Sick Of Waiting!

[jsh201]

I am so fed of of waiting for house prices to come down. I feel as if the whole country has gone insane over the past three years. In 2003 I had a detatched 3 bed house in south yorkshire which I sold for £122K after three months on the market. I chose to sell as I was moving down to Cornwall with my work and a number of people I knew (including one estate agent) were stating that the housing market was becoming overvalued and due to stagnate or fall. I remember people coming to view the house at the time and complaining to me about how high I had priced the property and that noone would ever be able to afford it (seems laughable now!).

I also saw websites like this one forcasting the usual doom and gloom messages which I thought were probably true, so I took the 122K and ran. However, selling the property turned out to be the biggest financial disaster I have ever made and one from which I will probably never recover. I cashed in £50K profit from the sale with a big smile on my face (soon to turn to tears) and put my cash in a savings account, waiting for prices to fall (I thought). Yet instead of falling in price, the house I sold for 122K is now worth probably closer to 200K and still rising apparently!

I now have a much better job and a salary of more or less double what I had in 2003 and yet I still could not afford to buy back the same house I had then. What the hell is wrong with people in the UK? I remember just a few years back when people (including mortgage advisors) looked at you as if you were insane if you wanted to lend 100k or more, now it seems that the basic mortgage figure is generally well over 100k, even though wages are not really any higher and all our other bills such as fuel, council tax etc. are also higher. I think what most buyers are doing now is paying interest only for property instead of repayment. These types of mortgages should never have been allowed to happen, as we now live in a society were we have to earn two wages instead of one, just to manage an interest only mortgage, where a few years back it was one wage to cover the repayment mortgage. Well done everybody, good thinking!

What amazes me most is how people in the uk will bitterly complain if a cheap food item goes up by 10%, or they get a slightly higher insurance quote or council tax bill or fuel protests against increasing petrol prices and yet the most expensive thing we will ever buy has effectively doubled or more in a few short years and no one seems to be that concerned or keen on protesting.

Now I keep reading on this site about the predictions for 'a correction', 'a crash', 'the bubble bursting' etc. but still the prices go up and up. And now there are predictions of further increases still, which is 'good news for the ecconomy' apparently. Well I for one have had enough of the UK. I am planning my emmigration, as are many of my friends, medical professionals like me. Isn't it sad and sick that hard working professionals have been priced out of their own country in a few short years because of fear, greed and stupidity.

Sorry to say this to all you so-called experts, but you were and continue to be wrong regarding the predicted fall in prices. The crash may indeed come, but it is not imminent yet, not while there are so many scared, greedy and misguided folk taking interest only mortgages to keep the market alive!

[paradox]

M8 I know how you feel

What part of South Yorkshire are you from?

[teddyboy]

I am so fed of of waiting for house prices to come down. I feel as if the whole country has gone insane over the past three years. In 2003 I had a detatched 3 bed house in south yorkshire which I sold for £122K after three months on the market. I chose to sell as I was moving down to Cornwall with my work and a number of people I knew (including one estate agent) were stating that the housing market was becoming overvalued and due to stagnate or fall. I remember people coming to view the house at the time and complaining to me about how high I had priced the property and that noone would ever be able to afford it (seems laughable now!).

I also saw websites like this one forcasting the usual doom and gloom messages which I thought were probably true, so I took the 122K and ran. However, selling the property turned out to be the biggest financial disaster I have ever made and one from which I will probably never recover. I cashed in £50K profit from the sale with a big smile on my face (soon to turn to tears) and put my cash in a savings account, waiting for prices to fall (I thought). Yet instead of falling in price, the house I sold for 122K is now worth probably closer to 200K and still rising apparently!

I now have a much better job and a salary of more or less double what I had in 2003 and yet I still could not afford to buy back the same house I had then. What the hell is wrong with people in the UK? I remember just a few years back when people (including mortgage advisors) looked at you as if you were insane if you wanted to lend 100k or more, now it seems that the basic mortgage figure is generally well over 100k, even though wages are not really any higher and all our other bills such as fuel, council tax etc. are also higher. I think what most buyers are doing now is paying interest only for property instead of repayment. These types of mortgages should never have been allowed to happen, as we now live in a society were we have to earn two wages instead of one, just to manage an interest only mortgage, where a few years back it was one wage to cover the repayment mortgage. Well done everybody, good thinking!

What amazes me most is how people in the uk will bitterly complain if a cheap food item goes up by 10%, or they get a slightly higher insurance quote or council tax bill or fuel protests against increasing petrol prices and yet the most expensive thing we will ever buy has effectively doubled or more in a few short years and no one seems to be that concerned or keen on protesting.

Now I keep reading on this site about the predictions for 'a correction', 'a crash', 'the bubble bursting' etc. but still the prices go up and up. And now there are predictions of further increases still, which is 'good news for the ecconomy' apparently. Well I for one have had enough of the UK. I am planning my emmigration, as are many of my friends, medical professionals like me. Isn't it sad and sick that hard working professionals have been priced out of their own country in a few short years because of fear, greed and stupidity.

Sorry to say this to all you so-called experts, but you were and continue to be wrong regarding the predicted fall in prices. The crash may indeed come, but it is not imminent yet, not while there are so many scared, greedy and misguided folk taking interest only mortgages to keep the market alive!

Fantastic First Post!!!! Welcome!

I cannot question anything that you have said. I think your closing comment is absolutely spot on! If you have read any of my posts you will see that I am forever accusing the british public of being KNOBS!

I think these people that pay silly money and just see £450 a month or £700 month and do not really understand the ENORMOUS amount of money they are borrowing. Lenders need to tighten the lending criteria, but they are too greedy. People also need to appreciate values, especially money. It would be interesting to see what percentage of people save more than a 5% deposit with REAL money. If they did they would realise what an enormous amount they are borrowing.

There are a large percentage of people who have bought a property that they dont particularly like, but they are at least ON THE LADDER. This disappoints me I think we have weeded out all the panic buyer and with only 7% being FTB's I think that these 7% are SMART people who are good with money.

Yes There WILL be correction but we need to stop making it easy to borrow so much money, so easily!

TB

Edited January 15, 2006 by teddyboy

[Gemonster]

I am so fed of of waiting for house prices to come down. I feel as if the whole country has gone insane over the past three years. In 2003 I had a detatched 3 bed house in south yorkshire which I sold for £122K after three months on the market. I chose to sell as I was moving down to Cornwall with my work and a number of people I knew (including one estate agent) were stating that the housing market was becoming overvalued and due to stagnate or fall. I remember people coming to view the house at the time and complaining to me about how high I had priced the property and that noone would ever be able to afford it (seems laughable now!).

I also saw websites like this one forcasting the usual doom and gloom messages which I thought were probably true, so I took the 122K and ran. However, selling the property turned out to be the biggest financial disaster I have ever made and one from which I will probably never recover. I cashed in £50K profit from the sale with a big smile on my face (soon to turn to tears) and put my cash in a savings account, waiting for prices to fall (I thought). Yet instead of falling in price, the house I sold for 122K is now worth probably closer to 200K and still rising apparently!

I now have a much better job and a salary of more or less double what I had in 2003 and yet I still could not afford to buy back the same house I had then. What the hell is wrong with people in the UK? I remember just a few years back when people (including mortgage advisors) looked at you as if you were insane if you wanted to lend 100k or more, now it seems that the basic mortgage figure is generally well over 100k, even though wages are not really any higher and all our other bills such as fuel, council tax etc. are also higher. I think what most buyers are doing now is paying interest only for property instead of repayment. These types of mortgages should never have been allowed to happen, as we now live in a society were we have to earn two wages instead of one, just to manage an interest only mortgage, where a few years back it was one wage to cover the repayment mortgage. Well done everybody, good thinking!

What amazes me most is how people in the uk will bitterly complain if a cheap food item goes up by 10%, or they get a slightly higher insurance quote or council tax bill or fuel protests against increasing petrol prices and yet the most expensive thing we will ever buy has effectively doubled or more in a few short years and no one seems to be that concerned or keen on protesting.

Now I keep reading on this site about the predictions for 'a correction', 'a crash', 'the bubble bursting' etc. but still the prices go up and up. And now there are predictions of further increases still, which is 'good news for the ecconomy' apparently. Well I for one have had enough of the UK. I am planning my emmigration, as are many of my friends, medical professionals like me. Isn't it sad and sick that hard working professionals have been priced out of their own country in a few short years because of fear, greed and stupidity.

Sorry to say this to all you so-called experts, but you were and continue to be wrong regarding the predicted fall in prices. The crash may indeed come, but it is not imminent yet, not while there are so many scared, greedy and misguided folk taking interest only mortgages to keep the market alive!

You walked away with £50K profit from your last sale and your a professional on a good salary no doubt! Your in a far better position than most first time buyers.

If you can wait, I don't see that you have a problem. Besides isn't HPI a global phenomenon? No point running away!

[right_freds_dead]

ugh.welcome to the world of now. seems frustraiting i know, but i feel it wont be long now. i was here in 2004 when they were still rising. now they have turned. at best stopped, but i see drops here in NW.

light at the end of the tunnel ect.

ill agree, theres a small, but steady supply of gulable fools keeping the pyramid drip fed, but its not enough to feed this beast,. not like before. it has to go down and is currently doing that.

[PostalVote]

House prices have become the bane of my life. Its an unhealthy obsession to the point that I even manage to discuss it with a Canadian tourist in a bar in Cuba! There is no getting away from the madness. Wife wants to move as badly as me, but since the Mortgage on our house is a third of the rent we would pay elsewhere and upgrading requires a reasonable lottery win, we are pretty much stuck where we are.

But, the houses we watch remain unsold and the new entries on right move seem more reasonable every month. Still way out of our price range but the correction is happening now, painfully slowly. Nobody expected prices to rise so much, and because they did, the bear view is considered insane when the reality is its the prices that are mad. Unfortunately, some people have become so dependent on the current situation they react with anger and malliace if you challenge them. They will meet your observations with venom and hatred and disregard any information you present as doom mongering. I am 'delusional' I have been told, apparently there is such a thing as free money and pyramid schemes are the new paradigm. Go figure.

I continue to wait, impatiently, carefully saving every spare penny for the eventual deposit, knowing that one day, that hard earned cash and sacraficed luxuries will one day line the pockets, albeit be briefly, of a desperate forced seller. I look forward to that day, it will bring a living space suitable to our needs, but I also dread it. I do not want to see others losing their homes and dreams because the milk turned sour, theres no fun in a recession; but the act of parting with my savings and stress of moving will certainly leave me wondering what all the fuss was about. Bricks and mortor? Why all the heart ache, the endless arguments with supposed friends and meaningless colleagues, and why the compulsion to visit this forsaken website every sodding day. I ask my self, is it really that important? I tell myself no, but yet here I am, HousePriceCrash.co.uk in one window, rightmove in the other...

Talk about sick of waiting, I used to have hobbies.

[Smurf1976]

The bears are getting fed up waiting and are worried that maybe they're wrong. Classic sign that the crash is imminent.

Reverse applies with bulls getting fed up at the bottom just before the boom.

[Come On Down]

House prices have become the bane of my life. Its an unhealthy obsession to the point that I even manage to discuss it with a Canadian tourist in a bar in Cuba! There is no getting away from the madness. Wife wants to move as badly as me, but since the Mortgage on our house is a third of the rent we would pay elsewhere and upgrading requires a reasonable lottery win, we are pretty much stuck where we are.

But, the houses we watch remain unsold and the new entries on right move seem more reasonable every month. Still way out of our price range but the correction is happening now, painfully slowly. Nobody expected prices to rise so much, and because they did, the bear view is considered insane when the reality is its the prices that are mad. Unfortunately, some people have become so dependent on the current situation they react with anger and malliace if you challenge them. They will meet your observations with venom and hatred and disregard any information you present as doom mongering. I am 'delusional' I have been told, apparently there is such a thing as free money and pyramid schemes are the new paradigm. Go figure.

I continue to wait, impatiently, carefully saving every spare penny for the eventual deposit, knowing that one day, that hard earned cash and sacraficed luxuries will one day line the pockets, albeit be briefly, of a desperate forced seller. I look forward to that day, it will bring a living space suitable to our needs, but I also dread it. I do not want to see others losing their homes and dreams because the milk turned sour, theres no fun in a recession; but the act of parting with my savings and stress of moving will certainly leave me wondering what all the fuss was about. Bricks and mortor? Why all the heart ache, the endless arguments with supposed friends and meaningless colleagues, and why the compulsion to visit this forsaken website every sodding day. I ask my self, is it really that important? I tell myself no, but yet here I am, HousePriceCrash.co.uk in one window, rightmove in the other...

Talk about sick of waiting, I used to have hobbies.

[Live_in_hope]

I agree with being sick of waiting, not being able to put down some real roots (moved 5 times in 4years due to the LL selling, it would be nice not having to up sticks every so often & go through all the hassle with agents (paying their silly fees) paying moving costs all the changes of address.

Though with prices the way the are do I have a choice - no

I really hope their would be a crash though their is still a lot old money out their & for that reason I just cannot see prices dropping whilst these folk continue to prop up the housing market.

In my opinion unless the government raise tax's on these folk to make the yeilds zero their will be no change

[Lion]

I know exactly how you feel! I was in the same situation as you in 2000 when my wife an myself moved to the UK from Austria. We investigated weather buying or renting was the better option, and at that time everybody said prices were just too high and can only come down. Coming from Austria, we were also quite surprised how ugly and small most properties were that we visited - many of them would be illegal in Austria due to criminal heating systems, poor electric wiring, too low ceilings, poor insulation etc.

So we decided to rent initially, but we did not like it a lot as we could not change much in our property. The landlord, whose main income were his properties which he therefore was very fussy about, was always checking on us and asking if everything was OK - he probably just wanted to be friendly and helpful but we just wanted our privacy.

Luckily, our salaries multiplied within the first three years of our time in the UK, so two years ago we were in the fortunate position to buy easily regardless of the state of the property market. And I can tell you, we do not regret it! We have now a nice property, in an area that we like, and we refurbished and decorated it as we like it - including new floors and furniture throughout. My wife made a one-year interior designer course, and she did a great job in our property. What really surpirised us, is that the property has since then gone up in value! So even financially it was a good decision to buy.

The only thing I try not to think about too much are the more than 100,000 pounds we lost out on by not buying in 2000! I can still remeber it very well - at that time we tried to get all possible information about the property market, and at the end we we signed the wrong piece of paper - instead of a rental agreement we should have signed a purchase contract.

[Guest prudence]

People who have str----d have done so to eventually be financially better off. The worst thing someone who has done that could do is to go back into the market now. If you want to benefit from what you have done you have to stay in the rental sector and be patient. The rental sector is not n ow cost-effective in terms of yield and possible capital depreciation, therefore it is a good deal for the tenant. Patience, if you adopt a strategy you have to see it through, unless you really are misguided enough to believe that this crazy situation can miraculously continue in perpetuity....

[yvonnechristina]

Playing the waiting game is frustrating. However, the tide eventually seems to have turned and house prices now seem to be stagnating (at best) and overall are falling in price. I was worried previously about waiting and holding off when at times they were just reaching higher and higher and higher. This pattern now at least seems to have stopped - they appear to have peaked (and are totally unaffordable for the majority of first time buyers). Economic forecasts for the next few years aren't good and it is doubtful that they can be maintained at such levels with first time buyers being priced out of the market.

I did used to get very frustrated waiting for prices to drop. However, if you decide to rent or get on with your life and do whatever you want to do whilst keeping an eye out on the prices then there is no need to get so bothered about it all. I used to worry about having to wait for years for prices to drop significantly (I think it probably will actually take about 3 years for them to go back down to more reasonable levels), now I don't worry about it and am happy to rent and wait for prices to become more realistic.

Edited January 15, 2006 by yvonnechristina

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

It seems like a long wait. I just tell myself, what do I really gain by buying now?

I come up with:

1. Monthly bills several hundred pounds higher for a cramped inadequate home, probably in need of some work.

2. The feeling of being 'settled' and not at the mercy of scumbag lettings agents or lazy landlords.

3. Becoming utterly dependent one a set salary each month. I couldn't risk changing to another job that tunrs out ot be unbearable. I couldn't take a pay cut to free up more time for working on any business idea. Neither could my wife. We'd be slves to the mortage and our present jobs.

4. More tied to an area that doesn't have that much going for it other than lots of grimey traffic.

5. A debt that won't feel smaller over time due and likely to get more uncomfortable due to real inflation being higher than any pay increase.

There are benefits but they really are small compared to the advantages. I picture myself in my 'own home' shackled in the way outlined above and realise i would get very little sense of satisfaction out of buying.

[Fancypants]

a watched market never crashes...

or to slip into Swiss Toni mode for a moment... an HPC is like seducing a beautiful woman. The more anxious and frustrated you become, the more she will sense it, and the less likely it is that she will relent.

Back away, think about something else, be patient, get involved with furthering your life in other ways and wait for her to come to you. She will.

[dnd]

You can't look at, or analyse, the housing market at the moment as it's been driven by human instinct and herd behaviour and not figures

The title of the thread "Sick Of Waiting!" is, IMO, an emotional response - exactly the thing that is sustaining the bubble...

[delite1]

Relax. What’s all the fuss about? Take it from someone who watched the last crash by the day. This one is no different the only thing is the would-be PM is desperately trying to avoid any bad press. Soon his situation will come to a head and something will give. All the risks are on the downside, there is no more growth (people are turning to equities), there are too many amateurs involved and the chances of an external shock are extremely high (instability in the world due to the polarisation of the USA and the Muslims).

Even without the external shock the market will correct but with one it will be quite a spectacle.

Just relax, think how an amateur landlord with 3 void months a year is feeling on a recent new-build BTL.

Wanna swap?

Nah didn’t think so.

[Mancghirl]

Hang on in there. The end is nigh.

7% FTB's? A market without new customers is ultimately unsustainable.

[ILikeBigBoobs]

How to get your foot on the London property ladder

Our cut-out-and-wrap-yourself-in-under-Centrepoint guide for first time buyers

by Thomas the Tank Engine

So, you've had enough of sharing a grotty room in the armpit of the worst part of Feltham, miles from a tube and even more miles from the nearest All Bar One. Your neighbours are all badly dressed retards working in jobs so dead-end that even your position as a junior assistant tea bag buyer seems glamorous. You want to get out quick and get your foot on the London property ladder but don't know where to go.

Sure, you've seen all the brochures telling you about loft living in Walthamstow and riverside flats in Croydon but, oddly enough, the price tags of £750,000 are putting you and your salary off.

But where else can you relocate to and still be able to get to work in what Ken Livingstone tells us all is the most vibrant city in the world? One of the most detailed surveys of affordable accommodation within easy travelling distance of London has been carried out - here are the findings;

Thames Gateway Village

Where is it?: Rumour has it that the place is somewhere to the east of London but we were unable to find anyone who's ever been there and we doubt you have either. We were offered a visit but, quite frankly, couldn't be bothered.

What's transport like?: Ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. Alright, sorry. But tell your friends some ****-and-bull story about the a proposed Docklands Light Railway extension or they'll laugh at you even more.

Ups: You could be pioneering the next up-and-coming area of the capital.

Downs: You won't be.

Stansted

Where is it?: Picturesque area of Essex.

What's transport like?: Fast train line into Liverpool Street and surprisingly good air connections for such an isolated area of the countryside.

Ups: Prices have actually — and mysteriously — been falling here for some months. Locals seem keen to sell. Many exciting residents' discussion group meetings with esoteric topics such as "No more runways".

Downs: None apparent to us.

Milton Keynes

Where is it?: Not too far up the M1.

What's transport like?: Quite good right now but Virgin Trains are working on that.

Ups: Has its own professional football club.

Downs: It's Wimbledon.

Northern France

Where is it?: Just the other side of the Channel.

What's transport like?: Hop on the new Eurostar commuter service (predicted to start in 2011) and you can be at Waterloo in under two hours. (Note: Add the same again for a three-stop tube journey within London, naturally).

Ups: Good food, friendly locals (in British areas) and a standard of living that the average Afghan can only dream about.

Downs: Too many immigrants. And French.

Iraq

Where is it?: Even more east than Thames Gateway (though with better developed local facilities).

What's transport like?: Frequent flights to the UK right now though the number may go down in the future.

Ups: Plenty of sunshine and oil.

Downs: Gun crime nearly at the same level as Harlesden and mortgages reputedly hard to get.

[deus ex machina]

Oh for God's sake stop whingeing.

You took a position when you sold so live with it and stop your self pitying whining.

Crashes and booms are different sides of the same coin...you sold when you thought you were on top of the heap but you screwed up. Gosh, just think of what you lost? Greed makes pricks of us all if you only but realised it.Dont think we would have heard from you if you had sold last year?

Why are the English so stupid?

[Jumble]

Hi Jsh,

I feel for you, its a salutory tale indeed, and one that many on this board will try to ignore.

However consider the following 3 scenarios:

1. The market crashes soon. Lets say your old house, once worth 122k, which has risen to £200k, drops by 30%. The house (or its equivalent) will then cost £140k. You will be in a better position than you are now, but you will have cost yourself at least £18k in purchase price plus stamp duty, wasted rental, moving costs, and conveyancing.

2. The housing market corrects, but does so by stagnating, or endures several years of minor drops. So your old house sits at circa £200 for 3-5 years. Whenever you come to buy again you will have lost circa £60k plus costs, stamp duty and several years rental. If you are my age you may also realise the importance of having lost several years of salary that can be used to pay off the mortgage...

3. The market continues to rise. Unlikely perhaps, but the mad majority thinks it can. In this case you will lose even more than in scenario 2.

STR is a great strategy IF the market crashes, AND IF you can time the market exactly. However those are such massive IFs - and most STRs on this board got out several years too soon. Hence many like you will lose even if the market crashes.

I hope the market is kind to you.

Edited January 15, 2006 by Jumble

[dnd]

Hang on in there. The end is nigh.

7% FTB's? A market without new customers is ultimately unsustainable.

I think the slack was being taken up by fresh BTL - but without the greed of capital gain they'll be out of the market soon as well...

[Jumble]

So what are you going to do next? Continue to rent, or jump back in?

[Ferret]

So what are you going to do next? Continue to rent, or jump back in?

Maybe you could find jsh201 a very nice bargain.

[Jumble]

Maybe you could find jsh201 a very nice bargain.

He needs to know the secret.....make sure there is a large wardrobe and plenty of shoe storage space....bargain then guaranteed

[Ferret]

He needs to know the secret.....make sure there is a large wardrobe and plenty of shoe storage space....bargain then guaranteed

There`s that girly element in there again.