interestrateripoff Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25593532 Commuters who move to cheaper accommodation outside London may not be saving as much as they think.Research by the estate agency Haart suggests that around half of such savings are immediately eaten up by the cost of train fares, which rose by an average of 2.8% last week. Allowing for season ticket costs, some areas can be more expensive to live in than London itself. But other towns provide an average cost advantage of more than £8,000 a year. The research suggested commuters moving to Oxford or Cambridge would find the cost of a season ticket more than outweighs the benefits of cheaper housing. Thus, a commuter moving to Cambridge may save £3,730 a year on the cost of a mortgage, but will pay £4,160 for a season ticket, leaving him or her £430 out of pocket. Someone moving to Oxford will fare even worse, ending up more than £2,000 a year worse off. Oxford has relatively high property prices. Another ramping for London property? It's a pity work cannot be located away from London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olebrum Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 People paying 20% of their wages simply travelling to work. Utter madness and another death cut to the improving creaking economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappycocco Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Public transport. One of the only games in town where a union doesn't go bust. What is the point privatising it if a union is going to run it. What I don't understand is why these people move so far away from work, why not just move to some cheap area on the outskirts of london. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_George Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Oxford and Cambridge have nuts house prices too. Why suggest there? The transport links are good, but I wouldn't have thought it makes financial sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olebrum Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Public transport. One of the only games in town where a union doesn't go bust. What is the point privatising it if a union is going to run it. What I don't understand is why these people move so far away from work, why not just move to some cheap area on the outskirts of london. A cheap area on the outskirts of London, name one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timak Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 A cheap area on the outskirts of London, name one. Ashford, Kent. 37 minutes into London - house prices a fraction of most other surrounding areas. Train ridiculously expensive though which probably does cancel out the savings as the article implies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) What I don't understand is why these people move so far away from work, why not just move to some cheap area on the outskirts of london. Commuting from the edge of London can actually end up giving you a significantly longer commute than a good train connection from the surrounding counties. It can also be quite a dull place with less life in the local town centres than a town of the same size in a normal county would have as many people just go into central London for shopping and entertainment. You end up commuting both for work and leisure activities, which grates after a while. Some of the edge of London can be pretty ugly and polluted if it provides large quantities of infrastructure needed to support London (e.g. major roads/railways/airports, depots, sewage works). In general my experience is that the housing market around London is extremely efficient. You get what you pay for and there are almost no undiscovered bargains. If you find a way to shorten your commute your quality of life will probably end up declining in some other way (e.g. higher housing costs, worse area). Edited January 6, 2014 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Of Highbridge Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 No ned for people to live in Cambridge and commute. There is enough space to build a million new homes around Epping, Potters Bar, Barnet etc.. It would be better for the environment and the economy to have people live nearer to London than commute umpteen miles due to some arbitrary green belt that was shortsightedly inserted in the 50's without room for compromise. Of course the greeny non-humanists would insist on highrise flats without gardens within the City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Ashford, Kent. 37 minutes into London - house prices a fraction of most other surrounding areas. Train ridiculously expensive though which probably does cancel out the savings as the article implies. There are a few properties coming up for rent in Ashford soon too. It's so flipping obvious that the solution is to build more around London and elsewhere. Watch the party of family and aspiration contort its ideology to arrive at reasons why having more people spending more time away from their family, and paying more for the pleasure, is commensurate with the values of the party, rather than building some more houses. Edited January 6, 2014 by The B.L.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timak Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I was about to post that it was ridiculous to say Cambridge was cheaper to live in than somewhere like Tooting. Then I searched Rightmove for an example. Nope it is cheaper in Cambridge. Who the heck pays £400k for a 2 bedroom ground floor flat in Tooting?! The place is a dump with poor transport links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) You can't win in Rentier UK UK is a monopoly board all bought up with several houses and hotels on them. Do not pass go, do not collect £200 (well unless you are a rentier). Your only hope is pulling a 'go straight to jail' card from the community chest. Edited January 6, 2014 by aSecureTenant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) why not just move to some cheap area on the outskirts of london. Like where ?. At least on the south west to north west side I dont of any "cheap" places to live that less than 30/40 miles away from the city. Edited January 6, 2014 by goldbug9999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Who the heck pays £400k for a 2 bedroom ground floor flat in Tooting?! The place is a dump with poor transport links. The transport links are rather good, but your point remains valid. The answer is the people who used to buy in Balham who are the people who used to by in Clapham, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Like where ?. At least on the south west to north west side I dont of any "cheap" places to live that less than 30/40 miles away from the city. Romford/Harold Hill seemed relatively cheap when I lived there a few years ago. Well I say cheap, a 2/3 bed semi would have cost the same as a Dockland slave box. Edited January 6, 2014 by aSecureTenant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So theres no such thing as a free lunch and a trade off to be made. Well i'll be. The laughable thing is that just as London workers have been priced out and now live in towns like Cambridge, so Cambridge workers have thus been priced out of Cambridge and have to commute from smaller towns like Ely and huntington 15 or 20 miles away. The result....daily traffic armageddon. All because London doesnt want to touch its pristine pesticide addled 'green' belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Oxford and Cambridge have nuts house prices too. Why suggest there? The transport links are good, but I wouldn't have thought it makes financial sense. Most the cheapest housing in similar distance towns is either in areas not befitting London yuppies and their superior tastes or else train tickets are even more of a rip off. Last time i checked, a season ticket from Wellingborough to london was a grand more than cambridge to london despite a shorter journey time. Other than oxford cambridge brighton, what other towns in the south east have the necessary cachet. The rest are all new towns, too small to have a good rail link, or worst of all, Luton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLizard Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 You can't win in Rentier UK UK is a monopoly board all bought up with several houses and hotels on them. Do not pass go, do not collect £200 (well unless you are a rentier). Your only hope is pulling a 'go straight to jail' card from the community chest. Maybe we need to somehow push the message that we're in a situation where housing and transport costs are as damaging as the high-end income taxes rates of the 1970s - except these costs apply across the whole income range... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Wife took on a massive commute (work was hard to find at the time). She had to go in and out of London. 2 and a half hours door to door, about 63 miles. She only did it for 2 years, thankfully she works local now. Current price for that ticket 4 years on .... £740 a month....the same price as renting a 2 bed flat locally. I gave up on London when tickets were £95 a week with zones 1-6, now its close to £125 a week (£470 monthly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The laughable thing is that just as London workers have been priced out and now live in towns like Cambridge, so Cambridge workers have thus been priced out of Cambridge and have to commute from smaller towns like Ely and huntington 15 or 20 miles away. The result....daily traffic armageddon. It's good for GDP though, just think of all the extra vehicle maintenance and replacement, fuel consumption, road resurfacing, insurance premiums and payouts, accident cleanups, medical treatment for respiratory illnesses caused by inhaling exhaust and cardiovascular diseases caused by chronic stress etc. People being able to walk or cycle to work for pennies a day and having more time to spend at home with their families would be very bad for the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) It's a pity work cannot be located away from London. It can........only work comes from many people in an area spending money creating services and consumption jobs.....more people pushed into the same space only means more people having to share the same space and resourses keeping them all in wages/benefits, creating high rents and high equity but no extra space only more congestion and demands.....businesses move to where there are high numbers of people who have to spend money to live Edited January 6, 2014 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worried1 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 What they seem to be missing here is that most people who live in 'London' don't actually live in zone 1 so will also have a season ticket cost. My commute from zone 6 is short in terms of time and distance, but still costs £1,700 each year. A 2 bed flat costs £1,500 per month to rent here and would be at least £2,500 for an equivalent zone 1 area so it works out for me. Even people who live in zone 1 will often have to get a tube each day and that could add up to £1k a year. Once the Londoners commuting costs are subtracted, the savings generated by moving out look a bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 It's good for GDP though, just think of all the extra vehicle maintenance and replacement, fuel consumption, road resurfacing, insurance premiums and payouts, accident cleanups, medical treatment for respiratory illnesses caused by inhaling exhaust and cardiovascular diseases caused by chronic stress etc. People being able to walk or cycle to work for pennies a day and having more time to spend at home with their families would be very bad for the economy. Indeed. Cambridge university, after decades of forcing all development onto neighbouring areas is finally releasing green belt land close to the city, although it'll mostly be student housing and shoe box flats, so youre tough out of luck if you're a family. Just Shows the degree to which certain lobbies hold power. The horseracing lot wont allow any development in newmarket either, despite the a14 between there and cambridge being just about the only uncongested route into cambridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotnocrash Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The other thing to be considered is the cost if getting so the station, unless you are in walking distance, where house prices will be higher. You may need to run 1 more car than you needed in London, plus the costs of parking at the station. We briefly considered moving out of London and commuting, but with both of us working in the city the numbers just didn't stack up, even without considering the need for additional child care given the longer commute and therefore earlier departure from home and later return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slacker Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 We briefly considered moving out of London and commuting, but with both of us working in the city the numbers just didn't stack up It does all feel rather precarious at the moment or maybe 'boiling a frog' is a better phrase. Every month a cost increases, so you look at other savings - cut Sky, shop at Lidl, stop eating out etc. Once those are exhausted you start looking a moving/commuting alternatives but they don't add up - or they don't start producing a net for 2 years. TPTB are probably thinking everyone has absorbed it all quite well so far and, like Osborne's statement this morning on chipping a bit more away, believe there is more elasticity - but don't realise it's not a slope down for many people - it's a cliff. At some point there are no more cuts to make. Everyone I know with kids is broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Everyone I know with kids is broke. Should they have had children if their financial situation was that tight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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