Errol Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Analysis is beginning to show that a BUK was not involved. Damage looks to be consistent with an air-to-air missile or possibly onboard explosion (bomb). Edited July 20, 2014 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay Beautiful Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Analysis is beginning to show that a BUK was not involved. Damage looks to be consistent with an air-to-air missile or possibly onboard explosion (bomb). R-27 Topor R-73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Analysis is beginning to show that a BUK was not involved. Damage looks to be consistent with an air-to-air missile or possibly onboard explosion (bomb). Do you have a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Good article from Pepe Escobar, with the closing words: 'As for Washington's hysterical claims of credibility, I leave you with just one number: Iran Air 655'. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-190714.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay Beautiful Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Someone should ask Yulia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-20/russian-billionaires-in-horror-as-putin-risks-isolation.html Russia’s richest businessmen are increasingly frantic that President Vladimir Putin’s policies in Ukraine will lead to crippling sanctions and are too scared of reprisal to say so publicly, billionaires and analysts said. If Putin doesn’t move to end the war in Ukraine in the wake of last week’s downing of a Malaysia Air jet in rebel-held territory, he risks becoming an international outcast like Belarus’s Aleksandr Lukashenko, whom the U.S. famously labeled Europe’s last dictator, one Russian billionaire said on condition of anonymity. What’s happening is bad for business and bad for Russia, he said. “The economic and business elite is just in horror,” said Igor Bunin, who heads the Center for Political Technology in Moscow. Nobody will speak out because of the implicit threat of retribution, Bunin said by phone yesterday. “Any sign of rebellion and they’ll be brought to their knees.” I wonder if any of the billionaires are really upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Brit student ‘left UK to fight with rebels’ in UkraineA STUDENT at a British university was reported yesterday to be a staunch supporter of t... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Brit student ‘left UK to fight with rebels’ in UkraineA STUDENT at a British university was reported yesterday to be a staunch supporter of t... Communist Beness Aijo, 29, is a Latvian citizen who lived here for four years while taking a degree in microbiology at London University’s Birkbeck College. Photos reportedly showed the father-of-one in battle fatigues alongside the separatists as he accused Ukraine – not the rebels – of shooting down the Malaysian jet. Lived here once and suspiciously tanned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX Ukrainian air defense forces had 3-4 battalions of Buk-M1 systems on combat duty on day of #MH17 plane crash - Russian military RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17 Ukrainian Su-25 fighter recorded in close approach to MH17 before crash - Russian military also - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/putin-makes-first-official-statement-russia-cut-ibm-microsoft-dependence-complete-uk Edited July 21, 2014 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 China Blasts "One-Sided Western Rush To Judge Russia" Over MH17 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/china-blasts-one-sided-western-rush-judge-russia-over-mh17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Russia defense ministry says didn't detect missiles launched near Malaysian jet path, asks #US to share satellite images "if they have them" Quite right. If the US claims to have evidence it should show it, including the computer calculations and methods used to obtain it. Russia is much closer to the area and detected no launches. The plot thickens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) BOOM. Russian military effectively confirm that they believe MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian fighter jet. The Russian military detected a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the MH17 Boeing on the day of the catastrophe. Kiev must explain why the military jet was tracking the passenger airplane, the Russian Defense Ministry said.“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” . Edited July 21, 2014 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Russian Military just gave a presentation showing that a Ukraininan fighter jet shot down MH17. They showed precise radar tracking, computer imagery showing the positions and tracks of the aircraft etc etc. All evidence from radar stations and other listening posts. Meanwhile, John Kerry is pointing to Youtube videos as evidence. Pathetic. The US/EU game is up. Edited July 21, 2014 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Errol, Any links? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) . Edited July 21, 2014 by libspero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Errol, Any links? Russian Defence Ministry gave a briefing today - with pictures, images showing positions of aircraft (including the Ukrainian fighter that WAS in the immediate vicinity). http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/ Edited July 21, 2014 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Also - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1 - for a good summary of the Russian position and recent briefing. And - Full briefing from Defence Ministry on youtube with translation - RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it? RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA Edited July 21, 2014 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenpig Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Russian Defence Ministry gave a briefing today - with pictures, images showing positions of aircraft (including the Ukrainian fighter that WAS in the immediate vicinity). http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/ From the article: "In addition, MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said." So basically: "We know it was the Ukrainians wot did it, we just haven't decided yet on how" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Russian Defence Ministry gave a briefing today - with pictures, images showing positions of aircraft Thanks! (I don't have great browsing access here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Come on, guys. The media has already decided that 'Putin killed our loved ones' . . . don't any of you walk past a news stand? And not only that, he has looted and stolen all the corpses and put them on a 'train of death' . . . it is really interesting how the print editions of newspapers today take more licence than on the net. Sunday's print editions, 'Putin Killed My Son' etc., would normally attract quite a few million in libel fees. Anyway, the subject will probably attract as many conspiracy theories as 9/l1. But only on forums as obscure as this. Personally. I think we should be questioning the EU's role in all of this . . . and where our EU Taxes should be going . . . I think there the EU has a very difficult case to answer. Everyone in Kiev knows who was paid to wave blue and gold flags and wear EU face paints . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Come on, guys. The media has already decided that 'Putin killed our loved ones' . . . don't any of you walk past a news stand? And not only that, he has looted and stolen all the corpses and put them on a 'train of death' . . . it is really interesting how the print editions of newspapers today take more licence than on the net. Sunday's print editions, 'Putin Killed My Son' etc., would normally attract quite a few million in libel fees. Anyway, the subject will probably attract as many conspiracy theories as 9/l1. But only on forums as obscure as this. Personally. I think we should be questioning the EU's role in all of this . . . and where our EU Taxes should be going . . . I think there the EU has a very difficult case to answer. Everyone in Kiev knows who was paid to wave blue and gold flags and wear EU face paints . . . There is far more discussion on the off-topic forum. HPC is not obscure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-sake Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Come on, guys. The media has already decided that 'Putin killed our loved ones' . . . don't any of you walk past a news stand? And not only that, he has looted and stolen all the corpses and put them on a 'train of death' . . . it is really interesting how the print editions of newspapers today take more licence than on the net. Sunday's print editions, 'Putin Killed My Son' etc., would normally attract quite a few million in libel fees. Anyway, the subject will probably attract as many conspiracy theories as 9/l1. But only on forums as obscure as this. Personally. I think we should be questioning the EU's role in all of this . . . and where our EU Taxes should be going . . . I think there the EU has a very difficult case to answer. Everyone in Kiev knows who was paid to wave blue and gold flags and wear EU face paints . . . Sadly, I have to agree you - most people are busy swallowing whatever they are fed by the media. Having a think is probably too much to ask for nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Sadly, I have to agree you - most people are busy swallowing whatever they are fed by the media. Having a think is probably too much to ask for nowadays. Exceptions of course being Russia Today, Zerohedge, and Youtube Videos. These sources are always the truth and their reporting credentials infallible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-sake Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Exceptions of course being Russia Today, Zerohedge, and Youtube Videos. These sources are always the truth and their reporting credentials infallible I'll take your word for it as you obviously the only one who always knows best. As for me, I never watch Russia Today nor read Zerohedge. But I do tend to trust my eyes. Edited July 22, 2014 by F-sake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Do we actually even have any hard proof that the plane was shot down yet? Seems to me that no-one has produced any evidence of anyone firing a missile, other than accusations by both sides. Given all the crap that we're fed on mainstream media about the 'threat' at airports and the need for ever more ludicrous measures against passengers to stop people bringing water and flat battery phones on board, it's amazing that this angle wasn't even considered by the news media who pretty much were calling for Putin's head 2-3 hours after the incident. It should at least be considered until more facts are known. Talking of facts, for all the youtube clips of dodgy camphone footage of launchers on the move or claimed 'radio intercepts' of people on the ground, it's extremely strange that we haven't seen any sort of 'official' evidence such as ATC conversations or radar traces (which surely must be recorded) or any evidence from military radar/surveillance (from any side). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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