SJW meltdown

[canbuywontbuy]

Just now, One-percent said:

Disagree, see my second link...

Please show me in ANY of your links where they have proof that in like-for-like jobs, women are paid less than men.  As I've said already, this is ILLEGAL. 

[One-percent]

4 minutes ago, canbuywontbuy said:

Please show me in ANY of your links where they have proof that in like-for-like jobs, women are paid less than men.  As I've said already, this is ILLEGAL. 

From the second link:

At nearly two-thirds (132 out of 203) of the English further education colleges that provided data to UCU, male lecturers are paid on average £1,000 more than women. Kirklees College in Yorkshire topped the chart of English colleges, paying female lecturers an average £5,959 less than their male colleagues - a pay gap of 19.3%. In the ten worst offending colleges, the pay gap between the average pay for women and men is greater than 8%.

And from the same link:

In higher education, the average shortfall faced by female academics was £6,103 a year. According to the union's data, just eight higher education institutions paid women equally or more than men. At 154 institutions, women are paid less.

Again from the same link:

The institution with the largest gender pay gap amongst professors was City University in London where female professors earned an average £15,992 less than their male colleagues - a pay gap of 16.4%. Bangor University in Wales had the most unequal pay amongst academic-related staff, with women earning an average £3,355 less than men - a pay gap of 7.9%

[Frank Hovis]

13 minutes ago, One-percent said:

It may be the case in your field but it is not in mine.  

For example, the women in higher roles (professorship) is a lot less than men

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/gender-survey-of-uk-professoriate-2013/2004766.article

and there does seem to be a significant difference in pay between men and women who hold the same job roles

https://www.ucu.org.uk/article/8130/UCU-names-and-shames-colleges-and-universities-that-hold-down-womens-pay?list=1676

 

I only know where I've worked and in in my last ten years' jobs there are more women than men in senior roles and there is certainly no pay discrimination. 

The clear exception was when I worked in the City but this was twenty years ago. There were very few women in senior roles and those that were there were probably underpaid.  This may no longer be the case owing to time and distance.

[stormymonday_2011]

41 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Some feminists...  all I would argue for is equality, nothing more and nothing less.  It is within living memory that once married, a woman had to give up their job.  It was written into the contract.  Women still earn less than men for comparative work even though the equal pay act was introduced in the 70s. I feel with certain religions becoming more prevalent, there is a danger that hard won equality will go backwards. 

There are sjws in every movement and cause which certainly doesn't help.  What surprises me greatly is the deafening silence from so-called feminists about the misogyny central to certain religious beliefs.   

Feminism like so much of the politics of the left has essentially been diverted into middle class special pleading and the wastelands of identity and sexual politics. It has benefited educated women from  more prosperous families while leaving their more proletarian sisters struggling to look after families while working in low paid jobs. The fact the latter are the main group who still suffer worse pay for doing the same work as men is a clear sign of failure but instead of making such issues the centre piece of their cause many feminists like Labour politicians prefer to use the travails of the poor as an excuse to pursue their own particularist agendas 

[canbuywontbuy]

Just to be clear here, since at least 1970, the government have codified into law equal pay protection for men and women : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_1970

When the government talk about a wage gap, it isn't about employers breaking the aforementioned law.  It's about an aggregate wage gap between men and women, based on circumstances, not discrimination. I can accept if a feminist says "we need to change how we live - we need more guys looking after children so women can continue their career unhindered" - more power to you if you want that change.  But don't tell me the wage gap is because of some conspiracy that employers simply (for no reason at all other than....what, misogyny?!) want to pay women less.  That is just stupid.  And if you DO believe that, then answer this question: why don't employers just go the whole hog and employ only women, since they're cheaper in like-for-like jobs? They're already breaking the law, right? Might as well go the whole hog!).  Oh, and if you're an employer, and you arbitrarily decide to pay a woman less than a man for the exact same role, don't you think it's easy for your employers to find this out? They just compare wage slips, and .... et voila, you find yourself in court. 

[One-percent]

5 minutes ago, canbuywontbuy said:

Just to be clear here, since at least 1970, the government have codified into law equal pay protection for men and women : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_1970

When the government talk about a wage gap, it isn't about employers breaking the aforementioned law.  It's about an aggregate wage gap between men and women, based on circumstances, not discrimination. I can accept if a feminist says "we need to change how we live - we need more guys looking after children so women can continue their career unhindered" - more power to you if you want that change.  But don't tell me the wage gap is because of some conspiracy that employers simply (for no reason at all other than....what, misogyny?!) want to pay women less.  That is just stupid.  And if you DO believe that, then answer this question: why don't employers just go the whole hog and employ only women, since they're cheaper in like-for-like jobs? They're already breaking the law, right? Might as well go the whole hog!).  Oh, and if you're an employer, and you arbitrarily decide to pay a woman less than a man for the exact same role, don't you think it's easy for your employers to find this out? They just compare wage slips, and .... et voila, you find yourself in court. 

Another example of gender bias:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/01/11/new-analysis-offers-more-evidence-against-student-evaluations-teaching

to note, I'm not an out and out sjw feminatzi and so I'm going to leave it here to join my mates in the virtual off topic pub. 

[canbuywontbuy]

11 minutes ago, One-percent said:

From the second link:

At nearly two-thirds (132 out of 203) of the English further education colleges that provided data to UCU, male lecturers are paid on average £1,000 more than women. Kirklees College in Yorkshire topped the chart of English colleges, paying female lecturers an average £5,959 less than their male colleagues - a pay gap of 19.3%. In the ten worst offending colleges, the pay gap between the average pay for women and men is greater than 8%.

And from the same link:

In higher education, the average shortfall faced by female academics was £6,103 a year. According to the union's data, just eight higher education institutions paid women equally or more than men. At 154 institutions, women are paid less.

Again from the same link:

The institution with the largest gender pay gap amongst professors was City University in London where female professors earned an average £15,992 less than their male colleagues - a pay gap of 16.4%. Bangor University in Wales had the most unequal pay amongst academic-related staff, with women earning an average £3,355 less than men - a pay gap of 7.9%

Not all lecturers are paid the same. It's not some fixed salary.  Male lecturers are paid differently from other male lecturers depending on various factors such as experience, subject taught, hours worked! Can I just repeat: it's illegal to pay a person (man or woman) LESS than their counterparts for the same job, based on their gender (paying them less "coz you're a woman").  ILLEGAL.  So you're saying colleges and universities are - in plain sight - conducting illegal activities - breaking the law, as highlighted by the government no less! So I take it these educational institutions are going through various court cases now, right? Ah.....they are not.  They have not broken the law.  Because no woman is discriminated against.  It's down to their choices.

[stormymonday_2011]

28 minutes ago, canbuywontbuy said:

Just to be clear here, since at least 1970, the government have codified into law equal pay protection for men and women : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_1970

When the government talk about a wage gap, it isn't about employers breaking the aforementioned law.  It's about an aggregate wage gap between men and women, based on circumstances, not discrimination. I can accept if a feminist says "we need to change how we live - we need more guys looking after children so women can continue their career unhindered" - more power to you if you want that change.  But don't tell me the wage gap is because of some conspiracy that employers simply (for no reason at all other than....what, misogyny?!) want to pay women less.  That is just stupid.  And if you DO believe that, then answer this question: why don't employers just go the whole hog and employ only women, since they're cheaper in like-for-like jobs? They're already breaking the law, right? Might as well go the whole hog!).  Oh, and if you're an employer, and you arbitrarily decide to pay a woman less than a man for the exact same role, don't you think it's easy for your employers to find this out? They just compare wage slips, and .... et voila, you find yourself in court. 

Women bear most of the child rearing responsibilities in families even in this supposedly age of equality. This means they often have interrupted careers and are more often employed in part time positions. That inevitably impacts their career prospects and their earning potential. It is also the reason why employers have historically preferred to employ men than women in certain roles and why the former over time have earned more money than the latter. If men were regularly taking time off to have kids or to care for them then they would find themselves in the same position. The fact women rather than men are expected to do most of the child care was still reflected in the differences between maternity and paternity leave and pay until recently. So the fact is when it comes to legislation about leave and childcare which is the biggest influence on womens earnings the two sexes were not treated the same.

In fact there is a fair bit of evidence to suggest that the more parental leave women get in law in a country  the bigger the gap in earnings between them and men

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/20/the-link-between-parental-leave-and-the-gender-pay-gap/

Shared parental leave introduced recently where men end up holding the baby more often might change that situation. Of course, how many men really want to take up that option remains to be seen.

[canbuywontbuy]

3 minutes ago, One-percent said:

to note, I'm not an out and out sjw feminatzi and so I'm going to leave it here to join my mates in the virtual off topic pub. 

Fair enough, but all your arguments mirror the mainstream feminist lies.  You never answered my question either : why don't employers just hire women if they are cheaper than hiring men? I get that you think that employers hate women, but they must like them for the cheap pay, right? I mean, in a funny way, they must hate men for being so expensive to hire.  Why don't they just hire women? 

[canbuywontbuy]

5 minutes ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

Women bear most of the child rearing responsibilities in families even in this supposedly age of equality. This means they often have interrupted careers and are more often employed in part time positions. That inevitably impacts their career prospects and their earning potential. It is also the reason why employers have historically proffered to employ men than women in certain roles and why the former over time have earned more money than the latter. If men were regularly taking time off to have kids or to care for them then they would find themselves in the same position. The fact women rather than men are expected to do most of the child care is still reflected in the differences between maternity and paternity leave and pay. So the fact is when it comes to childcare which is the biggest influence on womens earnings the two sexes are not treated the same.

This is the reality.  This is one of the major reasons why a wage gap exists.  It's illegal to pay a woman less than a man in a like-for-like role (or indeed, pay a man less than a woman).  This lie put forward by (the majority of ) feminists is that women are paid less than men in like-for-like roles.  One-percent's links don't show this is the case.  It's illegal to pay anyone less than another person in a like-for-like role based on their sex.   If feminists want to shape how society operates, more power to them.   If they want to promote more fathers taking paternity leave, of course they are entitled to push for that.  But don't tell lies about how the wage gap exists.  That it's some nefarious decision made by employers to simply pay a woman less than a man in a like-for-like role "because she's a woman".  This is what gives feminists a bad name.

[goldbug9999]

1 hour ago, One-percent said:

There are a lot of studies that show women are not afforded the same opportunities in the workplace.  

I call ******** on these studies.

I've never seen even the tiniest hint that women are disadvantaged in any way in the workplace in 30 years of working for dozens of companies in various industries. 

If someone wants more money they need to negotiate better man woman or otherwise.

[canbuywontbuy]

Another thought is .... if you're one of those women-hating employers, and you only tolerated women by paying them less, then if you hired both men and women in like-for-like jobs, it would be obvious based on pay cheques that you were discriminating based on gender (would you trust your accountant not to blow the whistle, especially if she was female, whom you're likely to hire because she's cheaper!).  So you'd have to go for women-only staff.  Not just because they're cheaper, but because there's literally no comparison between male and female salaries.  Yeah....right.

[whitevanman]

Women in their 20s are now earning more than men in their 20s. That reverses over 30 when men earn more. The Guardian article on the subject blames discrimination against women in senior management roles. I'm quite sure they won't be happy until women earn more across the board and men are driven into the dirt from wherest they came.

[The XYY Man]

There has been no bias against women this country for a least twenty-five years.

The sewing-machinists who went on strike for equal pay at Ford's Dagenham plant back in the late 60s were true feminists.

The wives of striking coal-miners in 1984 were true feminists.

The current shoddy crowd of fat, tattooed, nose-pierced gimps are the antithesis of anything truly feminist, or indeed feminine.

Ladies - you should be ashamed of yourselves...

 

 

XYY

                                                                                                               

The dog's kennel is not the place to keep a sausage - Danish proverb

 

 

 

 

 

 

[One-percent]

3 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

There has been no bias against women this country for a least twenty-five years.

The sewing-machinists who went on strike for equal pay at Ford's Dagenham plant back in the late 60s were true feminists.

The wives of striking coal-miners in 1984 were true feminists.

The current shoddy crowd of fat, tattooed, nose-pierced gimps are the antithesis of anything truly feminist, or indeed feminine.

Ladies - you should be ashamed of yourselves...

 

 

XYY

 

                                                                                                               

 

The dog's kennel is not the place to keep a sausage - Danish proverb

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I liked that film.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Dagenham

a real good time, feel good portrayal of eastenders in the sticks of Essex.  

[The XYY Man]

4 minutes ago, One-percent said:

I liked that film.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Dagenham

a real good time, feel good portrayal of eastenders in the sticks of Essex.  

Top women them Dagenham lasses.

I don't think they would have tolerated someone like that Triggleypuff harridan in their social-circle...

 

XYY

                                                                                                               

The dog's kennel is not the place to keep a sausage - Danish proverb

[One-percent]

1 minute ago, The XYY Man said:

Top women them Dagenham lasses.

I don't think they would have tolerated someone like that Triggleypuff harridan in their social-circle...

 

XYY

 

                                                                                                               

 

The dog's kennel is not the place to keep a sausage - Danish proverb

 

I don't think they would even now  

Driving past that Dagenham site ii is a sad picture of desolation now 

[canbuywontbuy]

21 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

There has been no bias against women this country for a least twenty-five years.

The sewing-machinists who went on strike for equal pay at Ford's Dagenham plant back in the late 60s were true feminists.

The wives of striking coal-miners in 1984 were true feminists.

The current shoddy crowd of fat, tattooed, nose-pierced gimps are the antithesis of anything truly feminist, or indeed feminine.

Ladies - you should be ashamed of yourselves...

This is it.  Feminism has a role to play, but if you base anything on lies and distortions and it can't bear the light of any kind of scrutiny, then it will get called out as a sham.  I notice this thread has taken a typical turn in these types of debates (feminist claim, claim scrutinised, crickets).

[Sandwiches33]

I suggest you listen/read a woman called erin pizzey who not only "invented " the shelters for battered spouses by taking over abandoned buildings without council permission she was originally a feminist who left the organisation. She is a truly amazing woman but you will never see her on the BBC becuase she is blacklisted becuase she dared to tell the truth on abuse in relationships. She has some very interesting things to say regards feminism.

[whitevanman]

PC brigade declare the end of mankind: University bans lecturers from using series of phrases that could be deemed sexist  

The alternatives suggested don't have the same meanings. They are culling the English language. Who do they think they are?

[canbuywontbuy]

4 hours ago, hotairmail said:

There are a number of cuts that show different groups are paid less for equivalent work for no apparent explanation. Recent research showed class was important too...For the same jobs....

https://www.ft.com/content/8001d074-dcc9-11e6-86ac-f253db7791c6

How social class can affect your pay

Professionals from elite backgrounds earn more than peers from working-class families

A new paper, by Professor Daniel Laurison of Swarthmore College in Pennsylvania and Professor Sam Friedman of the London School of Economics, has identified a “class ceiling”. The researchers found highly qualified employees in the City of London and elite professions were paid less according to their social background.

I couldn't read the article, but I'm guessing the "class ceiling" is down to top-tier university degree holders getting the better jobs than if you went to Sheffield or Hull - through networking and/or perception of such top-tier educational institutions.   Equating this to some conspiracy of male employers not paying female employees as much as male employees is ridiculous though.  Again, if the pay gap is due to this conspiracy, then hundreds of thousands (millions?) of employers are breaking the law - and again, why don't they just hire females if they are cheaper to hire? Employers will always take the cheaper option, right? Why are they hiring expensive male employees?

[SarahBell]

10 hours ago, Sandwiches33 said:

I suggest you listen/read a woman called erin pizzey who not only "invented " the shelters for battered spouses by taking over abandoned buildings without council permission she was originally a feminist who left the organisation. She is a truly amazing woman but you will never see her on the BBC becuase she is blacklisted becuase she dared to tell the truth on abuse in relationships. She has some very interesting things to say regards feminism.

https://norskgoy.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/erinpizzey_pronetoviolence.pdf

We have talked about her before.

[The Masked Tulip]

12 hours ago, Sandwiches33 said:

I suggest you listen/read a woman called erin pizzey who not only "invented " the shelters for battered spouses by taking over abandoned buildings without council permission she was originally a feminist who left the organisation. She is a truly amazing woman but you will never see her on the BBC becuase she is blacklisted becuase she dared to tell the truth on abuse in relationships. She has some very interesting things to say regards feminism.

 

I went on a POF date several years ago from a lady who is quite high up in a Welsh Women's shelter organisation - something I did not know before going on the day, otherwise I would not have gone. She came across as basically a hostile person. Drank and smoked like a trooper. Overweight. I decided to be polite, spend an hour or so in the pub with her and then never see her again.

But she began to open up to me. Firstly about how miserable her life was and how much she hated her job - very stressful, very political - but went on to say how even she was horrified by some of the feminists in the Women's movement in Wales. She said that she felt that some of them were men-haters. She told me of one refuge that she avoided visiting because it was so anti-male.

Talking with her she was clearly wrapped up in, working with and connected with the politicals of Wales and its politicians. The sort of stuff that has its own language and which has given us mass immigration, feminists defending burkas and FGM. Basically, that twisted form of cultural marxism which has wrecked the UK and the West.

I ended up feeling some pity for her whilst feeling that she had made her own bed and, worse for most of us, was helping to create the hellish country that the UK seems to be becoming. She seemed to be in a mess - the chain-smoking, the drinking, the eating of junk food was shocking to look at.

But someone inside there seemed to a slow realisation that her entire belief system combined with her job had made her deeply unhappy, and had resulted in her unhealthy lfestyle, yet she didn't have the courage to change. Could not change as she was in a job that required 100% obedience to the ideology.

 

 

[LiveinHope]

11 hours ago, whitevanman said:

PC brigade declare the end of mankind: University bans lecturers from using series of phrases that could be deemed sexist  

The alternatives suggested don't have the same meanings. They are culling the English language. Who do they think they are?

I think many would agree with the PC 'Approved Alternative' for Housewife

Housewife = Consumer

[Byron]

No, spender-in-chief