chronyx Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Unless you are one of the "if it saves one life" anything is worth doing types, you would want to know what is the level of risk you are protecting against. In the case of electricity given that every house should have an RCD protected supply, it is probably so small as to make it not cost effective (not cost effective meaning you could save far more lives if you spent the money elsewhere). RCDs fail, or get bypassed when they nuisance trip. Only compulsory from 2008 onwards for certain circuits (Although fitted as standard a long time before that on some builds*) *If you want to trust a 30 year old RCD still works as well as new that's up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtickle Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 13 hours ago, Bruce Banner said: Rents won't rise immediately, as a direct result of electrical safety certs, but I'm pretty sure that in five years time rents will be higher than they would have been had the new legal requirements not been imposed. No they won't be, as explained ad nauseum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, mrtickle said: No they won't be, as explained ad nauseum. Sorry, I must have missed that. Why will landlords and letting agents not add the cost of mandatory certifications to the rental cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtickle Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Rents are set by the maximum the market will bear based on local wages, and not the landlord's costs. This has been explained to you ad nauseum so please don't pretend it hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, mrtickle said: Rents are set by the maximum the market will bear based on local wages, and not the landlord's costs. This has been explained to you ad nauseum so please don't pretend it hasn't. It has also been explained by me, often. But it's not what people can afford, it's the going market rate for the area. I can afford to pay £10 for a packet of crisps, but I won't if the market rate is 50p. Individual landlords won't get away with charging over the going market rate, but over a period of some years additional costs will find their way into that market rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 32 minutes ago, mrtickle said: Rents are set by the maximum the market will bear based on local wages, and not the landlord's costs. This has been explained to you ad nauseum so please don't pretend it hasn't. I've also explained that electrical test and inspection (And gas, and legionella) is already done as standard by all the agents I know of, at change of tenancy, so it's not a new cost anyway. It seems to be incapable of processing new data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, chronyx said: I've also explained that electrical test and inspection (And gas, and legionella) is already done as standard by all the agents I know of, at change of tenancy, so it's not a new cost anyway. It seems to be incapable of processing new data. Perhaps all the ones you do that particular work for, but I have never received an electrical test and inspection, nor a legionella cert. all of the gas certs I have received expire on the anniversary of the last test, not the start of the tenancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Dorkins said: So did this landlady ever face charges for manslaughter? If not, why not? Seems open and shut to me. Why, there was not requirement to have a check and accidental death was recorded so how could there be a charge of manslaughter. How much would mandatory testing cost and how many lives would it actually save. If we take an estimate of testing requiring say 3m checks a year at say £200 each, that's a £600m a year industry. The only reference I could find was to deaths per year was a second hand reference to an ONS report which stated that deaths at home due to faulty wiring equipment had declined from around 70 in the 1960s to 3 in 2013. If this is true it really is not justified as there are far more effective things you could do with even a tenth of that amount of money.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, chronyx said: You certainly have to watch them. The quotes I recently received for a boiler service varied between £48 and £96. I went for one at £50 because the price was reasonable and he talked sense, not well rehearsed tales of woe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 26 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: Perhaps all the ones you do that particular work for, but I have never received an electrical test and inspection, nor a legionella cert. all of the gas certs I have received expire on the anniversary of the last test, not the start of the tenancy. Yes, and you organised all of that so your tenancy is not like other tenancies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, chronyx said: Yes, and you organised all of that so your tenancy is not like other tenancies. No, I was talking about the certificates I received at the beginning of the tenancy, not the ones I arranged. All were gas only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyboy1973 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 4 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: In the case of electricity given that every house should have an RCD protected supply, it is probably so small as to make it not cost effective (not cost effective meaning you could save far more lives if you spent the money elsewhere). I guess most recent (how recent?) places have them, but plenty of others don't. My Dad still has a good old fashioned fuse box in the cellar, some of which I think you actually have to replace the wire itself. God only knows how much it would cost to bring a place like that up to code. I wonder how far these new regs go? Some older places might be up for ten grand's worth of complete rewire. Likewise the stricter insulation standards coming in for rentals (or are they already here?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said: No, I was talking about the certificates I received at the beginning of the tenancy, not the ones I arranged. All were gas only. I was never aware of a tenant receiving copies of anything. All mine were sent to the agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, chronyx said: I was never aware of a tenant receiving copies of anything. All mine were sent to the agent. I always asked for them so I'd know when the next inspection was due and could make sure the agent had no excuse to enter my home, or give a key to a third party, whilst I was away. If the inspection was due at a time I would be away, I would ask the agent to get it done early and I would pay for the unexpired portion. This, of course, was when the agent, or landlord, was arranging it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said: I guess most recent (how recent?) places have them, but plenty of others don't. My Dad still has a good old fashioned fuse box in the cellar, some of which I think you actually have to replace the wire itself. God only knows how much it would cost to bring a place like that up to code. I wonder how far these new regs go? Some older places might be up for ten grand's worth of complete rewire. Likewise the stricter insulation standards coming in for rentals (or are they already here?). I would support regulation that mandates updating/replacing wiring that does not have RCD protection on all of the circuits or has pre PVC insulation but once that's done its safe enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: I would support regulation that mandates updating/replacing wiring that does not have RCD protection on all of the circuits or has pre PVC insulation but once that's done its safe enough. Can you write to the IET please? Arc fault interrupters are now 'recommended' so bound to become mandatory in the next regs at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, chronyx said: Can you write to the IET please? Arc fault interrupters are now 'recommended' so bound to become mandatory in the next regs at some point. That's interesting. If I can find one of those with integrated RCD, that will fit into my existing consumer box as a direct replacement for the RCD, I might buy one and bung it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koala_bear Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, chronyx said: Can you write to the IET please? Arc fault interrupters are now 'recommended' so bound to become mandatory in the next regs at some point. 1. Is there any evidence they have reduced electrical fires in the US/Canada? 2. What is the comparative rate of fire that might be prevented by AFDDs in 230V installations rather than 120V ones? [Dr Koala Bear BEng MEng CEng] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, koala_bear said: 1. Is there any evidence they have reduced electrical fires in the US/Canada? 2. What is the comparative rate of fire that might be prevented by AFDDs in 230V installations rather than 120V ones? [Dr Koala Bear BEng MEng CEng] I meant to tell them that they've done enough and can now stop Joe Public is happy Up until now they thought a 300mA RCD was suitable for fire protection in agricultural installations (So I assume hay, straw, etc). Brown envelopes from electrical equipment manufacturers? Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koala_bear Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: I would support regulation that mandates updating/replacing wiring that does not have RCD protection on all of the circuits or has pre PVC insulation but once that's done its safe enough. It is considered safer not to have RCD protection on circuits power smoke / fire alarms but apart from that I generally agree. XLPE insulation has much longer lifespan than PVC and might be a better bet given most installations are used beyond the nominal PVC lifespan (conservative). VIR has been gone from new use in over 50 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koala_bear Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, chronyx said: I meant to tell them that they've done enough and can now stop Joe Public is happy Up until now they thought a 300mA RCD was suitable for fire protection in agricultural installations (So I assume hay, straw, etc). Brown envelopes from electrical equipment manufacturers? Who knows. Sounds like nuisance tripping prevention to me! I forget what is safe the cow /horse front rear legs difference as i think that is some where in the mix too! I gave up writing letter/email when they took the brown paper envelopes from the manufacturers to allow plastic consumer units and history has proved me right on that one. AFDDs are pretty waste of time as there are far more effective methods improve electrical safety in virtually all cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, koala_bear said: I forget what is safe the cow /horse front rear legs difference as i think that is some where in the mix too! About 1.5 metres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, koala_bear said: I gave up writing letter/email when they took the brown paper envelopes from the manufacturers to allow plastic consumer units and history has proved me right on that one. AFDDs are pretty waste of time as there are far more effective methods improve electrical safety in virtually all cases. Yeah, probably be back to wood after this round of metal C.U.s for sustainability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bruce Banner said: You certainly have to watch them. The quotes I recently received for a boiler service varied between £48 and £96. I went for one at £50 because the price was reasonable and he talked sense, not well rehearsed tales of woe. Never paid monthly premium for a boiler service.....I have worked it out better off putting the money away would have paid and using it to pay for any repair if need be in the future....local reliable and trustworthy tradesman of course.....many years later not needed, but plenty enough now to pay for it, the sum keeps on growing and the boiler keeps on going. Edit to mention: All homes should have both a smoke detector/s and a carbon monoxide detector if have a gas boiler. Edited January 31, 2019 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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