Moved Into My Rented Ast House Today....but......

[stonethecrows]

The missing deeds anecdote is 100% true. I remortaged last year from Mortgage Trust (imbeciles) and they sent my deeds to the wrong person. They were sent special delivery and were signed for by a lady in Bristol (I know her name but for obvious reasons won't state it here). She was presumably expecting her deeds (probably remortgaging herself) but got mine instead. I imagine she refused to send them back / destroyed them when they found they weren't hers. At the end of the day the bank sent me copies and that was the end of that.

It is often the case that true anecdotes often sound implausible. Life is like that.

Wow that really is amazing seeing as the Land Registry deal with deeds in electronic format now and everyone who had deeds held with banks or solicitors on paper had them posted out as a matter of course around 18 months ago LMFAO you dimwit Edit: Ah yes I see you probably mean mortgage deeds-and did your deeds have your name and this other woman's address on them? I doubt it and that's the kind of 'mistake' you're trying to say is plausible and I dont think it is frankly. Balance of probabilities says the LL is not doing things legit.

Edited August 29, 2007 by stonethecrows

[youthoftoday]

If the letters don't stop pretty quickly, then at the very least it's evidence that their intended recipient has neglected either to arrange a redirect or inform the sender of a change of address. If they've failed to notify a bank or a building society after several months, something has to be fishy. You don't borrow a large sum of money from someone, move and then fail to tell them that you've moved for several months, unless you're up to no good. It really is as simple as that. Two or three weeks is nothing to get excited about, but more than that suggest that they're trying to gippo something.

Perhaps she does not know she is in arrears, She may be out of the country. Hey, maybe she is on holiday.

Perhaps she doesn't know that letters are being sent to the wrong address since she isn't expecting any mortgage arrears letters. You can't know you're not receiving mail that you don't know you should be recieving. That's one of Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns don't you know?

There is no evidence to suggest she has failed to inform her bank of her new address.

[youthoftoday]

Wow that really is amazing seeing as the Land Registry deal with deeds in electronic format now and everyone who had deeds held with banks or solicitors on paper had them posted out as a matter of course around 18 months ago LMFAO you dimwit

Please don't resort to insults. It reflects poorly on you.

As stated, I remortgaged last year, May to be precise. Applied in March. That would be err...17 months ago then. I am aware that the LR holds electronic copies (I have printout of these as this is what the bank sent me in the end). However, the original documents that my bank (and previous banks) had been holding onto since the house was originally mortgaged are the documents that have gone missing. These original deeds (beside being originals) may well contain more information that the basic LR data. I didn't bother wasting any more time on the matter since I have enough documents to prove ownership etc.

Edited August 29, 2007 by youthoftoday

[stonethecrows]

Perhaps she does not know she is in arrears, She may be out of the country. Hey, maybe she is on holiday.

Perhaps she doesn't know that letters are being sent to the wrong address since she isn't expecting any mortgage arrears letters. You can't know you're not receiving mail that you don't know you should be recieving. That's one of Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns don't you know?

There is no evidence to suggest she has failed to inform her bank of her new address.

Think the balance of probabilities a better way to look at it really-too many perhaps which could or could not be so but if you're a tenant who could lose their home and deposit I know Id be erring on the side of caution and viewing these mailings with the suspicion I think they merit.

But what I really REALLY want to know is..............

..........keep going....

.......didnt you want to get the lady in Bristol 'done' for opening your mail?

Edited August 29, 2007 by stonethecrows

[huw]

Please tell me you arent being serious?

Of course I'm not being serious -- hence the smiley.

The first time I encountered a 'somebody else's post' problem was in a shared house. We all worked at the same company (overseas) and one of the guys had got into serious debt, suffered a relationship breakdown, stopped going to work, and ultimately got the boot. The house owner let him stay rent-free while he sorted himself out, and the jobless guy hung around for a while and then disappeared along with various things that didn't belong to him.

A few weeks later an official-looking letter arrived for him, and the owner of the house (living there too) decided he'd better open it. It was an inventory of everything the bailiffs could see through the downstairs windows, and which they were planning to take. If the owner hadn't opened that letter, we would have got home from work one day with the house broken into and our stuff gone.

Since that experience, my policy has always been to open suspicious letters arriving at my house. I forward mail addressed to the previous owner, but anything that has no credible reason to be sent here, gets opened and checked. Yes, it's 'prohibited' but I believe that I have a moral right to protect myself while nobody has any right at all to use my place as a mail-drop, whether inadvertently or otherwise.

[youthoftoday]

Think the balance of probabilities a better way to look at it really-too many perhaps which could or could not be so but if you're a tenant who could lose their home and deposit I know Id be erring on the side of caution and viewing these mailings with the suspicion I think they merit.

But what I really REALLY want to know is..............

..........keep going....

.......didnt you want to get the lady in Bristol 'done' for opening your mail?

Balance of probabilities eh. Do you know anything about maths specifically regarding probability? I do. Incredible coincidences happen all the time, in fact it would be incredible if they didn't.

As for getting the lady in Bristol 'done' for opening my mail you are missing it aren't you Sherlock? Wait for it....The letter was addressed to her!!!! Since it was special delivery (as deeds are valuable documents) the letter must have been in her name! Thus she actually opened her own mail! Only upon opening it (and the postman having departed would she have realised the error and then become angry at the incompetence of her bank.

Anyway, what would you have me do? Call the police? Bring a private prosecution? Hunt her down like the dog that she is?

[youthoftoday]

If the landlord is behind with mortgage, she will know that BM will be writing.

I would love to see the face of the OP if she calls by and asks if there is any post.

Me too.

[stonethecrows]

Err youthoftoday have you heard of 'tongue-in-cheek' at all?

[Gurgle]

No it isnt as per previous posts though of course you may continue to believe what you wish-please at least support this assertion with something concrete if you are going to openly proclaim it is a fact on a public forum!!

I don't care about the legality of the situation, I mean I personally IMHO (can I add any other comment to say that this is my view) it is morally wrong. I wouldn't do it, and I'd be dissappointed if anyone opened my mail. I don't need anything concrete to back up my own moral beliefs.

[stonethecrows]

And on a more serious note:

madasafrog Posted Today, 03:05 PM

If the landlord is behind with mortgage, she will know that BM will be writing.

I would love to see the face of the OP if she calls by and asks if there is any post.

name='youthoftoday' date='Aug 29 2007, 03:57 PM' post='747889']

Me too.

Not nearly as much as Id like to see the look on the landlords face as she got arrested under anti-harrassment legislation for doing so

[madasafrog]

And on a more serious note:

Not nearly as much as Id like to see the look on the landlords face as she got arrested under anti-harrassment legislation for doing so

Asking about post "harassment?"

Doubtful

[stonethecrows]

Asking about post "harassment?"

Doubtful

Not really, take a look at this: http://www.lsesu.com/display/lse/Harassment+by+Landlords

The law may or may not be an ass but a landlord can get into a lot of shit if they annoy a tenant persistently especially for trivial sh1t like post as they've no right to-there are other ways as stated such as mail forwarding for this

[DTMark]

We lived at a property where the previous tenants had left substantial debts, and were continuing to run up new ones. You could tell by the sheer volume of post which continued relentlessly.

We wrote "gone away, no longer at this address" on the back en-masse and put maybe 100 of these letters back in the postbox.

The mail kept on coming. Eventually we had debt collectors at the door to whom we handed the new unopened mail.

I rang the Police who did not want to intervene because there was no formal complaint from any lender, without which no offence has been committed: it's just a civil matter between the lenders and the tenants.

However I did ask about opening the letters and manually notifying the lenders in response to which they said that provided I did not retain any of the data, or disclose what was in the letters to anyone else, that was OK.

I did this, rang each one in turn - ranging from £500 credit cards and storecards to tens of thousands for private services which post-dated the end of their tenancy - withheld my number each time and refused to give it (as it would only get shared) and finally the mail stopped. We also put a note on the front door "XXXX does not live here. Please call the letting agent (phone number). Thank you."

Six months after we left we had a call from the Police asking for help with their enquiries into the fraud that had been going on.

On balance: I'd open the letters every time. Sending them back marked "Gone Away" is only more likely to have debt collectors turn up to confirm if you have gone away or not.

Perhaps the biggest farce is that when they arrive, they want you to prove you're not the debtor, and you just want them to go away. They don't have a photo of the debtor, so unless they get the Police involved there's not much they can do to prove or disprove it.

Edited August 29, 2007 by DTMark

[Guest d23]

Not really, take a look at this: http://www.lsesu.com/display/lse/Harassment+by+Landlords

The law may or may not be an ass but a landlord can get into a lot of shit if they annoy a tenant persistently especially for trivial sh1t like post as they've no right to-there are other ways as stated such as mail forwarding for this

being one month in arrears with a mortgage = being reposessed on a fraudulent mortgage with tnenats small children left homeless

asking if there has been any post = persistent harassment worthy of reporting to the police and subsequent arrest

hyperbolic nonsense

[madasafrog]

We lived at a property where the previous tenants had left substantial debts, and were continuing to run up new ones. You could tell by the sheer volume of post which continued relentlessly.

We wrote "gone away, no longer at this address" on the back en-masse and put maybe 100 of these letters back in the postbox.

The mail kept on coming. Eventually we had debt collectors at the door to whom we handed the new unopened mail.

I rang the Police who did not want to intervene because there was no formal complaint from any lender, without which no offence has been committed: it's just a civil matter between the lenders and the tenants.

However I did ask about opening the letters and manually notifying the lenders in response to which they said that provided I did not retain any of the data, or disclose what was in the letters to anyone else, that was OK.

I did this, rang each one in turn - ranging from £500 credit cards and storecards to tens of thousands for private services which post-dated the end of their tenancy - withheld my number each time and refused to give it (as it would only get shared) and finally the mail stopped. We also put a note on the front door "XXXX does not live here. Please call the letting agent (phone number). Thank you."

Six months after we left we had a call from the Police asking for help with their enquiries into the fraud that had been going on.

On balance: I'd open the letters every time. Sending them back marked "Gone Away" is only more likely to have debt collectors turn up to confirm if you have gone away or not.

Perhaps the biggest farce is that when they arrive, they want you to prove you're not the debtor, and you just want them to go away. They don't have a photo of the debtor, so unless they get the Police involved there's not much they can do to prove or disprove it.

You can hardly compare these two scenarios as similar

[stonethecrows]

being one month in arrears with a mortgage = being reposessed on a fraudulent mortgage with tnenats small children left homeless

asking if there has been any post = persistent harassment worthy of reporting to the police and subsequent arrest

hyperbolic nonsense

Not at all D23-if only it was. Like I said before the law may well be an ass but that's about the size of it. The issue is not nearly so much of the 'months in arrears' as the whole question of whether the mortgage is legit full stop-dont know whats so difficult to grasp about that myself-but that's the way it is. And yes turning up uninvited or announced can constitute harassment especially if it's a recurrent theme like it or lump it that's the law on the matter ask a judge, barrister or other legal eagle in the property profession if you dont want to take my word for it-come to that ask the police, shelter or any of the other organisations out there who will be more than happy to advise.

Edited August 29, 2007 by stonethecrows

[stonethecrows]

You can hardly compare these two scenarios as similar

You can quite easily as it illustrates perfectly one of the many ways property can be used to commit fraud

[Guest d23]

Not at all D23-if only it was. Like I said before the law may well be an ass but that's about the size of it. The issue is not nearly so much of the 'months in arrears' as the whole question of whether the mortgage is legit full stop-dont know whats so difficult to grasp about that myself-but that's the way it is. And yes turning up uninvited or announced can constitute harassment especially if it's a recurrent theme like it or lump it that's the law on the matter ask a judge, barrister or other legal eagle in the property professional if you dont want to take my word for it-come to that ask the police, shelter or any of the other organisations out there who will be more than happy to advise.

someone posted

I would love to see the face of the OP if she calls by and asks if there is any post.

(no mention of persistent harassment there btw) to which you replied

Not nearly as much as Id like to see the look on the landlords face as she got arrested under anti-harrassment legislation for doing so

which i still think is hyped up presumptious boll*cks

I don't need to ask a judge if a Landlord can be arrested under anti harrassment legislation for popping by once and asking if there was any post

If you can find a precedent I'll eat my words but i very much doubt you will.

If we're following the letter of the law to such a fine degree what do you think would happen if the Land Lord reported their tenant for opening up their mail (once 'by mistake')? Especially if the mortgage is legit.

In the real world I think both instances would be an enormous waste of police time after which nothing would happen

[Guest d23]

You can hardly compare these two scenarios as similar

he was drawing parallels between the OP's opening mail on their suspicions re their landlord and opening mail because you suspect that someone is guilty of being a sexually deviant serial killer; on balance that comparison seems reasonable in comparison

[youthoftoday]

Hi gang.

Need advice. We will complete on our STR tomorrow and we took on our 6 month AST today to make moving easier. After check in I was looking through the post already there for me from BT, sky, broadband etc and I found a letter address to the Landlord from Birmingham Midshires. i recognised her name from the AST I signed at the letting agents on Saturday.

This guy signs a contract to rent a house on the Saturday, moves in on Tuesday, finds a letter to the Landlady and immediately jumps to conclusions and then opens the letter. Sounds like a very trusting bloke don't you think?

I'm not sure I believe the scenario either. We are supposed to believe that he's contacted BT, sky, the broadband provider to change address and connect services before the contract has been signed? That doesn't sound a very sensible thing to do really, does it?

Edited August 29, 2007 by youthoftoday

[stonethecrows]

Well done D23 you can now add illiterate to your repertoir. I think you seriously need to get a grip and stop behaving like such a bitter pathetic little troll-whats the matter do you have some kind of inferiority complex or something or are you one of these people that just have to be right even when they're wrong?! I replied with the statement: " Not nearly as much as Id like to see the look on the landlords face as she got arrested under anti-harrassment legislation for doing so" in response to this: "I would love to see the face of the OP if she calls by and asks if there is any post". The latter being a hypothetical statement in itself-at this point NOBODY said anything about the landlord having even visited at all. Therefore you arrive at the pointless and incorrect assumption that I in some way imply that one single visit from a landlord could be deemed harassment and as you can see just here >>>> "QUOTE(stonethecrows @ Aug 29 2007, 04:46 PM)

Not really, take a look at this: http://www.lsesu.com/display/lse/Harassment+by+Landlords

The law may or may not be an ass but a landlord can get into a lot of shit if they annoy a tenant persistently especially for trivial sh1t like post as they've no right to-there are other ways as stated such as mail forwarding for this" where I clarified this further. You THEN reply thus "QUOTE(d23 @ Aug 29 2007, 04:59 PM)

being one month in arrears with a mortgage = being reposessed on a fraudulent mortgage with tnenats small children left homeless

asking if there has been any post = persistent harassment worthy of reporting to the police and subsequent arrest

hyperbolic nonsense"

You need to learn to read never mind study hard to grasp some basic legal fundamentals before you can even begin to make a sensible or constructive comment of any kind to this thread. On that note I would recommend that you first look up sources of law as it would seem that from this>>> "If you can find a precedent I'll eat my words but i very much doubt you will." you really dont have the first effing clue since any first year law student could probably explain to you that case precedent is only ONE of them. If you can get that far maybe THEN you would care to read a little further and look into just how both in civil AND criminal law harassment is an arrestable offence. Firstly in civil which would be most likely to apply in the case of continued visits/drop-bys for mail or just to be in general annoying or for any other reason the tenant deems is not allowing them their legal right to quiet enjoyment of the property an injunction can be imposed-if its breached then perpitrator gets nicked. Secondly in some circumstances like threats of violence or illegal eviction and the like then the police can act as its then criminal harassment-no injunction or anything else for that matter required depending on circumstances.

Now IF you feel there is something Ive missed do enlighten us all with your superior wisdom oh wise one......lmao

Edited August 29, 2007 by stonethecrows

[Guest d23]

I think you seriously need to get a grip and stop behaving like such a bitter pathetic little troll-whats the matter do you have some kind of inferiority complex or something or are you one of these people that just have to be right even when they're wrong?! I replied with the statement: " Not nearly as much as Id like to see the look on the landlords face as she got arrested under anti-harrassment legislation for doing so" in response to this: "I would love to see the face of the OP if she calls by and asks if there is any post". The latter being a hypothetical statement in itself-at this point NOBODY said anything about the landlord having even visited at all. Therefore you arrive at the pointless and incorrect assumption that I in some way imply that one single visit from a landlord could be deemed harassment and as you can see just here >>>> "QUOTE(stonethecrows @ Aug 29 2007, 04:46 PM)

Not really, take a look at this: http://www.lsesu.com/display/lse/Harassment+by+Landlords

The law may or may not be an ass but a landlord can get into a lot of shit if they annoy a tenant persistently especially for trivial sh1t like post as they've no right to-there are other ways as stated such as mail forwarding for this" where I clarified this further. You THEN reply thus "QUOTE(d23 @ Aug 29 2007, 04:59 PM)

being one month in arrears with a mortgage = being reposessed on a fraudulent mortgage with tnenats small children left homeless

asking if there has been any post = persistent harassment worthy of reporting to the police and subsequent arrest

hyperbolic nonsense"

You need to learn to read never mind study hard to grasp some basic legal fundamentals before you can even begin to make a sensible or constructive comment of any kind to this thread. On that note I would recommend that you first look up sources of law as it would seem that from this>>> "If you can find a precedent I'll eat my words but i very much doubt you will." you really dont have the first effing clue since any first year law student could probably explain to you that case precedent is only ONE of them. If you can get that far maybe THEN you would care to read a little further and look into just how both in civil AND criminal law harassment is an arrestable offence. Firstly in civil which would be most likely to apply in the case of continued visits/drop-bys for mail or just to be in general annoying or for any other reason the tenant deems is not allowing them their legal right to quiet enjoyment of the property an injunction can be imposed-if its breached then perpitrator gets nicked. Secondly in some circumstances like threats of violence or illegal eviction and the like then the police can act as its then criminal harassment-no injunction or anything else for that matter required depending on circumstances.

Now IF you feel there is something Ive missed do enlighten us all with your superior wisdom oh wise one......lmao

Well done D23 you can now add illiterate to your repertoir. [sic ]

the above ironic illiterate pot / illiterate kettle moment made me laugh anyway

wow

seems like you need to take a deep breath and chill out, judging by your last garbled and overexcited post, it's almost unreadable (one word you might want to look up btw: formatting).

My point was this whole thread has desended into hyperbolic, over excited nonsense revolving around a whole slew of presumptions

as you rightly say the whole situation was hypothetical; calm down and re read your response to someones hypothetical question as to the the OP's response to the landlord popping by and asking whether there had been any mail (again just popped by, not persistently harrassed; just popped by)

Not nearly as much as Id like to see the look on the landlords face as she got arrested under anti-harrassment legislation for doing so

to me that reads like either you're suggesting the LL could be arrested for any hypothetical 'popping by to ask about mail' whatsoever; either that or you'd just like to see the LL get arrested under any harrassment legislation for some other (as yet unspecified) reason; maybe you just don't like Landlords, I don't know

I'm not arguing law, I'm not qualified to do so and judging by the quality of your writing I'm guessing you're not either; but even if you are you seem to have got carried away and dissapeared up your own fundament with this. In the real world which I presume is what this thread is concerned with there is no way the Landlord is going to be arrested for harrassment (harrassment which is neither mentioned nor suggested by no one else but you by the way; i'm still not sure why you mentioned it or how it was even a tiny bit relevant to this case) for popping by once to collect mail.

feel a bit like this has been done to death tbh; I doubt I'll comment on it again so the floor is now open for you to spit the dummy again and call me a pathetic troll etc etc etc, but I'd hope you'd realise it's all semantics really and not worth losing your temper over

[stonethecrows]

the above ironic illiterate pot / illiterate kettle moment made me laugh anyway

wow

seems like you need to take a deep breath and chill out, judging by your last garbled and overexcited post, it's almost unreadable (one word you might want to look up btw: formatting).

My point was this whole thread has desended into hyperbolic, over excited nonsense revolving around a whole slew of presumptions

as you rightly say the whole situation was hypothetical; calm down and re read your response to someones hypothetical question as to the the OP's response to the landlord popping by and asking whether there had been any mail (again just popped by, not persistently harrassed; just popped by)

Not nearly as much as Id like to see the look on the landlords face as she got arrested under anti-harrassment legislation for doing so

to me that reads like either you're suggesting the LL could be arrested for any hypothetical 'popping by to ask about mail' whatsoever; either that or you'd just like to see the LL get arrested under any harrassment legislation for some other (as yet unspecified) reason; maybe you just don't like Landlords, I don't know

I'm not arguing law, I'm not qualified to do so and judging by the quality of your writing I'm guessing you're not either; but even if you are you seem to have got carried away and dissapeared up your own fundament with this. In the real world which I presume is what this thread is concerned with there is no way the Landlord is going to be arrested for harrassment (harrassment which is neither mentioned nor suggested by no one else but you by the way; i'm still not sure why you mentioned it or how it was even a tiny bit relevant to this case) for popping by once to collect mail.

feel a bit like this has been done to death tbh; I doubt I'll comment on it again so the floor is now open for you to spit the dummy again and call me a pathetic troll etc etc etc, but I'd hope you'd realise it's all semantics really and not worth losing your temper over

Glad it made ya laugh d23-pls see my previous 'tongue in cheek' comment to 'youngpersonwhatever'ewascalled'. As for the formatting bit-agreed its nigh on impossible trying to do it from a mobile-what else can I say really other than blame it on 3 network lol Not sure where the 'losing of tempers' bit comes from tbh maybe it's in the presentation tho i really cant be bothered to edit it all at this time of night so sorry if that's the impression you got-having got in and booted up the laptop though to read it proper like can see why you'd think that lol Anyways agreed lots of the issues here have been done to death-the only reason I mention harassment at all is because I expect to see a WHOLE lot more of it going on and yep this is directly in relation to the work I do at the moment. Sorry it's all in subliminal message format really at this point-Id love to tell you more but I cant at this stage unfortunately. Night night anyhow ppl

[Guest d23]

Glad it made ya laugh d23-pls see my previous 'tongue in cheek' comment to 'youngpersonwhatever'ewascalled'. As for the formatting bit-agreed its nigh on impossible trying to do it from a mobile-what else can I say really other than blame it on 3 network lol Not sure where the 'losing of tempers' bit comes from tbh maybe it's in the presentation tho i really cant be bothered to edit it all at this time of night so sorry if that's the impression you got-having got in and booted up the laptop though to read it proper like can see why you'd think that lol Anyways agreed lots of the issues here have been done to death-the only reason I mention harassment at all is because I expect to see a WHOLE lot more of it going on and yep this is directly in relation to the work I do at the moment. Sorry it's all in subliminal message format really at this point-Id love to tell you more but I cant at this stage unfortunately. Night night anyhow ppl

appreciate the considered reply

I agree with you on the potential for increased LL harrassment in future; luckily my LL seems OK so far, owns the house I live in outright and has done for a long time but there are plenty out there who aren't in his position and are going to try and take out their bad planning / financial mismanagement out on their tenants when things get rough

If you're in any way involved in sticking it to bad LL's then good luck to you; you certainly seem passionate about it

[markyh]

like the property?

if there is no interest at the foreclosure auction, you might pick it up for 50% of the loan

Interesting comment. As I completed yesterday and have £123k in my bank transfering into savings / investemtns today, I could do this in six months time. Property is worth around £240k, so If I could get it for £120k then I would be mortgage free and hold the deeds. Cool.

M