worried1 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I have posted a few examples of houses (mainly in SE London), where someone has bought it and then tried to flipped it for double within a year. With the market undoubtedly slowing, I have seen much fewer of these lately, but today one has popped up in my area - sold for £270k last September, on at £525k now: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/34108443 In fairness, £270k seems like a great buy last year (in this stupid market), and even £525k is not pushing the limits in a market where this type of flat could be over £600k, but surely people looking to buy will be a bit reticent to hand over anything like the asking price when they can plainly see the sheer amount of profit that would be made in such a short amount of time? Is anyone else still seeing examples of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonpistol Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 ive noticed an increasing amount of asking prices are lower than the last house on the street sold for so i suppose some flippers are going to lose out in the coming months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Of Highbridge Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 No silly increases here as the prices are somewhat tied to (lack of) earnings. I should think the only places to have seen silly increases are city's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I really do not understand who is buying 2 bed flats for half a million £, and what type of jobs do these people have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worried1 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 I really do not understand who is buying 2 bed flats for half a million £, and what type of jobs do these people have? Indeed, and bear in mind that this is outer London as well. Nice area and good train line, but it is not South Kensington! The majority of the buyers in the area are moving down from more central areas of London with pockets full of equity, but most of them are after houses not flats. If this goes in line with previous sales, I expect this to be bought by a couple on a sub-£100k income, a bit of help from Mum & Dad and a whacking great mortgage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonpistol Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I really do not understand who is buying 2 bed flats for half a million £, and what type of jobs do these people have? baffles me too its a LEASE, not even a freehold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifes a game Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 baffles me too its a LEASE, not even a freehold It's best not to have a freehold on the flat as the build is shared it can be super risky. Imagine a block of flats all freehold. Who'd pay for the roof repair? bottom guys say not my roof not my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Yes, posted this last week. Terrace house - 2 up 2 down on a very busy and polluted/noisey road, in Mumbles on for nearly half a million quid asking. Not far away from that another terrace that did not sell for circra 290K asking about 2 years ago now on for half a million. EAs ramping for as much commission as possible IMPO. The market in Swansea is IMPO 90% EA inflated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Yes, posted this last week. Terrace house - 2 up 2 down on a very busy and polluted/noisey road, in Mumbles on for nearly half a million quid asking. Not far away from that another terrace that did not sell for circra 290K asking about 2 years ago now on for half a million. EAs ramping for as much commission as possible IMPO. The market in Swansea is IMPO 90% EA inflated. As I posted on the swansea thread....I drove through the place, LOADS of FOR SALE signs...NO SOLD signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 It's best not to have a freehold on the flat as the build is shared it can be super risky. Imagine a block of flats all freehold. Who'd pay for the roof repair? bottom guys say not my roof not my problem. Clearly you arent aware of the ridiculous prices of leasholds and their renewals. Every other nation in the world manages with freehold flats but not in property parasite nation Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Clearly you arent aware of the ridiculous prices of leasholds and their renewals. Every other nation in the world manages with freehold flats but not in property parasite nation Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juvenal Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I have posted a few examples of houses (mainly in SE London), where someone has bought it and then tried to flipped it for double within a year. With the market undoubtedly slowing, I have seen much fewer of these lately, but today one has popped up in my area - sold for £270k last September, on at £525k now: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/34108443 In fairness, £270k seems like a great buy last year (in this stupid market), and even £525k is not pushing the limits in a market where this type of flat could be over £600k, but surely people looking to buy will be a bit reticent to hand over anything like the asking price when they can plainly see the sheer amount of profit that would be made in such a short amount of time? Is anyone else still seeing examples of this? Is there any evidence that most buyers are even aware of past selling prices? I've met people on their third house that didn't even know you could look up what a vendor had themselves paid. One individual was quite outraged that such 'private' information was publicly available! If the buyers find that a huge profit has been so quickly made, it probably reinforces the wisdom of their own decision to buy such a cracking 'investment'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worried1 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 It's best not to have a freehold on the flat as the build is shared it can be super risky. Imagine a block of flats all freehold. Who'd pay for the roof repair? bottom guys say not my roof not my problem. I'd prefer (share of) freehold. All of the leases and statutes should stay the same and you can just hand over to a management company if you are worried about that type of thing happening. If the lease on a flat like this goes below 80 years, you could be into £25k+ to extend it. With the way these leases often work, that could be £25k every 20 years to keep it 'in good condition', so almost £1k a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worried1 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 Is there any evidence that most buyers are even aware of past selling prices? I've met people on their third house that didn't even know you could look up what a vendor had themselves paid. One individual was quite outraged that such 'private' information was publicly available! If the buyers find that a huge profit has been so quickly made, it probably reinforces the wisdom of their own decision to buy such a cracking 'investment'. Indeed, and it is amazing how stupid some people are when making the biggest 'investment' of their lives. I can only say what I think about it as a potential buyer, and if it is plastered on the actual Zoopla sales page that the vendor is trying to double their money in less than a year, I am more likely to walk away. I like the comment about someone actually being outraged that the information is available. This is a classic old fashioned British reaction and is part of the reason that our property market has allowed to remain so 'smoke & mirrors' for so long. If everyone took notice of these sold prices, I don't think that there is any way that the market would have gone up as quickly as it has done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I have posted a few examples of houses (mainly in SE London), where someone has bought it and then tried to flipped it for double within a year. With the market undoubtedly slowing, I have seen much fewer of these lately, but today one has popped up in my area - sold for £270k last September, on at £525k now: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/34108443 In fairness, £270k seems like a great buy last year (in this stupid market), and even £525k is not pushing the limits in a market where this type of flat could be over £600k, but surely people looking to buy will be a bit reticent to hand over anything like the asking price when they can plainly see the sheer amount of profit that would be made in such a short amount of time? Is anyone else still seeing examples of this? If prices had gone up with wages it would be £400k for a semi detached house in that road (if my rough calculation of £270k in 97). Even that seems expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worried1 Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Contact the agent and ask why there is a big difference in price. Was it remodeled? Was the lease renewed? Was it previously sold at auction? Similar flats recently sold in that area between £350-£480k, so the median is going to be in the low fours. This highlights the major problem with the housing market. There is not enough transparency or access to information: Delusional seller + uninformed buyer = market price. That of course assumes the buyer can afford it. When prices reach that point when he can no longer afford it, then the stack of cards comes tumbling down, and everyone loses. Credit fueled bubbles have no lasting benefits to anyone. They do not create wealth for the vast majority, and cause more havoc than good. I suppose it could have been on a very short lease which has cost a fortune to renew. I think I would have asked the EA to put 'brand new lease' or 'recently purchased share of freehold' in the details if that has happened. I have no doubt it has been remodelled, but that is too tiny a cost to justify a proposed £250k profit. I don't actually think the price is too unreasonable compared to the rest of the crazy market. Decent 2 bed flats always seem to be £450k or more and these will always go for a bit more because of the grandeur of the road and their relative situation compared to the rest of the area. It is just the starkness of the profit and how obvious it is to potential buyers that surprises me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juvenal Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Duplicate post Edited August 11, 2014 by juvenal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankstersparadise Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I like the comment about someone actually being outraged that the information is available. This is a classic old fashioned British reaction and is part of the reason that our property market has allowed to remain so 'smoke & mirrors' for so long I have a friend who works in the fund management industry who was appalled that i looked at land registry data, especially looking at the amount my landlord paid for the flat I was renting at the time. I asked him if he ever looked at the historical prices and valuations of securities he invested in or just looked at the price the broker quoted him on the day. Needless to say there was no comeback and he looked quite embarrassed. I think lots of people don't look at land registry data, doing so would be very un-British. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julieannboo Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Yes last august a studio in tottenham was on for 135k. Now another studio in same block is on for 180k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Yes last august a studio in tottenham was on for 135k. Now another studio in same block is on for 180k. did the one last August sell? If its too good to be true.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julieannboo Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 did the one last August sell? If its too good to be true.... That the mad thing. I wanted to buy it but was outbid at what i thought was a foreign investor. Yet there is no sold price details on zoopla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julieannboo Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Here is the place: End of 2011 was sold for 114k. August 2014 goes on sale for 135k. http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/flat-9/thistle-court/bream-close/london/n17-9bp/30069497 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I have posted a few examples of houses (mainly in SE London), where someone has bought it and then tried to flipped it for double within a year. With the market undoubtedly slowing, I have seen much fewer of these lately, but today one has popped up in my area - sold for £270k last September, on at £525k now: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/34108443 In fairness, £270k seems like a great buy last year (in this stupid market), and even £525k is not pushing the limits in a market where this type of flat could be over £600k, but surely people looking to buy will be a bit reticent to hand over anything like the asking price when they can plainly see the sheer amount of profit that would be made in such a short amount of time? Is anyone else still seeing examples of this? Such a huge increase - even if there has been quite a bit of work - to me points to something dodgy having gone on. E.g. the place was not properly on the open market last time - was sold cheaply to a friend or relative, maybe to avoid or reduce inheritance tax or CGT. I have known personally of one such case. Also, sad to say, a friend's bloke makes a business of buying repos cheaply, tarting them up and selling on. He cheerfully told me that he is best mates with several EAs who tip him the wink when something is coming up, so he gets it before it goes on the open market. Naturally he has 'an arrangement' with EAs for this. There are also cases of EAs dealing with elderly people who are maybe getting a bit doddery and are all too easily hoodwinked into thinking something way below market value is a very good offer. People with early stage dementia and no relatives to help them (or able to intervene in time) are particularly vulnerable. I think I would suspect one of the above. But then I am of a naturally cynical turn of mind. Maybe it was just a case of an EA saying, 'Well, you never know - the way prices have been going lately, no harm in trying...' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonpistol Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 did the one last August sell? If its too good to be true.... the sad thing is until very recently anything in tottenham was selling for made up comedy prices its calmed down a bit now here is a nice example of one that missed the peak http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-27679634.html?premiumA=true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I suppose it could have been on a very short lease which has cost a fortune to renew. I think I would have asked the EA to put 'brand new lease' or 'recently purchased share of freehold' in the details if that has happened. I have no doubt it has been remodelled, but that is too tiny a cost to justify a proposed £250k profit. I don't actually think the price is too unreasonable compared to the rest of the crazy market. Decent 2 bed flats always seem to be £450k or more and these will always go for a bit more because of the grandeur of the road and their relative situation compared to the rest of the area. It is just the starkness of the profit and how obvious it is to potential buyers that surprises me. Short lease is certainly a possibility. More than once I have seen flats that seem pretty cheap for the area, only to find that the lease is just 68 years or something. Under 80 years it is much more expensive to renew. Re looking at the LR, Mr B has and does, particularly in relation to an acquaintance we know to be seriously dodgy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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