill was owing in the first place.

All of the abaove have happened to me in the past.

[apom]

Hi gang.

What should I do? And what happens if the mortgage in OO not BTL and the bank repossess during the 6 month AST? Do i have any rights to continue to rent from the Bank. Could I sue the letting Agent?

Thanks in advance for your help as i have a wife a 14month old baby girl who need protecting.

Mark

1: You know the cost of the mortgage, to that you need to add:

building innsurance

Agency fees..

etc..

Look at the rent you are paying, does it cover the mortgage and all costs?

She missed a payment, while it was empty, this means she is close to the wire, but while you pay her, she can pay them..

[youthoftoday]

Hi gang.

Need advice. We will complete on our STR tomorrow and we took on our 6 month AST today to make moving easier. After check in I was looking through the post already there for me from BT, sky, broadband etc and I found a letter address to the Landlord from Birmingham Midshires. i recognised her name from the AST I signed at the letting agents on Saturday.

Anyway, as the day went along moving in boxes etc the letter kept coming back to my mind. I started thinking that as BM are the "lie to buy" king shysters and as this letter was coming here, not to the Landlords address where shes living on the AST.

So I really started to think that maybe the house is on a residential mortgage and the AST address is maybe her parents (the Landlord is a "miss"), and that this could be an rate increase, late payment, or even repossesion notice.

So I at 5pm I thought feck it, and I opened it. Guess what? Late payement notice. £177k outstanding on a property that was bought for £185k in 2004, and the £799 monthly payment due on 2/8/07 was in areears with the next £799 due on 2/9/07.

Advice please on what to do. I cant tell the letting agent that I have opened the Landlords post, But I assume that a BTL mortgage the post will go the the owners residntial address not the BTL address? Which makes me think it's not on a BTL mortgage but the Letting Agent assured me that all Landlords are checked for correct BTL mortgages and insurance etc.

Mark

A few points.

1) Everything may be above board and it may have been due to bank incompetence that the letter went to the rental address. I still get quite a few important mortgage related post for my brother who used to own my house 6 years ago! He has contacted his bank several times but they don't seem to be able to put things right.

2) One swallow does not a summer make. So she has missed one payment, so what? Perhaps she has changed bank account and the new direct debit for the mortgage has failed to be taken. It happens.

3) The £177K mortgage on a £185K house is a 95.68% mortage and as such is unlikely to be a BTL mortage. However it is quite possible that the LL has informed her bank of the change of status and a premium may have been added to her existing mortgage. One of my past lenders charged £500 and added 1% to the mortage in order to be able to let it out. What you may have here is a LTB (Let-to-buy) situation.

4) Perhaps your LL had to move short term (say 1 year) due to her employment situation and hence needs to rent out her house. Maybe she has had her post redirected but this one slipped through the net maybe because the mortgage letter was in her maiden name / spelt incorrectly / post office incompetence.

5) I'm not sure I'd want you as a tenant as by opening her post you have shown that you are not an entirely honest person. Now that you have read it I think you have a duty to pass it on to the letting agent as it is an important letter and your LL really needs to see it, particularly if the whole thing is down to an administrative error.

6) I'm not sure of what format a mortgage arrears letter takes as I have never received one but I would think it contain merely a demand for the £799 payment and the date it was due. I'm not sure it would contain full details of the outstanding amount. An annual mortgage statement would contain those details however and maybe this is what you have opened.

It seems that many of you on HPC are a particularly suspicious and dishonest lot with huge chips on your shoulders.

Edited August 29, 2007 by youthoftoday

[madasafrog]

A few points.

1) Everything may be above board and it may have been due to bank incompetence that the letter went to the rental address. I still get quite a few important mortgage related post for my brother who used to own my house 6 years ago! He has contacted his bank several times but they don't seem to be able to put things right.

2) One swallow does not a summer make. So she has missed one payment, so what? Perhaps she has changed bank account and the new direct debit for the mortgage has failed to be taken. It happens.

3) The £177K mortgage on a £185K house is a 95.68% mortage and as such is unlikely to be a BTL mortage. However it is quite possible that the LL has informed her bank of the change of status and a premium may have been added to her existing mortgage. One of my past lenders charged £500 and added 1% to the mortage in order to be able to let it out. What you may have here is a LTB (Let-to-buy) situation.

4) Perhaps your LL had to move short term (say 1 year) due to her employment situation and hence needs to rent out her house. Maybe she has had her post redirected but this one slipped through the net maybe because the mortgage letter was in her maiden name / spelt incorrectly / post office incompetence.

5) I'm not sure I'd want you as a tenant as by opening her post you have shown that you are not an entirely honest person. Now that you have read it I think you have a duty to pass it on to the letting agent as it is an important letter and your LL really needs to see it, particularly if the whole thing is down to an administrative error.

6) I'm not sure of what format a mortgage arrears letter takes as I have never received one but I would think it contain merely a demand for the £799 payment and the date it was due. I'm not sure it would contain full details of the outstanding amount. An annual mortgage statement would contain those details however and maybe this is what you have opened.

It seems that many of you on HPC are a particularly suspicious and dishonest lot with huge chips on your shoulders.

Well put.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

I was shocked to read about the crooked and inept dealings of the LL but then i was also shcoked by the lack of morals of the other posters on this thread.

I cant that some believe people think its totally justified to open other peoples mail.

Either its upbringing or just a general sign of the lack of integrity of the general public. Maybe i am just old school but i will certainly make sure my children know whats right and wrong.

Would you go in someone elses wallet or purse, maybe help yourself to a note or two, maybe a credit card? Where do you draw the line?

Oh do get off you pious little soapbox. I hope you never have to face the choice of stealing a loaf of bread or letting your family starve as its seems you'd let the buggers starve.

The OP is trying to provide a safe and stable home for his young family. He has entered, in good faith, into a commercial agreement with a 3rd party to achieve this. Now the OP has reason to believe that the 3rd party is not acting is similar good faith to uphold their side of the deal. The prescence of mail from a mortgage lender is the evidence to support this. Hmmm, open it or not?

Well to be fore-warned it to be forearmed (or whatever), open it and see what the situation is. Lo and behold the OP is correct, the landlord is in arrears on the mortgage. I'd much rather be in the OP's situation than yours when the Repo-men turn up and you're not expecting it.

Do you take out insurance? Or do you believe its immoral gambling?

[nowthenagain]

You should stop opening other people's mail! Good lord!

Burn the letter and sit tight. It's not your problem and evicting you won't be easy.

[Unexpected]

Nighmare situation IMHO.

I can't see the LL paying up, given what you say if money is that tight. But you never know they may buckle face to face.

Good luck, you may have to put the whole incident down to experience.

If ever there were a case for not paying the last months rent, that would be it.

[DabHand]

Its legal to open other people's mail if you suspect something like fraud. Pious ones: Royal mail loses something approaching a million letters a week. I'd be more worried about some illegal enjoying the fruits of your latest credit card than getting all Mrs Bu-cket about your tenant uncovering your less-than-dinner-party-conversation antics.

Anyway, £799 on a 177k mortgage is less than 5.5% IO. Landlord's going to have fun when that one resets eh?

[Grizzly Adams]

Definately.

I'm not sure thats going to help the situation

[thirdwave]

Nighmare situation IMHO.

I can't see the LL paying up, given what you say if money is that tight. But you never know they may buckle face to face.

Good luck, you may have to put the whole incident down to experience.

Thanks for that...Looks like I might need it. Can I hold the EA liable under the circumstamces? They are the ones who took the money off me & should be the ones returning it..I am usually a uber bear but this is the sort of thing that puts one off renting..The max I can borrow around £ 260000 on X4 earnings with a 10% deposit would only buy me a really tiny 2 bedder in a seedy part of town where I work but I do sometimes feel tempted to just go for it, if only to avod all the hassle from LLs.

Edited August 29, 2007 by thirdwave

[youthoftoday]

Its legal to open other people's mail if you suspect something like fraud. Pious ones: Royal mail loses something approaching a million letters a week. I'd be more worried about some illegal enjoying the fruits of your latest credit card than getting all Mrs Bu-cket about your tenant uncovering your less-than-dinner-party-conversation antics.

Anyway, £799 on a 177k mortgage is less than 5.5% IO. Landlord's going to have fun when that one resets eh?

The OP waited all of about 8 hours before opening the letter. No attempt was made to contact the LL / agent to pass the letter on. The actions of the OP were dishonest. How suspicious a nature must you have to concoct such an intricate scenario of your LL's financial circumstances.

If I get post wrongly addressed which looks important I write 'Not known at this address. RTS' on it, highlight the return address and drop it back in the post box. If there is no return address then someone at the PO will open it and try to trace the sender. The PO has a department which does this.

Maybe I'm more honest than the average person but I would like to think that most people would behave the same way.

Edited August 29, 2007 by youthoftoday

[Orbital]

Thanks in advance for your help as i have a wife a 14month old baby girl who need protecting.

ouch, all sounds a bit dodge. With a 14month old daughter perhaps you should consider buying again. Dont underestimate the trauma of constant moving around. Looks like you'll be off again soon, and then soon after that. A very brave game to play at such a sensitive stage of your child's development - I really hope the gamble pays off for ya .

I remember the 2nd last place I rented, the guy was an older invester and assured me he had no plans to sell and knowing the purchase price - he was making money on it. A sure thing I told myself having had bad experiences in the past. 12 months later we get our 2 months notice. He decided to give the place to his son.

Renting sucks, but you went into this with eyes open - its the risk you should have been prepared to take. Else why did you STR?! There is a reason people pay more to own their own place! The utility we derive from such a transaction will vary between us greatly - so dont take advice from others who are making the same move - they are probably mobile transient individuals. I guess you had your reasons.

Seriously, Id be looking to secure my position asap. Good luck .

[pootle]

On the business of opening other peoples mail, I had a quick google and came up with the is from a teachers union...

Significantly, the Post Office Act 1953 prohibits the opening of 'any postal packet' which ought to have been delivered to another person. In practice, however, this protection for private mail is limited since an offence only arises if it is opened 'wilfully and maliciously with intent to injure another person'. Needless to say, this can be very difficult to prove.

Having rented for the last 10 years or so my policy has been the following:

1. If it has a return address pop it back in the post with a note to say the person no longer lives there.

2. If there is no return address and I have no other means of forwarding the mail then I open it. This is for 2 reasons:

a ) It protects me - I have previously had bailiffs chasing a previous tenant. The bailiffs didn't care I wasn't the person they were chasing and made me jump through hoops to prove I wasn't.

b ) It protects the previous tenant - if its important then sometimes there is an address inside the letter, write that on the outside, reseal and pop in the post. Sometimes its junk, into the bin it goes. If I didn't do this the post would have to go in the bin only to be put at risk of being opened by someone with less integrity than myself (identity fraudsters)

When I move house I always set up mail forwarding, but I would like to think that anyone receiving mail for me would adopt the same approach I do.

Sometimes I have opened mail for a previous tenant because I've been out late on a Friday night and just sat down with a pile of mail and started opening.

Whoever it was suggested that you reseal the envelope and send it back to BM had the right idea.

[madasafrog]

Oh do get off you pious little soapbox. I hope you never have to face the choice of stealing a loaf of bread or letting your family starve as its seems you'd let the buggers starve.

The OP is trying to provide a safe and stable home for his young family. He has entered, in good faith, into a commercial agreement with a 3rd party to achieve this. Now the OP has reason to believe that the 3rd party is not acting is similar good faith to uphold their side of the deal. The prescence of mail from a mortgage lender is the evidence to support this. Hmmm, open it or not?

Well to be fore-warned it to be forearmed (or whatever), open it and see what the situation is. Lo and behold the OP is correct, the landlord is in arrears on the mortgage. I'd much rather be in the OP's situation than yours when the Repo-men turn up and you're not expecting it.

Do you take out insurance? Or do you believe its immoral gambling?

Well its shows where your morals lie then. I would rather be on a soap box than a gutter

So funny that you can compare stealing a loaf of bread to feed your children to opening someone elses mail. At what point before opening the mail did he feel his family was threatened?

Edited August 29, 2007 by madasafrog

[youthoftoday]

At what point before opening the mail did he feel his family was threatened?

Well said.

[bobthe~]

It has just occurred to me that in hindsight it is probably a good idea before renting a place to find out when the property was last bought. We use mouseprice.co.uk when we are feeling particularly nosy about how much people paid for their house.

The place we are moving into doesn't even appear in the list, and I think it goes back to 2000 at least, so it is probably OK. It doesn't tell you if there is a mortgage on a property, although I believe you can find that out by paying a small fee.

It also doesn't protect you from an ageing landlord deciding to give the property away to his son (as per Orbital's post).

However, that is probably the less likely outcome, if for instance, you want to rent a flat in Leeds.

[It is different this time]

Why do you bulls criticise just the tenant but not the dishonest landlord? OP the best thing you can do is to move out at the end of your 6 months tenancy if the property is not repossessed by then.

[stonethecrows]

It is immoral. Plain and simple.

Regardless of what anyone else does.

When you move home - you do not expect the people moving in to open your post.

When you receive post in your own household, you do not expect other people to open your post.

When somebody sends a letter to you, you do not expect the postman to open your post.

When you invite guests into your house, you do not expect them to open your post.

Do I really have to go on?

It is wrong - and this revelation is clearly making some of the posters on this board feel angry and bad about themselves. It cannot be defended.

Im quite intrigued to see some of the naivety and downright ignorance on this thread with regard to the rights and wrongs of opening mail (FFS) as opposed to the legal rights of the tenants in question. Might I suggest that a little context and perspective be applied to the situations in question. First off when you grant a tenancy as a landlord you are granting the right to exclusive occupation and quiet enjoyment of a property free of landlord harrassment-that includes any dodgy little scheme where the landlord tries to continue to use the property as a 'mail-drop'. There is a perfectly legitimate service you can use to receive mail directly to your new address-it's called mail-forwarding and doesnt cost a lot. If a landlord has nothing to hide in regards to their mortgage and dealings with the property and are a BTL then the mere fact that documentation arrives at the tenancy address is alarm bell number 1 in relation to a potential fraud. I would suggest some of the posters trying to defend the landlords in question are a little deluded if they believe anything to the contrary. I should also like to ask WHY do any of you think we are seeing stockmarket turmoil at the present time? Ah yes that would be in large part down to sub-prime would it not? I dont think it takes a genius to work out that some big institutions are panicking now beccause they have loaned money to high risk and dare I say it even naughty bad con merchants who have merely exploited the loose lending for ill gotten gain. Dont underestimate how much of a problem that is or how it can directly impact innocent folk just trying to provide a roof over their head.

Edited August 29, 2007 by stonethecrows

[bambam]

In an ideal world everyone would be fair, nice and up standing, but this is not an ideal world.

If you do have to open a letter in future, try and steam it open, then when it dries, use a glue stick and very light heat from an iron, that should do it!

Royal Mail loses *lots* of letters. Correct approach is to open it, read it. and throw it away, and it was never received in the first place. Unless you think it's important to pass it on, in which case, oops, my young child opened all the post and one of them was yours, sorry.

[bambam]

I'm not sure as to the ins and outs of exactly where you stand I'm afraid.

Perhaps Citizen's advice or a free 10 minute legal slot with a solicitor or indeed check out Shelter and some of the other links on here.

it's just one payment, nothing to worry about yet.

[madasafrog]

Im quite intrigued to see some of the naivety and downright ignorance on this thread with regard to the rights and wrongs of opening mail (FFS) as opposed to the legal rights of the tenants in question. Might I suggest that a little context and perspective be applied to the situations in question. First off when you grant a tenancy as a landlord you are granting the right to exclusive occupation and quiet enjoyment of a property free of landlord harrassment-that does not include any dodgy little scheme where the landlord can continue to use the property as a 'mail-drop'. There is a perfectly legitimate service you can use to receive mail directly to your new address-it's called mail-forwarding and doesnt cost a lot. If a landlord has nothing to hide in regards to their mortgage and dealings with the property and are a BTL then the mere fact that documentation arrives at the tenancy address is alarm bell number 1 in relation to a potential fraud. I would suggest some of the posters trying to defend the landlords in question are a little deluded if they believe anything to the contrary. I should also like to ask WHY do any of you think we are seeing stockmarket turmoil at the present time? Ah yes that would be in large part down to sub-prime would it not? I dont think it takes a genius to work out that some big institutions are panicking now beccause they have loaned money to high risk and dare I say it even naughty bad con merchants who have merely exploited the loose lending for ill gotten gain. Dont underestimate how much of a problem that is or how it can directly impact innocent folk just trying to provide a roof over their head.

So two wrongs make a right?

The landlords position is not truly known. If they are doing wrong, then shame on them too.

In the eyes of a lot of people on this board, it seems that anything dishonest against a landlord is totally defendable. Its seems that too many people are becoming hysterical on any news relating to a landlord, that they are losing all perspective.

You despise the landlords for their alleged immoral codes by buying up the houses to rent out and make a profit. Well the saying "people who live in glass houses" (rented or BTL) springs to mind

Edited August 29, 2007 by madasafrog

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

You can have my place in heaven madasafrog as I'm perfectly comfortable with my moral position. The only raw nerve you've hit is the way you and a few others are attempting ignore the purpose of the thread with your sanctimonius preachings. If you want to discuss the morals behind opening other people's post when you have due cause then please go away to the off-topic forum and do it, I promise not to post. I'd really love to 'steal' your place on a soapbox but living amongst the scum for such a long time has worn off on me, nowadays I just steal letters .

If the poster didn't feel threatened, why post this on a public forum to ask for advice? 8 hours would be an agonising time if you thought there was a realistic danger that you could be homeless after you had only just been relieved to find somewhere to live. Knowing you've just signed a contract and now there's a realistic chance it could be toast? Would you rather the OP waited a week in future whilst dreaming happy thoughts before opening dodgy post?

Let's be rational about this. There are any number of perfectly reasonably explanations as to why any single part of this tale has happened:

Wrong database at BS used to send out mail - perfectly reasonable...

LL changes bank details so payment gets lost in the system - easy mistake to make...

Unusually high LTV on a letting property* - sounds fair if OO moved for work or something...

Property bought in 2004 - could be a professional, solvent, sensibly geared landlord expanding on the back of equity gains not a muppet OO/BTL noob stretched to the point of going twang on an IVA...

But how many little "misunderstandings" would you accept before you stop believing in coincidences? I normally break at 2 but then I am a little cynical.

Last but not least, HPC is the domain of contrarians, tin-foil hats and the Armageddonistas, of course the advice is likely to say the landlord is a twunt I hope she dies. Go to MSE for "follow the righteous path/it'll all come out in the wash" positive vibes.

*Its an interesting question brought up by one of the moralists regarding such complete information being on a late payment notice and you may be right, I don't know. However I'm not questioning the validity of the OP, I'm taking it as gospel, whether it all be true or not. Amen to that.