stuckin2up2down Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I'm trying on the website front. Covering: - Earning more - Living well below your means - Investing including a dividend income stream so I don't have to sell down assets - Minimising expenses - Minimising taxes Been working towards early retirement since 2007 and at the blog since 2009. Very few interested with a readership of a only a few thousand a week. Just get a vine to go viral and it will drive alot of traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I admire your plan and sticking to your targets. The only downside - and this is a huge one - is nature doesn't agree with your plan and sends you on your way early. With you sitting there thinking why the ****** didn't I just spend all the money when I had the chance. Without hindsight its impossible to know. However I know of a few people who have followed this plan and had it ripped from them with a couple of months notice. Planned for 30 years - got 3 months. No 'right' or 'wrong' answer to this IMO. Agree with you on the no right or wrong answer. Of course it's personal choice. This is how I think about it. I started at age 35 which gives me an average life expectancy of circa 80 years. I'm now 43 and am FI and will FIRE at 44. At age 35 I had 2 options: - keep doing what I was doing which would have meant 33 more years of hard graft (maybe a few less with a small pension and provided the State Pension goal posts don't get moved again which is highly likely) and 12 years of doing what I wanted when I wanted it. - take the route I took which was 9 years of hard graft (plus one unnecessary extra to make it 10) which gives me 36 years of doing what I want. Option 1 is a 3:1 ratio and option 2 is 1:4 ratio. The second route of course required me to work harder (that was a negative), learn what brought value to me/my family and only spend on that (which was a positive) and learn about basic personal finance (a massive positive as that will now be with me for the rest of my life, or at least until I lose my marbles) but those ratios look favourable to me. Of course I could get hit by a bus this afternoon but I don't think planning to averages is so wrong and I'm very happy I did what I did. Walking into work knowing you can speak freely and also knowing that if your job is outsourced/made redundant there is zero ramifications is also extremely liberating before I even get to FIRE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Just get a vine to go viral and it will drive alot of traffic. To be honest I'm not looking for traffic. What I'm looking for is like minded people to learn from and interact with. The blog also keeps me accountable and if I can help others then that's great to. To some extent I've achieved that. I never went into it trying to turn it into a traffic generating machine unlike some PF blogs which I now pretty much ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Goggles Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I'm trying on the website front. Covering: - Earning more - Living well below your means - Investing including a dividend income stream so I don't have to sell down assets - Minimising expenses - Minimising taxes Been working towards early retirement since 2007 and at the blog since 2009. Very few interested with a readership of a only a few thousand a week. A few thousand visitors a week is pretty impressive for a blog like that TBH. Just out of interest - do you think everyone could do what you do? i.e. could we all do passive investing with portfolio re-balancing, or would that break the markets? I am asking without prejudice btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CunningPlan Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 To be honest I'm not looking for traffic. What I'm looking for is like minded people to learn from and interact with. The blog also keeps me accountable and if I can help others then that's great to. To some extent I've achieved that. I never went into it trying to turn it into a traffic generating machine unlike some PF blogs which I now pretty much ignore. Quick question if I may - do you have a wife / children? I admire your success but not sure I could do that to my children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 A few thousand visitors a week is pretty impressive for a blog like that TBH. Just out of interest - do you think everyone could do what you do? i.e. could we all do passive investing with portfolio re-balancing, or would that break the markets? I am asking without prejudice btw. I read an article on the weekend in the FT which suggests that passive investing is currently only about 30-35% of the total market so I see no reason why a few more can't jump on the bandwagon. Of course everyone can't do what I do, but HPC'ers are of course welcome, because I need them out consuming to the best of their abilities to ensure my dividends keep rolling in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 It'd surprise you. My wife works with a lot of elderly people, there is a sizeable minority of people who don't want anything to do with their parents care and believe the state should pick up the slack. As I said: "Down to individual priorities, what is seen as important"....some people can't even care for themselves never mind another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Quick question if I may - do you have a wife / children? I admire your success but not sure I could do that to my children. I have a better half. I stay anonymous on the children front to protect the innocent. Curious to understand how my strategy you think it would hurt children? We eat healthy and well. Spend a lot of time on free pursuits like picnics, long walks/hikes, cycling etc. Read books from the library. I never said I don't spend money just that I don't waste money which is what 99% of the population do IMHO. It is incredibly easy (if you take housing out of it) to live inexpensively in this great country. To put it into perspective my rent is 52% of the family spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) I have a better half. I stay anonymous on the children front to protect the innocent. Curious to understand how my strategy you think it would hurt children? We eat healthy and well. Spend a lot of time on free pursuits like picnics, long walks/hikes, cycling etc. Read books from the library. I never said I don't spend money just that I don't waste money which is what 99% of the population do IMHO. It is incredibly easy (if you take housing out of it) to live inexpensively in this great country. To put it into perspective my rent is 52% of the family spend. I'm a big fan of what you've done and commend you for it, but from memory you do have quite a high paid job don't you (which again, is down to your own talents and hard work and that's great), and I was of the understanding that you don't have kids which makes a big difference to what you can live on (although I know people without kids who seem to be permanently skint too). I think whilst you've had the talents and the drive to take the more extreme end of the route, it's probably something that can be done by most people on a continuum. Small changes that make larger life differences; eliminating un-necessary spending so that you don't need to take a promotion that will make you miserable just to make ends meet for example. A big stumbling block will be finding a partner who thinks the same way you do - man or woman. Most childless couples I know burn through the money and spend a big percentage of it on restaurants and such things - I think the choice to live super frugal to retire early will sound mental to lots of people (I don't think it is), and there's a good chance you'd end up single (more money saved!). I think for many people, even if they could work and save really hard for that decade, they might feel like they'd be giving up too much of 10 years of their 'prime' in doing so. Again, I'm not saying this is necessarily the case. Edited August 30, 2016 by JoeDavola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janch Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I'm sure theres lots of people here that have "retired". I quit my last permie job several years ago, bought a house for cash and doubt I'll ever pay income tax again. No way am i paying for such a rotten system. ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I'm a big fan of what you've done and commend you for it, but from memory you do have quite a high paid job don't you (which again, is down to your own talents and hard work and that's great), and I was of the understanding that you don't have kids which makes a big difference to what you can live on (although I know people without kids who seem to be permanently skint too). I think whilst you've had the talents and the drive to take the more extreme end of the route, it's probably something that can be done on a continuum. Small changes that make larger life differences; eliminating un-necessary spending so that you don't need to take a promotion that will make you miserable just to make ends meet for example. I think for many people, even if they could work and save really hard for that decade, they might feel like they'd be giving up too much of 10 years of their 'prime' in doing so. Again, I'm not saying this is necessarily the case. The 'high paying', 'high stress' job that requires a lot of 'hard work' came as a direct result of the strategy rather than it enabling the strategy. It's an important point I think. One of my pillars was earn more and I now earn in real inflation adjusted terms 2.7 times more than I did pre-2007. I would be careful calling me talented. I am definitely hard working and do have a half decent STEM degree but there are many people around me daily who are far far more talented than I am. "Success" in the workplace for me was 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration. On top of that was a strategy which I've written about a few times which enabled some ruthlessness around chasing the £'s. This is one reason why I think what I've done is not for just a small % of people rather it's for those people who want to do it. As you allude to I'm not saying that it's 10 years or bust to FIRE as we're all very different. Some might want to go at it harder (and I know if I was on my own I could go much harder) and others might want to take it slower. The principles are still the same however. For example learning how to give less to the financial services sector and HMRC enabling you to keep more for yourself should be suitable for just about anyone. At the end of the day it's just an Excel sheet with a few variables to show what's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The 'high paying', 'high stress' job that requires a lot of 'hard work' came as a direct result of the strategy rather than it enabling the strategy. It's an important point I think. One of my pillars was earn more and I now earn in real inflation adjusted terms 2.7 times more than I did pre-2007. I would be careful calling me talented. I am definitely hard working and do have a half decent STEM degree but there are many people around me daily who are far far more talented than I am. "Success" in the workplace for me was 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration. On top of that was a strategy which I've written about a few times which enabled some ruthlessness around chasing the £'s. This is one reason why I think what I've done is not for just a small % of people rather it's for those people who want to do it. As you allude to I'm not saying that it's 10 years or bust to FIRE as we're all very different. Some might want to go at it harder (and I know if I was on my own I could go much harder) and others might want to take it slower. The principles are still the same however. For example learning how to give less to the financial services sector and HMRC enabling you to keep more for yourself should be suitable for just about anyone. At the end of the day it's just an Excel sheet with a few variables to show what's possible. Yeah you're right that's an important point, thanks for the clarification. I think we've taken opposite routes to try and do similar things - i.e. save ourselves from a long term lifestyle that we couldn't see ourselves wanting to live. Four years ago I was 28 and in a job I hated and where I was chronically stressed, and I thought to myself 'I can't do this for the next 30 years'; so I went and got a job which paid the same money but which I guessed would be far less stressful (which was correct) - at the time I wanted to spend less time in work and worrying about work and more time trying to figure out how to have a happier personal life. I'm sitting here with a 1st class Computer Science degree, a decade of experience behind me and I know for a fact that they're crying out for contractors so yeah I could probably put myself in a position to take a contracting job and double my current salary - with the caveat that I don't have holidays and stuff like that. I don't think this would be right for me, but I can see how working hard and doing that will pay off for those who've got the drive to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) Different people need a different income to retire on. Edited August 30, 2016 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CunningPlan Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I have a better half. I stay anonymous on the children front to protect the innocent. Curious to understand how my strategy you think it would hurt children? We eat healthy and well. Spend a lot of time on free pursuits like picnics, long walks/hikes, cycling etc. Read books from the library. I never said I don't spend money just that I don't waste money which is what 99% of the population do IMHO. It is incredibly easy (if you take housing out of it) to live inexpensively in this great country. To put it into perspective my rent is 52% of the family spend. I didn't say it would hurt my children - but it would have an effect and they also seriously hinder the amount you can live on. Food aside, my spend on myself is in the region of £30 / month. I am happy with that since I don't really want anything. My kids are different. They need new clothes, shoes etc far more often than I do. They have hobbies that whilst not quite as expensive as polo are not cheap. They have school trips to go on, they need a smart phone etc etc. Without the kids I wouldn't even need a car. Without them I could survive in a one bed flat and could move away from the area that is great for them to somewhere cheaper. You could say that they don't actually 'need' any of these things. This is true, but I think without them their happiness and ability to grow into a rounded individual would suffer. I estimate that when the kids leave home in 2 years time I will be in excess of £25k per year better off. Kids also need time. When they were younger I was doing the stupid hours / stupid stress sort of job I slowed down so that I could spend more time with them. Again, this is a cost, albeit an invisible one, of having kids. Hence I asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 As I mentioned the other day on another thread - the whole financial independence thing is a very broad church...as I mentioned, should I choose to go down the most minimal expenses route right now, I can consider myself done and my wealth is but a quarter of WICAO's. Doing that exercise in working it out has enabled my mental resilience to step up a notch. So onto the next target...bump it up by another 50% (~400k), which will take 4-5 years (mainly via saving and hopefully a job move) and it's possible in what i would consider style. I would guess though people who (currently) have 400k of housing equity who are in a similar position in life otherwise wouldn't see it like me. They will continue the full time rat race because the alternative doesn't even enter conciousness. I'm working on a site too...and it will cover a variety of strategies. It'll completely out me but I'm not too bothered about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Kids didn't use to cost this much.....they still do not have to cost this much. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11360819/Average-cost-of-raising-a-child-in-UK-230000.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Yeah you're right that's an important point, thanks for the clarification. I think we've taken opposite routes to try and do similar things - i.e. save ourselves from a long term lifestyle that we couldn't see ourselves wanting to live. Four years ago I was 28 and in a job I hated and where I was chronically stressed, and I thought to myself 'I can't do this for the next 30 years'; so I went and got a job which paid the same money but which I guessed would be far less stressful (which was correct) - at the time I wanted to spend less time in work and worrying about work and more time trying to figure out how to have a happier personal life. I'm sitting here with a 1st class Computer Science degree, a decade of experience behind me and I know for a fact that they're crying out for contractors so yeah I could probably put myself in a position to take a contracting job and double my current salary - with the caveat that I don't have holidays and stuff like that. I don't think this would be right for me, but I can see how working hard and doing that will pay off for those who've got the drive to do it. Thanks for sharing Joe. We have indeed taken quite different paths. I deliberately worked myself into positions where I could continue to increase my earnings knowing that I wasn't in it 'forever' which made coping with the stress etc a lot easier. This post and this post cover a lot of my thoughts on earning more and share how I went about it. None of it is rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eek Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Yeah you're right that's an important point, thanks for the clarification. I think we've taken opposite routes to try and do similar things - i.e. save ourselves from a long term lifestyle that we couldn't see ourselves wanting to live. Four years ago I was 28 and in a job I hated and where I was chronically stressed, and I thought to myself 'I can't do this for the next 30 years'; so I went and got a job which paid the same money but which I guessed would be far less stressful (which was correct) - at the time I wanted to spend less time in work and worrying about work and more time trying to figure out how to have a happier personal life. I'm sitting here with a 1st class Computer Science degree, a decade of experience behind me and I know for a fact that they're crying out for contractors so yeah I could probably put myself in a position to take a contracting job and double my current salary - with the caveat that I don't have holidays and stuff like that. I don't think this would be right for me, but I can see how working hard and doing that will pay off for those who've got the drive to do it. Work hard as a contractor? I find being a contractor far less stressful than being a permie with people controlling what technologies I work on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 ...they need a smart phone ... I estimate that when the kids leave home in 2 years time I will be in excess of £25k per year better off. ... Thanks for sharing. To compare: - our total spending for 2015 was £24k and that included renting in the South East. - I don't even have a smart phone. Of course we're all different and it's what makes the world an interesting place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Thanks for sharing Joe. We have indeed taken quite different paths. I deliberately worked myself into positions where I could continue to increase my earnings knowing that I wasn't in it 'forever' which made coping with the stress etc a lot easier. This post and this post cover a lot of my thoughts on earning more and share how I went about it. None of it is rocket science. Thanks, I'll check this out. I can see how it would help with the increased stress/workload when you see that there's an end in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) Work hard as a contractor? I find being a contractor far less stressful than being a permie with people controlling what technologies I work on... Ha - yep that's actually what I found so stressful about my last job; we seemed to jump to an entirely new set of technologies every year or so. Like starting a new job every year, and at times we were made to use the wrong tools for the job. Whereas now I've been using the same technology for the last 4 years and I know it inside out. It's a nice feeling. Edited August 30, 2016 by JoeDavola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Thanks, I'll check this out. I can see how it would help with the increased stress/workload when you see that there's an end in sight. It makes a massive difference. There is no way I could have maintained what I've done earnings wise for 30 or more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 ... Doing that exercise in working it out has enabled my mental resilience to step up a notch. ... I'm working on a site too...and it will cover a variety of strategies. It'll completely out me but I'm not too bothered about that. The power of a simple spreadsheet in this game is incredibly powerful. I update mine weekly. In the end I was able to progress to FI at an average rate of a little over 0.9% per month which means you see it happening before your very eyes. Please do share your site when it's up. We've had quite a few great threads over the years and it would be great to learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The idea of retiring for the LAST FEW YEARS OF YOUR LIFE will still be viable...however this means working well into our seventies now. Personally I view retirement as the absence of compulsion to work full time...that will be possible for many in their 50's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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