Saving For a Space Ship Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) I've talked to a couple of self employed friends who have had their working tax credit cut by 10% after yearly review, from £52 to £47 a week. I thought this was a big hit, and they said they had no warning / explanation letter. I'm not seen anything in the news and am surprised a google search does not come up with much . More frog boiling ? A lot of this WTC is keeping zombie firms afloat & unemployment figures down, so perhaps we will see a rise in UB figures as it' may not be survivable on WTC and they will jump ship. I think mature single person UB is approx £77 a week EDIT Tax credits entitlement tables: working and have no children https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-credits-entitlement-tables-working-and-have-no-children/tax-credits-entitlement-tables-working-and-have-no-children Edited September 19, 2014 by Saving For a Space Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Less free money. So what ? Want more, work more, that's what I have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Looking to 'close' a loophole and force people on to JSA so they can impose sanctions? Quite possibly, one person had ben on WTC 10 yrs, the other only a yr, so it looks across the board timewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Less free money. So what ? Want more, work more, that's what I have to do. Freeloaders & parasites aside, I was talking about genuine cases of need for people who cannot survive on low wages, so need WTC . It would be great if there was more work to do, but increasingly, there is none, Edited September 19, 2014 by Saving For a Space Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 WTC is one massive elephant not just propping up families but demand for goods and services. Removing the drug is going to be incredibly difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Sooner or later the lack of effective demand in the economy will have to be addressed as will an increasingly workless future as we progress towards a more automated and algorithmic economy. Whether this is by working tax credits or a citizens income or whatever.. I don't think the Tory's trying to apply 19th century economics to a modern automated economy will work, not least destroying work and industry in the first place, and then having the gall to call the victims 'scroungers' something they have been doing since the 80's. Edited September 19, 2014 by aSecureTenant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 WTC is one massive elephant not just propping up families but demand for goods and services. Removing the drug is going to be incredibly difficult. Getting Scotland off our books would free up 9bn a year Im told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Tax credits entitlement tables: working and have no children https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-credits-entitlement-tables-working-and-have-no-children/tax-credits-entitlement-tables-working-and-have-no-children They've filled in Tax Calculator & it says they are only entitled to £28 a week (nearly half of last yr) , yet get £47 dropped from £52 https://www.gov.uk/tax-credits-calculator Edited September 19, 2014 by Saving For a Space Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindigger Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Self Employed. Not worked since Feb. Can't claim a bean as have stash. Not showing on any register. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyme2 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Self Employed. Not worked since Feb. Can't claim a bean as have stash. Not showing on any register. Get a permanent job and immediately get bad back / sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonsaid Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Tax credits entitlement tables: working and have no children https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-credits-entitlement-tables-working-and-have-no-children/tax-credits-entitlement-tables-working-and-have-no-children Can I assume that it's not only single people getting WTC cut?. Birmingham council now charge single people receiving council tax benefit 25% of the bill. Pensioners, people with children not affected. WTF. I'm all for balls to the wall austerity, but it's got to be fair and accross everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b w Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Can I assume that it's not only single people getting WTC cut?. Birmingham council now charge single people receiving council tax benefit 25% of the bill. Pensioners, people with children not affected. WTF. I'm all for balls to the wall austerity, but it's got to be fair and accross everyone. As the benefit system is unfair and perverse i dont see why any austerity (real or fake) would be any different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonsaid Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 As the benefit system is unfair and perverse i dont see why any austerity (real or fake) would be any different Right, bit like home owners getting jam and non home owners having to suck it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bambam Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Self Employed. Not worked since Feb. Can't claim a bean as have stash. Not showing on any register. You can claim tax credits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindigger Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) You can claim tax credits. Really? Ok, will check that out. Thanks. I've not been paying any Class 1 contributions as self employed and thought the WTC for self employed was, or was about to be, means tested. Edited September 19, 2014 by shindigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain'ard Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Getting Scotland off our books would free up 9bn a year Im told. Haven't you heard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinAndPlatonic Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Really? Ok, will check that out. Thanks. I've not been paying any Class 1 contributions as self employed and thought the WTC for self employed was, or was about to be, means tested. No savings are not taken into account. Its just earnings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Freeloaders & parasites aside, I was talking about genuine cases of need for people who cannot survive on low wages, so need WTC . It would be great if there was more work to do, but increasingly, there is none, I've got news for you....people on high wages are struggling to and 60% of their income is being taken off them to support other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm almost certain tax credits are a mechanism to massage unemployment statistics. For both employed and self-employed tax credits represent a huge disincentive to doing too much work and thus spreads the labour requirement, in the market, around the maximum number of people possible. It would probably be cheaper and certainly more efficient to say anyone self-employed earning less than £25k pa can just stay out the tax system entirely. The counter-argument would be the effective ceiling this would impose on further economic activity by this group but I really can't see how tax credits causes any different behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Given govts do everything they can to get people onto every benefit other than unemployment, i'll believe this when I see an official source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm almost certain tax credits are a mechanism to massage unemployment statistics. For both employed and self-employed tax credits represent a huge disincentive to doing too much work and thus spreads the labour requirement, in the market, around the maximum number of people possible. It would probably be cheaper and certainly more efficient to say anyone self-employed earning less than £25k pa can just stay out the tax system entirely. The counter-argument would be the effective ceiling this would impose on further economic activity by this group but I really can't see how tax credits causes any different behaviour. I'll raise your 'almost certain' for a 100%, gold plated, stark bollock naked certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamborn Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 No changes at all in WTC for self employed.If their money has gone down its because their "claimed" earnings have gone up.Nothing more. If single they have to work 30 hours anyway and get the 30 hour top up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) No changes at all in WTC for self employed.If their money has gone down its because their "claimed" earnings have gone up.Nothing more. If single they have to work 30 hours anyway and get the 30 hour top up. There has been no rise in their earning, it has gone down. Edited September 19, 2014 by Saving For a Space Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Get a permanent job and immediately get bad back / sacked. People with cancer are getting chucked off employment support allowance or whatever it's called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Sooner or later the lack of effective demand in the economy will have to be addressed as will an increasingly workless future as we progress towards a more automated and algorithmic economy. Whether this is by working tax credits or a citizens income or whatever.. I don't think the Tory's trying to apply 19th century economics to a modern automated economy will work, not least destroying work and industry in the first place, and then having the gall to call the victims 'scroungers' something they have been doing since the 80's. Industry destroyed itself, and at any rate if they did destroy it which they didn't globalisation of which the great British public eagerly embraced so they could buy their cheap tat was the sweeping change only a few years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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