What Is The Point Of The Eu?

[wonderpup]

I used to know the answer to this question- it was to promote peace and prosperity in a united Europe- to me this was self evident and I was strongly in favor of the EU and all it's works.

Then came the economic crisis and suddenly the landscape altered- gone was the utopian aspiration of a prosperous united Europe and in it's place was revealed a kind of Neo Liberal death cult that informed it's subjects that from now on they must ask not what the EU can do for them, but what they can do to preserve the EU.

And- it transpires- this new paradigm is roughly as follows; in order to 'save' Europe the people of Europe must henceforth abandon all those things that Europe was supposed to deliver- namely 1) Democracy-now rebranded as 'populism'- 2) Prosperity- now replaced by 'austerity' 3) Unity- see the controlled demolition of Greece by it's EU 'partners' for details.

So it seems that in order to preserve the EU a compete inversion is required wherein the needs, aspirations and living standards of the people's of Europe must be sacrificed in order to create a machine capable of taking on Chinese 'Capitalism' and beat it at it's own game.

Thus we get the ongoing 'austerity' cult which requires it's adherents to accept the absurd proposition that it's somehow possible to increase your prosperity by slashing your wages and social welfare systems in order to become more 'competitive'

Yet if it really were possible to become prosperous via this route why then is Ethiopia not currently an economic superpower?

Surely it's obvious that if you compete on the basis of decimating the living standards of your population then to retain that competitive advantage you must perpetuate that destitution forever?

But- some will argue- what if this is the reality? What if the best future on offer for the Peoples of Europe is a long slow decline into poverty that cannot be altered because that is the inevitable outcome of a Globalised world?

So- it could be claimed- all that the EU is doing is delivering the bad news that it's completely impotent in the face of Globalised capitalism.

Well-ok- but here I have a 'but' of my own- if the EU is indeed impotent to defend the living standards of it's own people in a Globalised world then again the question arises- what is the point of the EU?

It seems to me that at some point in time the EU establishment has 'gone native' and now sees it's role as that of an interlocutor between the demands of international capitalism and the people whose lives must be destroyed to maintain it's stability. The new destiny of the EU bureaucracy is to take on the role of 'useful idiots' and carry out the painful but inescapable eviceration of the living standards of Europeans that is required lest the entire rotten edifice of debt come tumbling down upon the unworthy heads of the greed crazed morons who erected it.

But from the perspective of the average EU citizen the EU is at best irrelevant and at worst a malignant force that does not serve their interests but the interests of a tiny Elite who benefit from the preservation of a debt saturated status quo that can only be preserved at the cost of everything the EU was created to defend in the first place.

[Habeas Domus]

The interfluidity blog explains a lot of this

http://www.interfluidity.com/v2/date/2015/07

[gf3]

It is vry hard to rad a sntnc withot thm

[interestrateripoff]

It's to suck up as much cash as possible and give it to needed causes, especially lining the pockets of European politicians.

[Assume The Opposite]

I did some research into the treaties a while ago as someone said about how sovereignty had been stripped away etc. It led to me to realise that all the mass deregulation and dismantling of our manufacturing/ fisheries base etc may of originated with the EU and their common market wet dream etc. Farage didn't seem so mad after finding this out. Apparently we were designated as a services and finance country.

Can we really be surprised that the politicians of the day in 70s & 80's sold us out? All the horrific abuse cases are coming out and I think we've only scratched the surface.

To answer your point, there is no point in the EU. It's run by former communists and neoliberal bankers. With all the instability of the PIGS we are closer to a war as indebted countries have only the option of either exiting or go to war with Merkel.

[Renewed Investor]

Read a book called "The Grand Chessboard" written by Zbigniew Brzezinski. In that book he discussed the need for the USA to fund a European Super State in order to put pressure on Russia to halt them moving into Eurasia and getting access to all the resources in that region. Rough estimates are that Eurasia holds 75% of the worlds natural resources, whoever owns that land will control the world. But his proposed way of creating a Super State in Europe was to start it off as just a trade agreement and then once interdependence is established push forward with centralizing political power and then forming a European Army to combat Russia if they try to move into Eurasian territory.

[Killer Bunny]

The point of the EU is to enslave us for the benefit of multi nationals and internatioanl bankers.

Obviously.

[Executive Sadman]

When out of any pragmatic arguments, it usually devolves into the perennial 'so we don't have another war'

Of course, this is ********.

1) As many wars have been fought for independence as have been fought as conquests. Forcing disparite cultures and peoples into one, as the EU is doing, typically ends badly.

2) East Asia has in many ways been a mirror imagine of Europe post WW2 (ie germany, japan) North Korea-Eastern bloc vassel state, China=USSR...There has been no hot war between Japan and China despite animosity as great as anything between germany/russia etc...and they have no EU to prevent war.

3) Nuclear weapons have and will continue to prevent another war in Europe. Science, not EUrocrats have given us peace through mutually assured destruction.

[gf3]

It's to suck up as much cash as possible and give it to needed causes, especially lining the pockets of European politicians.

Funny enough I was working at a guy's house. I think he did IT for the EU. However he had a very expensive house so must have earned a bob or two. He couldn't wait to tell me how corrupt they all are. Or at least lining their own pockets was the main thing on their minds.

It is best to think that all politicians are corrupt ( think duck islands ) You need your politicians on a short lead so you can see what they are doing. Give them a long lead and it's duck islands squared.

[stormymonday_2011]

When out of any pragmatic arguments, it usually devolves into the perennial 'so we don't have another war'

Of course, this is ********.

1) As many wars have been fought for independence as have been fought as conquests. Forcing disparite cultures and peoples into one, as the EU is doing, typically ends badly.

2) East Asia has in many ways been a mirror imagine of Europe post WW2 (ie germany, japan) North Korea-Eastern bloc vassel state, China=USSR...There has been no hot war between Japan and China despite animosity as great as anything between germany/russia etc...and they have no EU to prevent war.

3) Nuclear weapons have and will continue to prevent another war in Europe. Science, not EUrocrats have given us peace through mutually assured destruction.

One suspects the presence of Soviet and U.S. tanks may have played a not altogether insignificant role in keeping Europe peaceful in the late 20th century. I don't think the EU had anything to do with it. In fact recent events in the Ukraine and Greece suggest its influence may actually now be starting to undermine the stability of the continent. Given Greece is now facing both an economic and migrant crisis I wonder how long it will be before the army take power there as they have done in the past.

[XswampyX]

One suspects the presence of Soviet and U.S. tanks may have played a not altogether insignificant role in keeping Europe peaceful in the late 20th century. I don't think the EU had anything to do with it. In fact recent events in the Ukraine and Greece suggest its influence may actually now be starting to undermine the stability of the continent. Given Greece is now facing both an economic and migrant crisis I wonder how long it will be before the army take power there as they have done in the past.

I agree and why wouldn't they?

Take control of their country and kick the invading swarm out... the EU can't offer this.

[Grayphil]

I think the EU was firstly to stop war within Europe, think how many lives have been lost in 100 years.........

it was also to help former Soviet states to become financially viable and to break free from Communism.

The idea originally was as a superstate to be able to protect smaller states from the USSR or Russia now....

Im sure the Ukraine wishes it was part of the EU as does Belarus ,

Im writing this from a city called Daugavpils, in Latvia which has similar problems to Donetsk in the Ukraine.... there in a fair chance Putin wants to take back this city also and some residents want to go back to Russia.... the reason Mr Putin hasn't tried to "protect ethnic Russians... a la Donetsk" is because of the EU.........

Im strongly in favour of the EU... and can see what fantastic things its done for some countries, i do agree that Britain has lost more than its gained, but if war broke out with say Russia im sure that any person in Britain would want a united Europe......

The point of Europe is in case of war, and its very short sighted to forget that................

[stormymonday_2011]

I think the EU was firstly to stop war within Europe, think how many lives have been lost in 100 years.........

it was also to help former Soviet states to become financially viable and to break free from Communism.

The idea originally was as a superstate to be able to protect smaller states from the USSR or Russia now....

Im sure the Ukraine wishes it was part of the EU as does Belarus ,

Im writing this from a city called Daugavpils, in Latvia which has similar problems to Donetsk in the Ukraine.... there in a fair chance Putin wants to take back this city also and some residents want to go back to Russia.... the reason Mr Putin hasn't tried to "protect ethnic Russians... a la Donetsk" is because of the EU.........

Im strongly in favour of the EU... and can see what fantastic things its done for some countries, i do agree that Britain has lost more than its gained, but if war broke out with say Russia im sure that any person in Britain would want a united Europe......

The point of Europe is in case of war, and its very short sighted to forget that................

I am afraid Drang Nach Osten does not really resonate with a British audience whose key historical dates are 43 AD and 1066 AD.

[sPinwheel]

Peace.

[1888]

All the control and none of the accountability.

They can enforce law and regulation on individual nations

while the euro allows control of the entire European monetary system.

All are enslaved through debt and like Greece and Cyprus will be betrayed

by their elected representatives even when presented with the democratic

choice of the ballot box .

[canbuywontbuy]

IMO, the point is to centralise power, and therefore remove accountability. Power without responsibility/accountability is what those in power want. Centralisation creates more distance between those in power and those not in power. It's why we don't even have any real democracy in the UK - it's all fuzzy - House of Commons / Lords keep the public at a distance. We're cowed by huge welfare budgets we can't afford. We're pacified by propaganda - we're doing really well, in a 3 year recovery, buy a house and you'll prosper. The opposite of the EU is to decentralise power - nobody in power wants to do that.

[Dorkins]

The question in the OP is meaningless. Organisations are like living creatures, they don't exist because they have a 'point', they exist because they are able to perpetuate themselves.

What is the point of the UK?

[Killer Bunny]

I think the EU was firstly to stop war within Europe, think how many lives have been lost in 100 years.........

it was also to help former Soviet states to become financially viable and to break free from Communism.

The point of Europe is in case of war, and its very short sighted to forget that................

What crock.

The EU is Communism incarnate.

NATO kept peace in Europe. EU is a warmonger. Like all Socialist autocracies.

[Killer Bunny]

The question in the OP is meaningless. Organisations are like living creatures, they don't exist because they have a 'point', they exist because they are able to perpetuate themselves.

What is the point of the UK?

The UK isn't a political construct per se.

[billybong]

The link below is to a pamphlet/booklet from the days when the UK people were voting for or against staying in the Common Market (1975) - with a statement of the aims in those days

http://

www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm

The aims of the Common Market are:

To bring together the peoples of Europe.

To raise living standards and improve working conditions.

To promote growth and boost world trade.

To help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world.

To help maintain peace and freedom.

The idea of loss of sovereignty was very much denied even in the pamphlet and it's disputable whether the loss of sovereignty was necessary to achieve any success towards those aims. It's also very disputable whether British people are/would be better off in than out especially with stuff like crazy house prices, general congestion and all the bureaucracy and petty rules etc etc.

Europe (items 1 and 4 above) in those days wasn't really presented to the UK people as including those countries under the Soviet rule (including East Germany) but who knows what UK politicans had in mind then and wasn't being disclosed or disseminated to the UK people.

Item 5 about peace and freedom was presented to the UK people as mainly about Germany because World War 2 was still very fresh in people's minds then and there were constant reminders of it in the newspapers, on TV and radio as well as in the regular World War 2 movies in those days.

It's also worth mentioning that in the UK in those days most countries in Europe were being considered/presented in the UK as being part of the poorest regions - apart from Germany that is (and the UK of course).

It's interesting how the UK has seemed to go down the european league table in terms of GDP per capita compared to those days - and at that time "our partners in europe" were considered to be the 8 other members of the Common Market (not the current 27). The others then being Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands - of those 8 countries only Italy has a worse GDP per capita than the UK now.

Thers's nothing in the above aims about promoting massive private and public debt - or about hundreds of billions of money printing.

Edited August 9, 2015 by billybong

[Grayphil]

What crock.

The EU is Communism incarnate.

NATO kept peace in Europe. EU is a warmonger. Like all Socialist autocracies.

I think Communism Incarnate is a bit excessive .......and untrue,

Also I think your views regarding Nato are incorrect, you could argue that they have been causing some of the current tensions in the Ukraine..... with the Americans wanting to install the Missile shield.......

The current sanctions against Russia are implemented by the EU not NATO........

[sPinwheel]

What is the point of the UK?

To keep Alfred The Greats' descendents in power forever.

[blobloblob]

So in the event of a war, countries inside the EU will only stick up for other countries inside the EU? Would any non EU countries side with the EU ones?

[Dorkins]

The UK isn't a political construct per se.

Of course it is, the UK is just a 300 year old mini-EU.

[Dorkins]

.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Dorkins