azogar Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Do we actually even have any hard proof that the plane was shot down yet? Seems to me that no-one has produced any evidence of anyone firing a missile, other than accusations by both sides. Someone from Janes thinks so http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/world/europe/jet-wreckage-bears-signs-of-impact-by-supersonic-missile-analysis-shows.html?&hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-sake Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Do we actually even have any hard proof that the plane was shot down yet? Seems to me that no-one has produced any evidence of anyone firing a missile, other than accusations by both sides. Given all the crap that we're fed on mainstream media about the 'threat' at airports and the need for ever more ludicrous measures against passengers to stop people bringing water and flat battery phones on board, it's amazing that this angle wasn't even considered by the news media who pretty much were calling for Putin's head 2-3 hours after the incident. It should at least be considered until more facts are known. Talking of facts, for all the youtube clips of dodgy camphone footage of launchers on the move or claimed 'radio intercepts' of people on the ground, it's extremely strange that we haven't seen any sort of 'official' evidence such as ATC conversations or radar traces (which surely must be recorded) or any evidence from military radar/surveillance (from any side). Exactly my thoughts. I couldn't believe the headlines of some so called 'impartial' British media the next day after the tragedy - sheer madness. I wonder what happens it it turns out to be a different story, would anyone apologize? Doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) [deleted - multi-post] Edited July 22, 2014 by Sour Mash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It's also looking more and more unlikely that we will ever get a proper investigation of the wreckage itself - still no sign of crash investigators. Yesterday evening a Channel 4 journalist on the ground actually managed to as a genuine question along the lines of: 'If we journalists and the Dutch medical/forensic team can get to the crash site and move around with relative freedom, where are the air crash investigators?'. Now we are hearing allegations (unsubstantiated of course) reported as fact, that 'The rebels are interfering with/moving wreckage', seemingly designed to cast even more doubt on whatever any crash investigators report might produce. It's all about as shady as it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Americans will apparently be presenting some evidence soon. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the issue of the unidentified fighter aircraft (if they address it at all). There is little doubt that it was present in the MH17 flightpath at the time of the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Someone from Janes thinks so http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/world/europe/jet-wreckage-bears-signs-of-impact-by-supersonic-missile-analysis-shows.html?&hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=3 They still haven't decided what happened to TWA800 which went down after flying over a naval exercise on July 17 1996. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay Beautiful Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Amnesty International and the War in Ukrainehttp://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/21/amnesty-international-and-the-war-in-ukraine/some exerts:The facts show that EuroMaidan authorities started the terror campaign promptly after toppling the former government, that is to say long before the start of the war. The spiral of violence raging now in Eastern Ukraine is the sequel of the geopolitical drama called EuroMaidan.In addition, to see the whole scale of violence in Ukraine one should gather information about abductions, tortures and other ill-treatment throughout the country and not only in Eastern Ukraine. And the time period should be enlarged: it`s necessary to take into consideration all of the violence perpetrated since the victory of EuroMaidan and not only since the beginning of the hostilities.When the new post-EuroMaidan government was formed it unleashed unprecedented repressive measures, which became more and more stringent and violent.After EuroMidan, Ukraine is a country full of political prisoners. Perhaps this conflict should not be seen in simplistic terms of East vs. West. The participants of the Maidan revolution wanted to take down a system of structural corruption associated with the oligarchical plundering of the country. It was not so much a statement against Russian influence as against the oligarchic regime. Yanukovich’s refusal to sign the EU accord was merely the flashpoint. Even though it was the correct choice, given that the EU was offering nothing but austerity and pain, it robbed the people of any hope for change. (As we know, the revolution was hijacked by a competing group of oligarchs (Kolomoisky, Tymoshenko etc)in conjunction with the neo-Nazis they financed. This was not simply taking advantage of an opportunistic situation, but rather had been planned well in advance, waiting for the right moment. The competing oligarchs had to do something to protect their fortunes which were being cannibalised by the Yanukovich clan.)We now have the people in western Ukraine living under a different, and far more brutal oligarchic regime, clinging to the fading illusion that the EU agreement will somehow make their lives better. They have not yet come to grips with the reality of their situation, and the few that did are being ruthlessly suppressed. There was no great animosity towards eastern Ukraine prior to the revolution just as there was no reciprocal animosity from the east. People, for the part, just want to get on with their lives. What changed the dynamic was the annexation of Crimea (a rational and prudent move by Putin). It brought back memories of the Soviet Union and galvanized a spirit of Ukrainian nationalism. The rebellion in the east only reinforces this perception as it is viewed in terms of us vs. them. This has shifted the focus from the real problem, the fascist oligarchic regime now running the country. They are cynically exploiting the situation by pushing through austerity measures and consolidating their power. Lets not overlook the fact that the media infrastructure in Ukraine is 100% owned and controlled by the oligarchs; any dissenting voices crushed by the neo-Nazis. Therefore the narrative of the situation is defined by their parameters - an ideal condition for propaganda control. And when people turn to western media via the internet, what do they get - more propaganda demonizing Putin.The people in the west are being conditioned (brainwashed) to perceive the conflict in terms defined by the regime and for the most part may not even be aware of the extent of the atrocities taking place in the east. Todemonize them as hating eastern Ukrainians is too simplistic. Other than a few rabid nationalists they have no special hate. They don’t want a war where their sons are forced to fight other Ukrainians. They, as with most people, just want to get on with their lives. This is a different kind of atrocity being perpetrated on all Ukrainians by the degenerate oligarchal regime, fully supported by the Americans. Thanks to anonymous Edited July 22, 2014 by Stay Beautiful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Americans will apparently be presenting some evidence soon. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the issue of the unidentified fighter aircraft (if they address it at all). There is little doubt that it was present in the MH17 flightpath at the time of the incident. Laughable American press conference with 'Intelligence' representatives. No actual evidence presented, just more assertions and nonsense. They have totally lost the plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Poroshenko Demands Ukraine Separatists Be Declared "Terrorists" Under International Law As the tit-for-tat public relations blitz continues to play out, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has demanded that the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and Luhansk People's Republic (LPR) be recognized as terrorist organizations, "so that any cooperation or support the terrorists receive is recognized as such under international law." Now that the US has 'proved' that the separatists shot down MH17, we suspect the calls will grow louder... even as Poroshenko says he opposes martial law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 BRUSSELS, July 23 (RIA Novosti) — Russia handed all of its Defense Ministry’s data on the Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine to the European Union, but has seen no reaction yet, Russia’s envoy to the European Union Vladimir Chizhov said Wednesday. “We handed it [data] on Tuesday, as soon as we got it in writing in Russian and English. We forwarded it to all the people concerned,” Chizhov told journalists in Brussels. “There has been no reaction so far,” Chizhov added. http://en.ria.ru/world/20140723/191126347/Russia-Hands-Data-on-MH17-Crash-to-EC-Awaits-Reaction---Russias.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 MH17: Russian companies face $112bn wall of debt Europe braced for any gas crisis as Russia sanctions escalate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Emergency meeting of the State Duma apparently been called by Putin. Scheduled for tomorrow. Rumours on social media (VContact) of Russia troops saying that they are off to Ukraine imminently ... NATO will not dare to intervene if Russia steams over the border with 100,000 men (bearing in mind there are already 25,000 + in Crimea). Edited July 23, 2014 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay Beautiful Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Emergency meeting of the State Duma apparently been called by Putin. Scheduled for tomorrow. Rumours on social media (VContact) of Russia troops saying that they are off to Ukraine imminently ... NATO will not dare to intervene if Russia steams over the border with 100,000 men (bearing in mind there are already 25,000 + in Crimea). http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/07/23/putin-calls-an-emergency-state-duma-session-regarding-ukraine/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Revealed: The knights, peers and even members of the Royal Family who are now on the payroll of Russian oligarchs Among those with close links is Lord Mandelson who is a non-executive director of the Russian conglomerate Sistema, which boasts stakes in Russia’s oil and energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Now an Algerian plane is missing in the Sahara: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28460625 Bound to be a Putin angle that the media can somehow spin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Now an Algerian plane is missing in the Sahara: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28460625 Bound to be a Putin angle that the media can somehow spin.... Blatently Putin's fault. I'm sure at least one of the terrorists uses an AK-47 or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 BREAKING: Yatsenyuk resigns as Ukraine premier as new elections sought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Emergency meeting of the State Duma apparently been called by Putin. Scheduled for tomorrow. Rumours on social media (VContact) of Russia troops saying that they are off to Ukraine imminently ... NATO will not dare to intervene if Russia steams over the border with 100,000 men (bearing in mind there are already 25,000 + in Crimea). This Duma meeting business seems to have been merely an internet rumour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I think the meeting is still going ahead. Not sure of time or sequence of events etc. Possibly the situation is so fluid that even the Russians don't know when the meeting is. Putin will just summon them to the room when they are needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenpig Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) I realise we are all guilty of inconsistencies in our reasoning, and perhaps I'm gaining the impression from amalgamating different posters, but I keep getting the impression that that Putin's 5th column here seem to be trying both to deny that Russia has anything to do with it, and simultaneoulsy celebrating any rumour that Russia may be involved in any actual fighting, the supremacy of Russian troops, training, equipment etc. Edited July 25, 2014 by BigPig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) What do the EU/US '5th Column' think? None of this would have happened if the EU/US hadn't deliberately formented and financed an armed rebellion in Ukraine. Edited July 25, 2014 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 40 MORTAR SHELLS HIT RUSSIAN TERRITORY DURING THE COURSE OF THE MORNING- statement from Russian border officials How much longer will Russia put up with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Why Is The Obama Government Starting A War With Russia? http://investmentresearchdynamics.com/why-is-the-obama-government-starting-a-war-with-russia/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damik Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I realise we are all guilty of inconsistencies in our reasoning, and perhaps I'm gaining the impression from amalgamating different posters, but I keep getting the impression that that Putin's 5th column here seem to be trying both to deny that Russia has anything to do with it, and simultaneoulsy celebrating any rumour that Russia may be involved in any actual fighting, the supremacy of Russian troops, training, equipment etc. Never mind. German business is turning now against little Putler, so hopefully the proper sanctions will get rid of him. Russians deserve normal leaders ... http://www.easybranches.eu/european-news/1691075.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Putin is the best thing that has happened to Russia for a long time. He is a thorn in the side of the West because he won't sit down and take the US hegemony. Russian people see this, which is why his approval rating is at all time highs (80%+). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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