whitevanman Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 When I was growing up, not that long ago, it was fairly easy to not be a criminal. A few things were prohibited - such robbing and injuring people but mostly you could get on and do what you liked. Which, as rural boy, for me included walking round with a sheath knife, cycling to mate's farms with a gun, making "fireworks" (would probably today be called IEDs), etc. These days, I suspect the vast majority of the population are criminals - "enemies of the state", not "of the people" though. In my tinfoil hat moments, I've wondered if the push for electric cars is regarded as having the side benefit of removing a high energy substance (petrol) from the hands of the public. The police already try and prevent petrol stations from selling it to anyone without a car. I discovered this when I cycled round to get some fuel for my mower. It's meant to demoralise us. If the state wants us out of the way it can always find something to prosecute us for. See Tommy Robinson and his 'mortgage fraud'. Oh, but he was bad! It's alright until it turns out you are the bad one. We need a return to the common law, made by the people for the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntb Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Oxalic acid - most of the furniture restorers and french polishers in the country (and as I learned above, beekeepers) Sodium Chlorate - a substantial proportion of gardeners Nitric acid / hydrogen peroxide - anyone doing home gold recovery from computer chips etc. Mercury - anyone with an old thermometer Boot stamping on face allright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 Oxalic acid - most of the furniture restorers and french polishers in the country (and as I learned above, beekeepers) Sodium Chlorate - a substantial proportion of gardeners Nitric acid / hydrogen peroxide - anyone doing home gold recovery from computer chips etc. Mercury - anyone with an old thermometer Boot stamping on face allright Hasn't the sale of those already been stopped under separate H&S laws? If not I'm amazed, given how things are going! In any case I suspect that existing owners of those will be exmpted since the mercury is negligible and not 'loose'. But again, as you point out, the list of innocuous and innocent activities for which various chemicals can be justified to be owned in reasonable quantities. I'll bet that most (all?) MPs don't even know about this new legislative 'trap'. Indeed I wonder howmany themselves probably have one of more of those restricted chemicals at home and, like myself, have long since forgotten about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Phosphoric acid? Commonly used soldering flux, I bought a bottle, without any checks at all, just a couple of months ago. It's not very concentrated but it didn't say how much in the list above. The stuff's in coca cola too, need ID for buying that now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntb Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 It's in rust treatments too. So much for freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Oxalic acid - most of the furniture restorers and french polishers in the country (and as I learned above, beekeepers) And yacht owners. It's recommended you use 80% acetic acid for sterilising your frames. It'll melt your eyes and lungs as well as concrete. Apparently not banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Mercury - anyone with an old thermometer The list just seemed to mention various mercury compounds rather than plain elemental mercury. Obviouslt poisonous but perhaps the bomb thing again? Some are explosive (they are / were used for detonators). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 The list just seemed to mention various mercury compounds rather than plain elemental mercury. Obviouslt poisonous but perhaps the bomb thing again? Some are explosive (they are / were used for detonators). Read it again. It clearly states Mercury and various compounds..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 The list just seemed to mention various mercury compounds rather than plain elemental mercury. Obviouslt poisonous but perhaps the bomb thing again? Some are explosive (they are / were used for detonators). You can make some of the most ghastly poisons based around mercury. Read up on wiki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I have been thinking of taking up fishing again and noticed that loads of knives are availble for fishing and there are a few Bear Gryles branded knives for sale - all which appear fixed blades - so I imagine people use them for camping, fishing, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 And yacht owners. It's recommended you use 80% acetic acid for sterilising your frames. It'll melt your eyes and lungs as well as concrete. Apparently not banned. What do you mean by frames? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 The list just seemed to mention various mercury compounds rather than plain elemental mercury. Obviouslt poisonous but perhaps the bomb thing again? Some are explosive (they are / were used for detonators). Mercury Fulminate was a favourite for anarchist bombmakers a century or so ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orsini_bomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John51 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Nobody is going to get arrested for having an old bottle of hydrogen peroxide as it's probably just water by now. Still pisses me off though. the 35% stuff can get rid of warts but the 12% stuff doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I have been thinking of taking up fishing again and noticed that loads of knives are availble for fishing and there are a few Bear Gryles branded knives for sale - all which appear fixed blades - so I imagine people use them for camping, fishing, etc. Oh, fishing. Thank goodness for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Read it again. It clearly states Mercury and various compounds..... Can't see that, at least on the list posted in here. I've not tried looking at any official crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 Can't see that, at least on the list posted in here. I've not tried looking at any official crap. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supplying-explosives-precursors/supplying-explosives-precursors-and-poison#regulated-substancesl It's in the poisons section. "Mercury and its compounds (including: nitrates of mercury; oxides of mercury; mercuric cyanide oxides; mercuric thiocyanate; ammonium mercuric chlorides; potassium mercuric iodides; organic compounds of mercury which contain a methyl group directly linked to the mercury atom)" The liquid metal itself is stated first. The above sentence clearly specifies that the pure metal on its own is also a restricted material and thus possession of it (presumably in free and loose form, i.e. in a bottle) requires a licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 Nobody is going to get arrested for having an old bottle of hydrogen peroxide as it's probably just water by now. Still pisses me off though. the 35% stuff can get rid of warts but the 12% stuff doesn't. Indeed. The whole issue of the low concentration thresholds for some of the listed chemicals got me wondering. Presumably, for example, 3% nitric acid can be made more conecntrated relatively easily? If so then obviously the user would end up with reduced volume of liquid to work with, so they would just buy more (unrestricted!) in the first place. A bit like having to buy multiple packs a paracetamol because they are legally limted to only 16 pills per pack. Or maybe there is no easy way to enhance the concentration of, for example, 10% hydrogen peroxide to, say, >20% - and TPTB don't have to worry about that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexton Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Concentrate H2o2 by freezing the water.If you don't want it too concentrated pour it off before all the water is frozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 What do you mean by frames? Brood combs Without the brood or bees. Def not done in an active hive, or near concrete, or near a house, and not without full PPE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 Concentrate H2o2 by freezing the water.If you don't want it too concentrated pour it off before all the water is frozen. Oh really!? I never thought of that! Can it really be that easy??? My undertstanding is that at significanlty high concentrations it can be quite a nasty substance to handle/deal with? So one would have to be careful presumably about just how much water was removed?? EDIT UPDATE: Just checked Wikipedia. Seems your proposed method is highly impractical? Since it has almost the same melting temperature as normal water. But it does boil at a much higher 150degC. So perhaps it can be made more concentrated instead by careful and gentle evaporation of the unwanted water content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supplying-explosives-precursors/supplying-explosives-precursors-and-poison#regulated-substancesl It's in the poisons section. "Mercury and its compounds (including: nitrates of mercury; oxides of mercury; mercuric cyanide oxides; mercuric thiocyanate; ammonium mercuric chlorides; potassium mercuric iodides; organic compounds of mercury which contain a methyl group directly linked to the mercury atom)" The liquid metal itself is stated first. The above sentence clearly specifies that the pure metal on its own is also a restricted material and thus possession of it (presumably in free and loose form, i.e. in a bottle) requires a licence. Ah, right, that's on the site but not on the list posted in this thread. You presume free and loose form but it doesn't say, so maybe tough luck anyone with CFL light bulbs. Or fillings. My mum said she used to have a bit of mercury she played with as a kid, with her bare hands. Just as well we don't do that these days but this is all rather going too far in the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 Ah, right, that's on the site but not on the list posted in this thread. You presume free and loose form but it doesn't say, so maybe tough luck anyone with CFL light bulbs. Or fillings. My mum said she used to have a bit of mercury she played with as a kid, with her bare hands. Just as well we don't do that these days but this is all rather going too far in the opposite direction. I've now made an appointment to see my MP on this matter. I doubt that I'll be able to persuade them of the unncessarily overly officious manner of the new regulations (i.e the absurd licencing in order to possess) since, after all, the driving motive behind it, officially, is in the ongoing fight against terrorism - and we all know that anyone who dares question that must themselves automatically be suspect. Rather I shall be driving home the point the manner is which it has been introduced with no public awareness campaign. Reading some more I see that in fact this particular gem of ever ongoing legislative diahorrea has its origins in an EU dictat. Quelle surprise - not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Bear Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Ah, right, that's on the site but not on the list posted in this thread. You presume free and loose form but it doesn't say, so maybe tough luck anyone with CFL light bulbs. Or fillings. My mum said she used to have a bit of mercury she played with as a kid, with her bare hands. Just as well we don't do that these days but this is all rather going too far in the opposite direction. Yes, we play with it in the chem lab as kids. We were warned toe be careful though as it was very expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexton Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Oh really!? I never thought of that! Can it really be that easy??? My undertstanding is that at significanlty high concentrations it can be quite a nasty substance to handle/deal with? So one would have to be careful presumably about just how much water was removed?? EDIT UPDATE: Just checked Wikipedia. Seems your proposed method is highly impractical? Since it has almost the same melting temperature as normal water. But it does boil at a much higher 150degC. So perhaps it can be made more concentrated instead by careful and gentle evaporation of the unwanted water content? Quote from http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/326082-chemistry-tip-concentrated-hydrogen-peroxide-cheaply/ "I'm 58 years old, and I first produced concentrated hydrogen peroxide by this method when I was about 12. I've done it many times since, and never had a problem" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 Quote from http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/326082-chemistry-tip-concentrated-hydrogen-peroxide-cheaply/ "I'm 58 years old, and I first produced concentrated hydrogen peroxide by this method when I was about 12. I've done it many times since, and never had a problem" Still suspicious of the accuracy of this IF, as quoted, hydrogen peroxide has a freezing temperature within half a degree of that of water! In practice, with an ordinary freezer, you won't stand a chance of separating the two in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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