Fire at Grenfell Tower, London. Not looking good.

[crashmonitor]

3 minutes ago, casual_squash said:

I get the sneaking suspicion they'll be major riots in London again this summer, this could be the trigger. 

Bottom line is the place is too crammed with people if this 1000 dead figure is true. 

You cannot just keep layering people on top of each other in a country with limited resources. Somethings got to snap.  

 

Seems a bit unlikely when there were only 120 apartments. I realise there were a lot of foreign nationals who might have large households.

[casual_squash]

2 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

Seems a bit unlikely when there were only 120 apartments. I realise there were a lot of foreign nationals who might have large households.

This is London we are talking about, where space is at a premium. 

If people are prepared to share a four bed house with 30 other people, then I dare not think how many people squeezed themselves into this residential block. 

[Shrink Proof]

Full public inquiry now ordered by Theresa May, the alleged Prime Minister.

[Compukit UK101]

I wonder if the Grenfell Tower disaster is a Black Swan event (according to the definition popularised by Nicholas Nassim Taleb).

Black swan theory

The black swan theory or theory of black swan events is a metaphor that describes an event that comes as a surprise, has a major effect, and is often inappropriately rationalized after the fact with the benefit of hindsight. The term is based on an ancient saying which presumed black swans did not exist, but the saying was rewritten after black swans were discovered in the wild.

 

[dgul]

38 minutes ago, Compukit UK101 said:

I wonder if the Grenfell Tower disaster is a Black Swan event (according to the definition popularised by Nicholas Nassim Taleb).

Black swan theory

The black swan theory or theory of black swan events is a metaphor that describes an event that comes as a surprise, has a major effect, and is often inappropriately rationalized after the fact with the benefit of hindsight. The term is based on an ancient saying which presumed black swans did not exist, but the saying was rewritten after black swans were discovered in the wild.

 

The fact that 'buildings burning' has happened before would suggest that it can't be.

However, it might end up being the precursor to the black swan.  Of course, I don't know what this is likely to be, because if I did it wouldn't be a black swan.

3 hours ago, casual_squash said:

I get the sneaking suspicion they'll be major riots in London again this summer, this could be the trigger. 

Bottom line is the place is too crammed with people if this 1000 dead figure is true. 

You cannot just keep layering people on top of each other in a country with limited resources. Somethings got to snap.  

I think London is due some serious rioting.  It just needs the right spark.

[knock out johnny]

38 minutes ago, dgul said:

The fact that 'buildings burning' has happened before would suggest that it can't be.

However, it might end up being the precursor to the black swan.  Of course, I don't know what this is likely to be, because if I did it wouldn't be a black swan.

I think London is due some serious rioting.  It just needs the right spark.

Judging by the radio there very much a feeling of them (rich Kensington and chelsea) and us (not rich)

Anger is starting and blame needs to be attributed

If the body count starts to go up significantly I too see riots. It's the poor the black the disenfranchised who are the victims in this one and if the cladding was merely aesthetic so as to not spoil the elites view its going to be ugly

People are examining society's inequalities in a meaningful way - May is being useless as usual, Corbnyn is just doing the right thing on this one. Let this play out and if we get another vote Corbnyn wins it

Black swan? Yep

 

[Errol]

To be fair though, loads of the newer building for rich people have this cladding stuff (or at least appear to) as well.

[casual_squash]

1 hour ago, dgul said:

The fact that 'buildings burning' has happened before would suggest that it can't be.

However, it might end up being the precursor to the black swan.  Of course, I don't know what this is likely to be, because if I did it wouldn't be a black swan.

I think London is due some serious rioting.  It just needs the right spark.

I already thought we reached that tipping point after the election result.

I just can't see London and it's youth voting Labour, only for the Tories to still be in power. All it'll take is a match stick (no pun intended) for it to kick off and this time it would be a lot worse than the last time. 

I also think Corbyn and Momentum are going to stir that pot hugely now. I can see it coming a mile off. They have already started with this event and I also think if he continues to do this Corbyns going to find himself in an accident. 

 

[debtlessmanc]

21 minutes ago, casual_squash said:

I already thought we reached that tipping point after the election result.

I just can't see London and it's youth voting Labour, only for the Tories to still be in power. All it'll take is a match stick (no pun intended) for it to kick off and this time it would be a lot worse than the last time. 

I also think Corbyn and Momentum are going to stir that pot hugely now. I can see it coming a mile off. They have already started with this event and I also think if he continues to do this Corbyns going to find himself in an accident. 

 

Daily Wail reporting that Corbyn has been telling survivors that the rich folks places in kensington should be requisitioned to house them. That is a really dangerous thing to say in the situation (if he did)

[knock out johnny]

1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

Daily Wail reporting that Corbyn has been telling survivors that the rich folks places in kensington should be requisitioned to house them. That is a really dangerous thing to say in the situation (if he did)

I heard same on the radio

That would goose the london property market for foreign investors if they say property rights being inpinged 

[knock out johnny]

1 hour ago, casual_squash said:

I already thought we reached that tipping point after the election result.

I just can't see London and it's youth voting Labour, only for the Tories to still be in power. All it'll take is a match stick (no pun intended) for it to kick off and this time it would be a lot worse than the last time. 

I also think Corbyn and Momentum are going to stir that pot hugely now. I can see it coming a mile off. They have already started with this event and I also think if he continues to do this Corbyns going to find himself in an accident. 

 

I think that's why they are going to drip feed the fatalities over the summer

Can you imagine an announcement of 150+ dead and pictures of predominantly black and ethnic minority faces plastered across the papers one hot summer's afternoon?

Too much tin-foil hat?

[Flopsy]

BBC interview earlier today. Woman from the area repeating the fear that this was somehow a revenge attack for "London Bridge". 

[knock out johnny]

Lily Allen kicking up a stink on Channel 4 interview just now

And I agree with her

[debtlessmanc]

18 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

Lily Allen kicking up a stink on Channel 4 interview just now

And I agree with her

is she opening her doors to the homeless then? i have a colleague who is a SJW  always posting on FB about the plight of refugees etc. He has a house in kensington and he is currently living most of his time in Switzerland after his wife got job there (megabucks) wonder how he would feel about his house being requisitoned?

This country has gone nuts, i am not a fan of mass immigration but if you are going to let 0.5M a year in you have to build the f*****g houses. if you don't want to dig up the green belt, then don't let them in, its a simple choice.

[debtlessmanc]

39 minutes ago, Flopsy said:

BBC interview earlier today. Woman from the area repeating the fear that this was somehow a revenge attack for "London Bridge". 

The people of that religion are (in my direct experience) often very paranoid and partial to full blown conspiracy theories, the inventor of the religion was himself very partial to these personality defects. doesnt surprise me in the least, it will get worse. Perhaps surprisingly quickly as others have said here.

[knock out johnny]

7 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

is she opening her doors to the homeless then? i have a colleague who is a SJW  always posting on FB about the plight of refugees etc. He has a house in kensington and he is currently living most of his time in Switzerland after his wife got job there (megabucks) wonder how he would feel about his house being requisitoned?

This country has gone nuts, i am not a fan of mass immigration but if you are going to let 0.5M a year in you have to build the f*****g houses. if you don't want to dig up the green belt, then don't let them in, its a simple choice.

I agree with you too,

but I wasn't expecting straw man from you

What lily Allen was saying needed saying - she was calling out the 71 Conservative landlord rentier politicians who voted against the Human habitation act (or whatever it's called). Whether she invites people into her home or not does not negate what she was saying

[debtlessmanc]

5 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

I agree with you too,

but I wasn't expecting straw man from you

What lily Allen was saying needed saying - she was calling out the 71 Conservative landlord rentier politicians who voted against the Human habitation act (or whatever it's called). Whether she invites people into her home or not does not negate what she was saying

Sorry i see a connection between rentier MPs and their mates, poor housing standards and immigration (the latter is a factor, perhaps not the dominant one). The people who have died will predominantly be immigrants or their children. as to the tories - Don't forget it was labour MPs who were claiming expenses for non-existent mortgages. I dont have any confidence in any of the political classes in this country.

 

edit to add: my wife is is the daughter of a former labour MP, she hates the political classes too, she says that she grew up without a father, someone who was far more concerned about his constituents then his own family.

[knock out johnny]

1 minute ago, debtlessmanc said:

Sorry i see a connection between rentier MPs and their mates, poor housing standards and immigration (the latter is a factor, perhaps not the dominant one). The people who have died will predominantly be immigrants or their children. as to the tories - Don't forget it was labour MPs who were claiming expenses for non-existent mortgages. I dont have any confidence in any of the political classes in this country.

Fair enough if that's how you feel about politicians, but don't try and dismiss Lily Allen's comments by conflating it with bent expenses claims from labour mps (which although reprehensible is totally unrelated)

 

Blimey, it show the topsy-turvey world we're in when I'm having to defend Lily Allen!

[stormymonday_2011]

4 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

Judging by the radio there very much a feeling of them (rich Kensington and chelsea) and us (not rich)

Anger is starting and blame needs to be attributed

If the body count starts to go up significantly I too see riots. It's the poor the black the disenfranchised who are the victims in this one and if the cladding was merely aesthetic so as to not spoil the elites view its going to be ugly

People are examining society's inequalities in a meaningful way - May is being useless as usual, Corbnyn is just doing the right thing on this one. Let this play out and if we get another vote Corbnyn wins it

Black swan? Yep

 

The rich in Kensington and Chelsea are likely to be as ethnically diverse as the residents of Grenfall Towers if not more so. Basically Prime Central London property is is where some of the worlds elite like to park their loot.  Foreign owners accounted for 20% of all property purchases in the borough in 2014

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/05/panama-papers-world-leaders-tycoons-secret-property-empires

http://uk.businessinsider.com/london-map-of-property-owned-by-foreigners-2015-9

So not really typical of Mrs Mays voters in Maidstone

[casual_squash]

4 minutes ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

The rich in Kensington and Chelsea are likely to be as ethnically diverse as the residents of Grenfall Towers if not more so. Basically Prime Central London property is is where some of the worlds elite like to park their loot.  Foreign owners accounted for 20% of all property purchases in the borough in 2014

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/05/panama-papers-world-leaders-tycoons-secret-property-empires

So not really typical of Mrs Mays voters in Maidstone

The naivety over Corbyn here is unreal. Vote for a communist,  you get a communist. 

He's not coming across statesman like to me...he's a chancer and is showing signs of saying and doing anything to rouse the rabble for that chance of power. Runs down to Kensington, gives out hugs to the homeless and spouts his Marxism about seizing property. 

There's ways and means of controlling property bubbles, marxism isn't it. 

He's coy though I'll give him that. Wrong footing May every step but it's a case of careful what you wish for. 

He may not just want a house price crash, he wants your house along with it to house his immigrant voters friends. 

[debtlessmanc]

45 minutes ago, casual_squash said:

The naivety over Corbyn here is unreal. Vote for a communist,  you get a communist. 

He's not coming across statesman like to me...he's a chancer and is showing signs of saying and doing anything to rouse the rabble for that chance of power. Runs down to Kensington, gives out hugs to the homeless and spouts his Marxism about seizing property. 

There's ways and means of controlling property bubbles, marxism isn't it. 

He's coy though I'll give him that. Wrong footing May every step but it's a case of careful what you wish for. 

He may not just want a house price crash, he wants your house along with it to house his immigrant voters friends. 

Indeed- typical far left, the solution to the problem is to seize random persons assets and give them to his friends/voters. The guy would bring us to civil war within a year or two and then would expect the squaddies he hates so much to protect him. my opinion...

[stormymonday_2011]

53 minutes ago, casual_squash said:

The naivety over Corbyn here is unreal. Vote for a communist,  you get a communist. 

He's not coming across statesman like to me...he's a chancer and is showing signs of saying and doing anything to rouse the rabble for that chance of power. Runs down to Kensington, gives out hugs to the homeless and spouts his Marxism about seizing property. 

There's ways and means of controlling property bubbles, marxism isn't it. 

He's coy though I'll give him that. Wrong footing May every step but it's a case of careful what you wish for. 

He may not just want a house price crash, he wants your house along with it to house his immigrant voters friends. 

I am quite happy for him to seize the property of the various dictators and gangsters who have parked their loot in Kensington but I suspect he may need a lot of 'protection' if he does. 

 

[t1234]

Theres a huge amount of anger around and rightly so. All those deaths were avoidable. Its all about money, all about profit. The end point of this deregulation and greedy country we have become. Makes me livid.

Corbyn is trying to change this and he is by no means perfect but the best chance of getting back to a more sensible country where evey question is not anwered by 'how can we afford it ?'. Sixth richest country in the world don't forget.

Pandering to the Saudis who fund the extremism which causes our countrymen to be killed in our streets. Scared of impacting the building trade and landlords profit so unwilling to implement modern safety standards.

Makes me fume

 

[LC1]

15 minutes ago, t1234 said:

Theres a huge amount of anger around and rightly so. All those deaths were avoidable. Its all about money, all about profit. The end point of this deregulation and greedy country we have become. Makes me livid

.

.

Pandering to the Saudis who fund the extremism which causes our countrymen to be killed in our streets. Scared of impacting the building trade and landlords profit so unwilling to implement modern safety standards.

Makes me fume

Sickening, isn't it?

And that £10 million facelift - taxpayer money presumbly? A kickback to builder/developer chums who kindly donated to the cause perchance? 

[stormymonday_2011]

12 minutes ago, t1234 said:

Theres a huge amount of anger around and rightly so. All those deaths were avoidable. Its all about money, all about profit. The end point of this deregulation and greedy country we have become. Makes me livid.

Corbyn is trying to change this and he is by no means perfect but the best chance of getting back to a more sensible country where evey question is not anwered by 'how can we afford it ?'. Sixth richest country in the world don't forget.

Pandering to the Saudis who fund the extremism which causes our countrymen to be killed in our streets. Scared of impacting the building trade and landlords profit so unwilling to implement modern safety standards.

Makes me fume

 

So what's new.

The list is endless and goes back decades.

Aberfan

Hillsborough

Herald of Free Enterprise

Bradford City Football Fire

Kings Cross Fire

Marchioness Disaster

Piper Alpha

Approximately 700 deaths  on that list

And that does not include terrorist events like Lockerbie .

No group of victims could have had shittier treatment than the people of Aberfan received at the hands of the NCB and the Wilson government