Benjamin Needs To Go

anonguest · November 5, 2023

13 hours ago, MerchantNavy said:

Another israeli strike on a refugee camp.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67324897

I remember how, back in the day, people like you would complain about the police always raiding Irish establishments in predominantly Irish parts of London - as part of actions against Irish republican terrorists. Such terrible bias and prejudice! All those poor innocent Irish who had nothing to do with the terrorists living among them.

IF you're going to hunt down Hamas then you go wherever Hamas may be. We know they hide out among the civilian population. It doesn't give them a 'free pass'. It just reinforces the fact of what utter scum they are.

But, again, you're too stupid to grasp these simple concepts.

Edited November 6, 2023 by anonguest

Arpeggio · November 5, 2023

31 minutes ago, anonguest said:

Flags? Explain please.

Tell me if you spot it later when you've had another look.

anonguest · November 5, 2023

Just now, Arpeggio said:

Tell me if you spot it later when you've had another look.

It's sunday evening. I'm tired. Just tell me please. 😉

What am I supposed to be seeing/not seeing?

Arpeggio · November 5, 2023

13 minutes ago, anonguest said:

It's sunday evening. I'm tired. Just tell me please. 😉

What am I supposed to be seeing/not seeing?

I'll let you sleep.

sexton · November 5, 2023

1 hour ago, anonguest said:

What Haaretz quotes?!

"His voice broke when he remembered his partner, who was besieged in MMD at the time. According to him, only on Monday night and only after the commanders in the field made difficult decisions - including shelling houses on their occupants in order to eliminate the terrorists along with the hostages - did the IDF complete the takeover of the kibbutz The price was terrible: at least 112 Bari people were killed. Others were kidnapped. Yesterday, 11 days after the massacre, the bodies of a mother and her son were discovered in one of the destroyed houses. It is believed that more bodies are still lying in the rubble."

https://archive.md/JtyES#selection-1069.0-1085.62

MerchantNavy · November 6, 2023

South Africa to withdraw diplomats from Israel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world

anonguest · November 7, 2023

14 hours ago, MerchantNavy said:

South Africa to withdraw diplomats from Israel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world

“The South African government has decided to withdraw all its diplomats in Tel Aviv for consultation,” Minister in the Presidency Khumbudzo Ntshavheni said.

South Africa recalls ambassador and diplomatic mission to Israel and accuses it of genocide in Gaza | AP News

Hmmm.... The corrupt, incompetent and racist government of a near third world shithole of a country struggles to decide on what official stance to adopt with the mass murderers in the shithole that is Gaza.

And your point is...?

Or, more pertinently, so what?!

Edited November 7, 2023 by anonguest

jonb2 · November 8, 2023

On 07/11/2023 at 05:05, anonguest said:

“The South African government has decided to withdraw all its diplomats in Tel Aviv for consultation,” Minister in the Presidency Khumbudzo Ntshavheni said.

South Africa recalls ambassador and diplomatic mission to Israel and accuses it of genocide in Gaza | AP News

Hmmm.... The corrupt, incompetent and racist government of a near third world shithole of a country struggles to decide on what official stance to adopt with the mass murderers in the shithole that is Gaza.

And your point is...?

Or, more pertinently, so what?!

It not just them. More to come. Netanyahu is taking Israel into a permanent hell to save his skin.

Nine countries have recalled their ambassadors from Israel due to war on Gaza - YouTube

anonguest · November 8, 2023

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

It not just them. More to come. Netanyahu is taking Israel into a permanent hell to save his skin.

So, you naively believe that IF Netanyahu disappeared in a puff of smoke right now that whoever replaces him will immediately end the war?

Think again.

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

Nine countries have recalled their ambassadors from Israel due to war on Gaza - YouTube

So, apart from South Africa who else has joined in?
Turkey
Honduras
Chile
Jordan
Bahrain
Chad
Colombia

Wow? What a collection of fine and upstanding members of the international community - NOT!
Seriously. You're comparing a modern enlightened educated progressive democracy with high tech economy and public services - that is being forced to defend itself against a psychotically genocidal regime living next door - with these basket case countries?
You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel here and taking the piss if you really think I'm going to pay any attention to lectures in morality from any of these countries!

FFS! Just look at some of them!

CHAD
A basket case of a country. In May 2016, a special court in Senegal convicted Hissène Habré, the former president of Chad, for serious international crimes and sentenced him to life in prison. Habré was convicted of crimes against humanity, war crimes, and torture, including rape and sexual slavery. The verdict was the result of a 25-year campaign by Habré’s victims and their supporters. As of January 2021, the victims of the former Chadian dictator have yet to receive any reparations following the historic 2016 atrocity conviction in Senegal.

HONDURAS
Honduras faces great challenges related to systemic corruption, political interference in the justice system, and human rights violations

BAHRAIN
The Bahraini government has effectively silenced political opposition in the country through political isolation laws that effectively barred members of the political opposition from running in the 2022 parliamentary elections. Independent media has been banned since 2017. Twenty-six Bahrainis remain on death row following manifestly unfair trials, and six people have been sentenced to death since 2017. Authorities have arrested, prosecuted, and harassed rights defenders, journalists, and opposition leaders, including for their social media activity. Bahrain continues to deny access to independent rights monitors and the UN special rapporteur on torture.

JORDAN
Authorities in Jordan are becoming increasingly repressive, quashing dissent by arresting and harassing activists and journalists and using vague and abusive laws to restrict civic space in violation of international legal protections. Weakened social protection net has meant many are unable to afford food, housing or education. Jordan has forcibly deported or threatened to deport some refugees in violation of its obligations under international law, while worsening economic conditions have forced others to return to countries that are not safe.

I'm beginning to think that similar to how the irrational and often hysterical hatred of Donald Trump resulted in the term 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' that there exists 'Israel Derangement Syndrome' - where people have this almost pathological urge to denounce Israel at any opportunity and will resort to any manner of ludicrous means and argument to do so. Your post here, citing these shithole countries, is a perfect example of this syndrome.

Edited November 8, 2023 by anonguest

jonb2 · November 8, 2023

2 hours ago, anonguest said:

So, you naively believe that IF Netanyahu disappeared in a puff of smoke right now that whoever replaces him will immediately end the war?

Think again.

So, you naively believe that IF Yahya Sinwar disappeared in a puff of smoke right now whoever replaces him will immediately end the war?

Think again.

And so it goes. No solution. Forever. And don't give me that sheep shit that an olive farmer or goat herder should go off and build 2000 storey sky-scrapers or start an international galactic bank instead of seeking revenge.

Timeline: Israel and Palestine’s complicated history - Vox
https://www.vox.com/world-politics/23921529/israel-palestine-timeline-gaza-hamas-war-conflict

The evidence is against you. You don't understand humans at all - do you?

Edited November 8, 2023 by jonb2

anonguest · November 8, 2023

5 hours ago, jonb2 said:

So, you naively believe that IF Yahya Sinwar disappeared in a puff of smoke right now whoever replaces him will immediately end the war?

Think again.

I never said or implied that.

The difference is that;

(a) IF you cut off the head of the (Hamas) snake what will likely be left is just a wildly thrashing about, but still dying, body

Kill the 'managers' and you are left with thousands of disorganised Hamas 'grunts'

(b) The will to fight may still be there for them BUT the means to fight will be taken from them (no new materials/resources, etc) -> Easier to kill.

Whereas, remove Netanyahu and you still have an organised government and military machine capable of continuing to pound Hamas into the dust.

Also, don't forget all the other Hamas leadership running things from afar in their luxury Qatar residences and elsewhere. I have no doubt that all of them are dead men walking. Don't be at all surprised to see them one by one being assassinated in the coming weeks/months. The Israelis will probably kill them and anyone remotely connected to them.

5 hours ago, jonb2 said:

And so it goes. No solution. Forever. And don't give me that sheep shit that an olive farmer or goat herder should go off and build 2000 storey sky-scrapers or start an international galactic bank instead of seeking revenge.

Why not?! Aren't you being a bit racist here? Are the Palestinians genetically inferior to you and me?

Give them the money/resources and all it requires is vision, education and hard work.

But, you're right, the Palestinians have shown themselves uniquely incapable of any of these qualities - compared with numerous other peoples around the world who have moved on from their own historical conflicts and prospered.

The fact that they likely won't in a million years be able to rebuild Gaza by themselves is neither here nor there and not my or anyone else's problem - and it certainly does not in any way negate the need to eradicate every single one of the Hamas cockroaches currently hiding underground in tunnels.

Frankly, if it weren't for the complication of the hostages possibly being down there too, I'd see no issue with just pumping hundreds of gallons of some lethal gas into those tunnels to either flush them out or kill them where they are.

5 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Timeline: Israel and Palestine’s complicated history - Vox
https://www.vox.com/world-politics/23921529/israel-palestine-timeline-gaza-hamas-war-conflict

A nice read of a load of historical irrelevances.

5 hours ago, jonb2 said:

The evidence is against you.

On the contrary. Here's the more pertinent history that really matters and which that article conveniently misses out....

1937: Arabs reject the British government Peel Commission to create a Jewish and Arab state.

1947: Arabs reject the UN plan to create a Jewish and Arab state. Wage war against the new nation of Israel - and end up losing more land than the UN plan awarded them.

1967: Israel wins yet another war against its Arab neighbors, conquering Gaza, the West Bank and Sinai in a defensive war. The Arab League declares the "three no's": No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel.
Israel voluntarily hands control of the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism back to the Islamic Waqf, and made it illegal for Jews to pray there.

1979: Israel voluntarily hands the Sinai back to Egypt, originally captured in 1967, in return for peace.

1993: Israel recognizes the sovereignty of the Palestinian Authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the Oslo Accords. Yasser Arafat uses it to support terrorism.

2000: Israel offers Yasser Arafat recognition of a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 94% of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its Capital. Arafat rejects it and launches the Second Intifada. President Clinton has since castigated Arafat and the Palestinians for their stance.

2005: Israel pulls out of the Gaza Strip, dismantles all its settlements, and forces Jews to leave their homes. Palestinians respond by electing Hamas who turn it into a terror state.

2008: Israel offers Mahmoud Abbas once again recognition of a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 94% of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its Capital and even offered to dismantle all their settlements. And once again, the Palestinians reject it.

2010-2021: Hamas launch periodic rocket attacks against the state of Israel and builds tunnels in order to kidnap and murder Jews while using the people of Gaza as human shields against the IDF.

2023: Hamas commits the worst act of mass murder against Jews since the Nazi Holocaust.

5 hours ago, jonb2 said:

You don't understand humans at all - do you?

I understand monsters and stupid people better than you!

I'll keep saying it till my tongue bleeds. The Gazans have had nearly 20 years of de facto independence and billions of dollars and aid given to them. They could have turned the place into the Singapore of the Mediterranean IF they had put their minds to it.

BUT they chose to let historical grievances and irrational religious hatred poison their minds and wallow in self-pity. They chose wrong. And now they are paying the price for it. I said it before and say it again. The Palestinians have shown themselves to be some of the dumbest people on the planet.

Edited November 8, 2023 by anonguest

jonb2 · November 8, 2023

4 hours ago, anonguest said:

I never said or implied that.

The difference is that;

(a) IF you cut of the head of the (Hamas) snake what will likely be left is just a wildly thrashing about, but still dying, body

Kill the 'managers' and you are left with thousands of disorganised Hamas 'grunts'

(b) The will to fight may still be there for them BUT the means to fight will be taken from them (no new materials/resources, etc) -> Easier to kill.

Whereas, remove Netanyahu and you still have an organised government and military machine capable of continuing to pound Hamas into the dust.

Also, don't forget all the other Hamas leadership running things from afar in their luxury Qatar residences and elsewhere. I have no doubt that all of them are dead men walking. Don't be at all surprised to see them one by one being assassinated in the coming weeks/months. The Israelis will probably kill them and anyone remotely connected to them.

Why not? Aren't you being a bit racist here? Are the Palestinians genetically inferior to you and me?

Give them the money/resources and all it requires is education, hard work and dedication.

But, you're right, the Palestinians have shown themselves uniquely incapable of either - compared with numerous other peoples around the world who have moved on from their own historical conflicts.

The fact that they likely won't in a million years be able to rebuild Gaza by themselves is neither here nor there and not my or anyone else's problem - and it certainly does not in any way negate the need to eradicate every single one of the Hamas cockroaches currently hiding underground in tunnels.

Frankly, if it weren't for the complication of the hostages possibly being down there, I'd see no issue with just pumping hundreds of gallons of some lethal gas into those tunnels to either flush them out or kill them where they are.

A nice read of a load of historical irrelevances.

Here's the more pertinent history that really matters and which that article conveniently misses out....

1937: Arabs reject the British government Peel Commission to create a Jewish and Arab state.

1947: Arabs reject the UN plan to create a Jewish and Arab state. Wage war against the new nation of Israel - and end up losing more land than the UN plan awarded them.

1967: Israel wins yet another war against its Arab neighbors, conquering Gaza, the West Bank and Sinai in a defensive war. The Arab League declares the "three no's": No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel.
Israel voluntarily hands control of the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism back to the Islamic Waqf, and made it illegal for Jews to pray there.

1979: Israel voluntarily hands the Sinai back to Egypt, originally captured in 1967, in return for peace.

1993: Israel recognizes the sovereignty of the Palestinian Authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the Oslo Accords. Yasser Arafat uses it to support terrorism.

2000: Israel offers Yasser Arafat recognition of a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 94% of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its Capital. Arafat rejects it and launches the Second Intifada. President Clinton has since castigated the Arafat and the Palestinians for their stance.

2005: Israel pulls out of the Gaza Strip, dismantles all its settlements, and forces Jews to leave their homes. Palestinians respond by electing Hamas who turn it into a terror state.

2008: Israel offers Mahmoud Abbas once again recognition of a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 94% of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its Capital and even offered to dismantle all their settlements. And once again, the Palestinians reject it.

2010-2021: Hamas launch periodic rocket attacks against the state of Israel and builds tunnels in order to kidnap and murder Jews while using the people of Gaza as human shields against the IDF.

2023: Hamas commits the worst act of mass murder against Jews since the Nazi Holocaust.

I understand monsters and stupid people better than you!

I'll keep saying it till my tongue bleeds. The Gazans have had nearly 20 years of de facto independence and billions of dollars and aid given to them. They could have turned the place into the Singapore of the Mediterranean IF they had put their minds to it.

BUT they chose to let historical grievances and irrational religious hatred poison their minds and wallow in self-pity. They chose wrong. And now they are paying the price for it. I said it before and say it again. The Palestinians have shown themselves to be some of the dumbest people on the planet.

Israel has assassinated loads of its Arab enemies. Many from Hamas over the years. And yet here we are again, and again, and again.

You can't grind an ideology, a grievance into the ground with bullets and bombs. It needs a political solution and not one where the other side has been bombed into the ground and hates your guts even more than when it started.

List of Israeli assassinations - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

The thread is titled 'Benjamin must go'. He's corrupt and inept - like all right-wing populists. He's the plug in the wall powering this genocide. It's not about Israel, it's about their leadership. He doesn't give two hoots about the hostages. I heard loads of interviews with ex-IDF soldiers and wiser older Israeli politicians saying the Gaza bombing is a mistake and will only make things worse in the long term, as it always does. One IDF guy said he had been into Gaza on previous duties thinking they could defeat Hamas, only to have it come back stronger. He shielded and fed a Gaza family of 8 after finding them in a dwelling certified as a Hamas den. When he left, the Israeli air-force just levelled their house with them in it. He said the whole village had been cleared and there were no Hamas fighters there. Just a bunch of families, terrified. Now all dead. For what?

Anybody who thinks business as usual is the answer is an idiot. What people find most objectionable is the 'justified' proportionality, always at least ten to one, 5000 Palestinian children already while hiding under the flimsy premise of Hamas using Palestinians as human shields. B_ollocks, they want to raze Gaza to the ground. They've said as much. Nuke it even. Why do they bomb in the south while telling people to go there?

As I said, decades from now there will be no Israel. No Gaza. No West Bank. Just dust and tumbleweed. All because nobody could be bothered to think any differently.

Edited November 8, 2023 by jonb2

anonguest · November 8, 2023

15 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Israel has assassinated loads of its Arab enemies

And Western nations haven't assassinated enemies before?

I see no wrong in a state 'taking out' psychotic nutters who have not only declared an intent to kill you but have already provided ample evidence they would do so given the chance.

There are some people for whom the concept of prison and rehabilitation, as applied to us ordinary peasants, just doesn't work.

The SAS didn't go out of it's way to bring back Jihadi John back to face trial and punishment. It went there to quite rightly kill him.

15 hours ago, jonb2 said:

You can't grind an ideology, a grievance into the ground with bullets and bombs....

One IDF guy said he had been into Gaza on previous duties thinking they could defeat Hamas, only to have it come back stronger

OH YES YOU CAN!

Both involved casualties of innocents along the way. It just requires the stomach and resolve to do it and see it through to the end. We did it with the Nazis and, in more modern times, Islamic State. Sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

I've read these accounts from doubtful former IDF types too. BUT this current Israeli offensive in Gaza is orders of magnitude greater than what Israel has ever done before. Previous campaigns by them were less than half hearted by comparison.

IF you embark on exterminating an infestation of insects and leave more than a handful left then for sure they will grow back. BUT exterminate them completely then there's nothing to grow back. Leave leave just one or two here and there but also clean up the environment too then those few that 'get away' will die out pretty soon after too.

What do I mean by clean up the environment? This is what I mean. You get rid of this poisonous nurturing of the next generation.

I remind you that, a decade ago, when the international coalition finally got its act together they flattened Mosul, in Iraq, killed 85,000 psychotic fundamentalist nutters and definitively wiped out Islamic State completely. Just take a look at what remained of the place after it was literally carpet bombed out of existence. No time wasted on precision targeted bombs.

I don't recall any public protests at all the inevitable wives and children being killed in that carnage. I don't recall seeing any protests at the way those surviving wives (many of whom also participated in IS savagery) and children are to this day still being held like cattle in vast open air prison camps in the Syrian desert. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that those IS nutters were going around kidnapping and beheading innocent Westerners (journalists, aid workers, etc.)?

There's a despicable double standard being acted out in the media and a lot of those brain dead youth/student activist types on these recent public demos against Israel. The rest of the participants are barely disguised Jew hating members of the Muslim community, expressing the irrational bigotry they have been fed by their Imams in mosques here up and down the UK for years now.

Here's some examples of the sort of stuff you won't see on the BBC or Sky News...

This one sums up most of the people on the marches and demos.

She says “you f*cking kike”. She didn’t say ‘Israel’. And she didn’t say ‘Zionists’.
People are now saying what they’ve meant all along - they hate Jews.

There is no reason to think that, this time, once they finally get right down to those wretched tunnels the Israelis will not be able to kill all of Hamas, and those sharing its demented idealogy, in the same way - and then hand back Gaza to the those who have fled south, which Israel is already now announcing.

Israel says it does not intend to 'reoccupy' Gaza or control it for long time (msn.com)

Edited November 9, 2023 by anonguest

anonguest · November 9, 2023

Hamas: "we want to destroy Israel"

The West: "They don't really mean that"

Hamas: "yes we do"

The West: "no you don't"

Hamas: "We slaughtered 1400 Israelis. And we will do it again and again"

The West: "Yeah, but you were forced to do it because of the occupation"

Hamas "No. We do it because they're Jews"

The West: "umm..."

anonguest · November 9, 2023

15 hours ago, jonb2 said:

What people find most objectionable is the 'justified' proportionality, always at least ten to one

Only stupid people. Those who don't understand the true meaning of 'proportionality' in the context of warfare. Far too many people use words in everyday speech they don't even know the meaning of.

Britain suffered approximately 70,000 civilian deaths in WW2. The Germans suffered 2 million+.

Britain suffered 383,000 military deaths and Germany suffered at least 3.7 million.

I never hear anyone protest that we were the bad guys.

War is hell. Even more so if your leaders treat you as expendable.

Edited November 9, 2023 by anonguest

DiggerUK · November 10, 2023

Let us all celebrate the destruction of the existing 'Rules Based World Order' It is plain as a pike staff that nearly the whole world is condemning the actions of The Israeli State. They do have the US with its two aircraft carrier deployments showing its muscle in support, but what can the US do long term? Thankfully I see them capable of doing nothing apart from risk major war or wars.

I shan't be in London tomorrow, but I will be on a local demonstration near to were I live. I urge you all to attend a demonstration on Armistice Day. It is the citizens day to condemn all wars. The state can stick it's state sponsored Remembrance Day..._

anonguest · November 10, 2023

34 minutes ago, DiggerUK said:

I will be on a local demonstration near to were I live. I urge you all to attend a demonstration on Armistice Day

So, regardless of what the cause is, you're going to be on a demonstration deliberately scheduled to clash with Armistice Day?

If so, then you're a selfish heartless pig headed piece of scum.

I hope the Earth opens up and swallows you whole!

Have a nice day.

Edited November 10, 2023 by anonguest

Arpeggio · November 10, 2023

3 hours ago, anonguest said:

So, regardless of what the cause is, you're going to be on a demonstration deliberately scheduled to clash with Armistice Day?

Divide and conquer.

3 hours ago, anonguest said:

If so, then you're a selfish heartless pig headed piece of scum.

I hope the Earth opens up and swallows you whole!

Have a nice day.

You love it.

petetong · November 13, 2023

On 08/11/2023 at 20:32, jonb2 said:

You can't grind an ideology, a grievance into the ground with bullets and bombs. It needs a political solution and not one where the other side has been bombed into the ground and hates your guts even more than when it started.

How do you get a political solution when Hamas's stated aim is the destruction of Israel and annihilation of all jews, and some other aims, which pretty much match ISIS's aims/doctrine ? From what I've read there a have been multiple two state deals offered over the last 70 years and all have been rejected, including by Arafat. It appears there will never be peace whilst you have Hamas and Hezbollah (Iran) there.

Edited November 13, 2023 by petetong

sexton · November 13, 2023

15 hours ago, petetong said:

From what I've read there a have been multiple two state deals offered over the last 70 years and all have been rejected,

All the kind of deal you would get from the Mafia. No real autonomy.

anonguest · November 13, 2023

12 hours ago, sexton said:

All the kind of deal you would get from the Mafia. No real autonomy.

Gaza was given de facto complete autonomy from 2005 - and was gifted (not loaned!) billions of dollars.

Did they use that to grow an economy? To invest in education for the future? Did they do anything creative?

No!

As soon as they got their autonomy they used that to vote for a group committed to the destruction of their neighbour and launch attacks against Israel - and have been doing so ever since.

Elections have consequences. The dumb Gazans have been responsible for their own inexorable decline.

Edited November 14, 2023 by anonguest

jonb2 · November 14, 2023

On 13/11/2023 at 01:01, petetong said:

How do you get a political solution when Hamas's stated aim is the destruction of Israel and annihilation of all jews, and some other aims, which pretty much match ISIS's aims/doctrine ? From what I've read there a have been multiple two state deals offered over the last 70 years and all have been rejected, including by Arafat. It appears there will never be peace whilst you have Hamas and Hezbollah (Iran) there.

Frankly, trying to dissect things. I think my prediction of an eternal conflict is spot-on. The extremists on both sides want it to continue. The tail is wagging the dog.

Two-state solution | Definition, Facts, History, & Map | Britannica
https://www.britannica.com/topic/two-state-solution

Why there can never be a two-state solution | Conflict News | Al Jazeera
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/20/why-there-can-never-be-a-two-state-solution

Israeli–Palestinian peace process - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_peace_process

Israel-Palestine: the real reason there’s still no peace | Israel | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/16/the-real-reason-the-israel-palestine-peace-process-always-fails

The War in Gaza and the Death of the Two-State Solution
https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-gaza-and-death-two-state-solution

History of the Question of Palestine - Question of Palestine
https://www.un.org/unispal/history/

The Israelis will never trust Palestinians and have no nobody with any incentive to stop the killing near government. Hamas is just the same. They deserver each other.

I notice governments round the world are getting a bit nervous of the genocide by association. Just watch a few hours of Al Jazeera to know what is happening in Gaza. Then there's the West Bank deteriorating into another major conflict too.

To those who argue it's the same as ISIS and Al Qaeda. No, it isn't - unlike their recent emergence, this conflict is over 100 years old, without any solution.

Israel's apartheid against Palestinians - Amnesty International
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/

In 1948, Israeli forces drove 750,000 Palestinians out in the Nakba - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2023/11/03/israel-nakba-history-1948/

A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution | HRW
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

Most decent people have an inbuilt sense of injustice and fairness. The core of the calls for a ceasefire is to acknowledge one side is looking at genocide, the other isn't. It's always about the proportionality. The Israeli leadership seem to see Palestinians as Hitler regarded the Jews - sub-human animals. And it shows.

Violence will never solve the 100 year problem. Ever.

Benjamin needs to go.

petetong · November 14, 2023

5 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Frankly, trying to dissect things. I think my prediction of an eternal conflict is spot-on. The extremists on both sides want it to continue. The tail is wagging the dog.

Two-state solution | Definition, Facts, History, & Map | Britannica
https://www.britannica.com/topic/two-state-solution

Why there can never be a two-state solution | Conflict News | Al Jazeera
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/20/why-there-can-never-be-a-two-state-solution

Israeli–Palestinian peace process - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_peace_process

Israel-Palestine: the real reason there’s still no peace | Israel | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/16/the-real-reason-the-israel-palestine-peace-process-always-fails

The War in Gaza and the Death of the Two-State Solution
https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-gaza-and-death-two-state-solution

History of the Question of Palestine - Question of Palestine
https://www.un.org/unispal/history/

The Israelis will never trust Palestinians and have no nobody with any incentive to stop the killing near government. Hamas is just the same. They deserver each other.

I notice governments round the world are getting a bit nervous of the genocide by association. Just watch a few hours of Al Jazeera to know what is happening in Gaza. Then there's the West Bank deteriorating into another major conflict too.

To those who argue it's the same as ISIS and Al Qaeda. No, it isn't - unlike their recent emergence, this conflict is over 100 years old, without any solution.

Israel's apartheid against Palestinians - Amnesty International
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/

In 1948, Israeli forces drove 750,000 Palestinians out in the Nakba - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2023/11/03/israel-nakba-history-1948/

A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution | HRW
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

Most decent people have an inbuilt sense of injustice and fairness. The core of the calls for a ceasefire is to acknowledge one side is looking at genocide, the other isn't. It's always about the proportionality. The Israeli leadership seem to see Palestinians as Hitler regarded the Jews - sub-human animals. And it shows.

Violence will never solve the 100 year problem. Ever.

Benjamin needs to go.

As regards Hamas, who are an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, they have similar beliefs to ISIS etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fxj5XcFVF4

jonb2 · November 15, 2023

14 hours ago, petetong said:

As regards Hamas, who are an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, they have similar beliefs to ISIS etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fxj5XcFVF4

As you can see from my post, I have no truck with Hamas. They should not exist, but neither should the current Fascist genocidal government of Israel. Both being extremist wing-tips.

An Israeli-Arab Lawmaker on the Stifling of Anti-War Voices | TIME
https://time.com/6333939/israeli-arab-lawmaker-aida-touma-sliman-anti-war-gaza/?et_rid=240431980&lctg=240431980

I am trying to make the point before peace is found - both these factions need to be muzzled, chained and kennelled.

It's politically expedient for those seeking justification to paint Hamas as the same as ISIS. But to understand everything from a 'humanity' POV is the way forward. To break the washing machine of death. Nothing else will work

"Many Israelis, seeking to understand the horrors of Oct. 7, have turned to comparing Hamas to ISIS. The hashtag “#HamasisISIS” has trended on social media as Israeli leaders—including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu—have frequently equated the two. But scholars of Islamist movements like myself, as well as counterterrorism officials, have long understood the comparison to be false. As Gershon Baskin, who has been Israel’s lead hostage negotiator with Hamas since 2006, told me recently: “Its acts of terrorism resemble ISIS, but they don’t have the same ideology.”

The first and most important difference is that Hamas is a Palestinian nationalist Islamist movement. That fused, dual identity differentiates it from ISIS, which is a transnational pan-Islamist movement that wants to gather a universal umma, or community of Muslim believers, into an “Islamic state” untethered from any nationalist project. Hamas, on the other hand, has more localized demands: it identifies “liberation of all of Palestine” from what it terms “the Zionist enemy” as its core goal in its 2017 Charter. There is also the inconvenient fact that ISIS “literally views Hamas as apostates” because of its support from Shia Iran, as the Washington Institute for Near East Policy’s Aaron Zelin recently posted on X.

A second key difference is their relative religious extremism. Hamas is religiously conservative, but it does not ruthlessly harass or kill non-Muslims in Gaza simply because of their faith or religious comportment. It tolerates women who don’t wear the hijab, people who sport tattoos, and teenagers who listen to American music. Christians and churches also coexist with Muslims in the Hamas-run enclave. None of this would have been possible under ISIS, a far more religiously extremist organization that tortured and mutilated people to compel their adherence to an ultra-radical version of Islam."

Hamas Is Not ISIS. Here's Why That Matters | TIME
https://time.com/6329776/hamas-isis-gaza/

Edited November 15, 2023 by jonb2

anonguest · November 15, 2023

On 14/11/2023 at 13:24, jonb2 said:

The extremists on both sides want it to continue

Complete and utter horseshit.

The Palestinians have never got over the fact that the Jews, against the odds, 'beat' them in 1948. And rather than accept reality they have, like a bad gambler, being perpetually 'doubling down' on their past mistakes.

The Jews have extended the hand of peaceful coexistence repeatedly and the Palestinians have spurned it repeatedly. I repeat the essential timeline here again: