Is Prime London Crashing? - Merged Threads

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Seeing an increasing number of BTL properties hitting the market and desperation.

Example of BTL: I genuinely cannot recall a 90 SQM property there for under £500k in the last 2 years, note the comment "PRICED NOT TO SELL" - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-58709399.html?onetime_savedPropertyId=58709399#summary58709399

Desperation: The £515k property http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=POSTCODE^1270585&maxBedrooms=2&minBedrooms=2&maxPrice=550000&minPrice=500000&numberOfPropertiesPerPage=24&radius=1.0&sortType=1&index=0&viewType=LIST

This one almost pops up daily in my rightmove updates, multiple agents ( I think 4 at one point), 550k to 535k to 515k. Still over last years values though, as a 55sqm of similar refurb condition went for £49x.xx with a full 125 year lease.

[Madcrash]

The prices rises rippled out.

The price collapse will also ripple out.

Absolutely the crash has started in prime London, it'll get to your neck of the woods eventually. Hopefully the bust will happen faster than the boom.

[pras]

I have been on this site a long time and I believe in what's discussed here. Unfortunately I have decided to buy and I am in the final phases of purchase! I am very annoyed at the stupid price I had to offer to beat the competition. Oh well!

[Madcrash]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/panama-leaks-warning-over-blow-to-londons-property-market-a3219231.html

Peter Wetherell, chief executive of Mayfair firm Wetherell, said potential buyers who would normally make their purchases through offshore companies may now decide to rent instead.

He said: This latest Panama issue uncovers where wealthy people are putting or investing their money, so it going public is a massive loss of privacy for the people concerned. Some ultra wealthy may choose to rent rather than buy and face these types of politically sensitive offshore company issues.

With property ownership helping to prove domicile and the UK courts being used increasingly for international litigation I can see quite a few people used to washing I'll gotten gains through London property becoming twitchy over the past few days.

Which fools are waiting in the wings to pick these houses up when they need to be disposed of in a hurry and the cash re-laundered?

[suntory]

I have been on this site a long time and I believe in what's discussed here. Unfortunately I have decided to buy and I am in the final phases of purchase! I am very annoyed at the stupid price I had to offer to beat the competition. Oh well!

Are you serious. You caved in now? Now? I mean you could have waited until after the referendum to the very least ....

[zugzwang]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/panama-leaks-warning-over-blow-to-londons-property-market-a3219231.html

Peter Wetherell, chief executive of Mayfair firm Wetherell, said potential buyers who would normally make their purchases through offshore companies may now decide to rent instead.

He said: This latest Panama issue uncovers where wealthy people are putting or investing their money, so it going public is a massive loss of privacy for the people concerned. Some ultra wealthy may choose to rent rather than buy and face these types of politically sensitive offshore company issues.

With property ownership helping to prove domicile and the UK courts being used increasingly for international litigation I can see quite a few people used to washing I'll gotten gains through London property becoming twitchy over the past few days.

Which fools are waiting in the wings to pick these houses up when they need to be disposed of in a hurry and the cash re-laundered?

It's game over if the City ever loses its status as dirty money capital of the world.

[suntory]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/panama-leaks-warning-over-blow-to-londons-property-market-a3219231.html

Peter Wetherell, chief executive of Mayfair firm Wetherell, said potential buyers who would normally make their purchases through offshore companies may now decide to rent instead.

He said: This latest Panama issue uncovers where wealthy people are putting or investing their money, so it going public is a massive loss of privacy for the people concerned. Some ultra wealthy may choose to rent rather than buy and face these types of politically sensitive offshore company issues.

With property ownership helping to prove domicile and the UK courts being used increasingly for international litigation I can see quite a few people used to washing I'll gotten gains through London property becoming twitchy over the past few days.

Which fools are waiting in the wings to pick these houses up when they need to be disposed of in a hurry and the cash re-laundered?

I honestly think that Mossack Fonseca was the nail in the coffin for PCL!!!!

[suntory]

It's game over if the City ever loses its status as dirty money capital of the world.

Exactly. I think this is what this whole Mossback Fonseca thing is building up to. The political winds have clearly shifted and if the government doesn't act soon, things could unravel for them fairly quickly. Look at what happened to the Icelandic guy ....

[richc]

Are you serious. You caved in now? Now? I mean you could have waited until after the referendum to the very least ....

Everyone has their own circumstances, but this really does seem like a particularly poor time to be buying anything. You would have been competing with the last batch of BTL lemmings buying to beat the extra stamp duty deadline. Waiting a month would have saved you several thousand pounds.

[suntory]

Everyone has their own circumstances, but this really does seem like a particularly poor time to be buying anything. You would have been competing with the last batch of BTL lemmings buying to beat the extra stamp duty deadline. Waiting a month would have saved you several thousand pounds.

Depends on which postcode and what price range. If it was SW8, we are talking about several tens of thousands of pounds. See my chart below in a couple of minutes.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Everyone has their own circumstances, but this really does seem like a particularly poor time to be buying anything.

Understatement of the decade

[spyguy]

It's game over if the City ever loses its status as dirty money capital of the world.

No, its game over if you cannot own a property via a hidden 3rd party.

Sooner we have a proper, property register and ban dubios offshore holding, the better.

[suntory]

After Mossack Fonseca, things continue to deteriorate in SW8. The chart below depicts the average reduction in percent for the top 100 reductions in SW8. Today another 5 properties entered into the top 100 and the day is far from over. Check out this beauty:

[Madcrash]

I honestly think that Mossack Fonseca was the nail in the coffin for PCL!!!!

We've also got a prime minister who's up to his neck in it (four statements on his tax affairs and still hasn't fully answered the question that was originally put to him). He will have to be seen to be toughening up on this sort of tax evasion to shore up his position.

Tough talk to put the frighteners on people in the meantime, legislation might follow.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

After Mossack Fonseca, things continue to deteriorate IMPROVE in SW8. The chart below depicts the average reduction in percent for the top 100 reductions in SW8. Today another 5 properties entered into the top 100 and the day is far from over. Check out this beauty:

[suntory]

Ye

After Mossack Fonseca, things continue to deteriorate IMPROVE in SW8. The chart below depicts the average reduction in percent for the top 100 reductions in SW8. Today another 5 properties entered into the top 100 and the day is far from over. Check out this beauty:

Yes, of course. Things are improving at a dramatic speed.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

We've also got a prime minister who's up to his neck in it (four statements on his tax affairs and still hasn't fully answered the question that was originally put to him). He will have to be seen to be toughening up on this sort of tax evasion to shore up his position.

Tough talk to put the frighteners on people in the meantime, legislation might follow.

maybe it's time for a general tax strike. So many self employed/massive council tax payments the tax payers could easily bring down the government.

[suntory]

We've also got a prime minister who's up to his neck in it (four statements on his tax affairs and still hasn't fully answered the question that was originally put to him). He will have to be seen to be toughening up on this sort of tax evasion to shore up his position.

Tough talk to put the frighteners on people in the meantime, legislation might follow.

Exactly: its all about sentiment.

[Madcrash]

Exactly: its all about sentiment.

Indeed.

1) London is no longer a place to invest in property as the tax situation continues to deteriorate for speculators

2) London is no longer as friendly to dodgy money as it was so situation deteriorates for criminals and the corrupt.

That's two significant market props kicked away in a few months.

[Amiinsane]

I don't think we'll see much in the way of changes as a result of the Panama Papers. Too many powerful people involved pulling too many strings. They'll ride it out - find a couple of sacrificial lambs - and then things will carry as before.

It would be simple to levy a tax or make holding residential property through offshore companies illegal, but why would you inconvenience the people who grease your palm?

Iceland is a different matter, it's a far more democratic country with an empowered population. The sheep over here will be distracted by a bit of celebrity nonsense in a couple of days.

[spyguy]

Indeed.

1) London is no longer a place to invest in property as the tax situation continues to deteriorate for speculators

2) London is no longer as friendly to dodgy money as it was so situation deteriorates for criminals and the corrupt.

That's two significant market props kicked away in a few months.

Only need to get rid of the foreign doleys, sat around on HB and itll crash.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Indeed.

1) London is no longer a place to invest in property as the tax situation continues to deteriorate for speculators

2) London is no longer as friendly to dodgy money as it was so situation deteriorates for criminals and the corrupt.

That's two significant market props kicked away in a few months.

3) London propery is no longer affordable to people.

4) London is f**ed

[Madcrash]

I don't think we'll see much in the way of changes as a result of the Panama Papers. Too many powerful people involved pulling too many strings. They'll ride it out - find a couple of sacrificial lambs - and then things will carry as before.

It would be simple to levy a tax or make holding residential property through offshore companies illegal, but why would you inconvenience the people who grease your palm?

Iceland is a different matter, it's a far more democratic country with an empowered population. The sheep over here will be distracted by a bit of celebrity nonsense in a couple of days.

I agree to an extent. Real change is unlikely in the medium term.

However it'll ride high on the political agenda for some time, there's so much material out there it'll run and run and as above, it's about sentiment more than real action.

Most of this offshore money is also pretty mobile. These dictators and fraudsters aren't living in these property assets, won't have any emotional attachment to them (unlike family homes). They'll also potentially want the cash quickly so it can be safely stashed elsewhere before it's confiscated or frozen, meaning it's more impactful from a supply perspective than would otherwise be the case.

[suntory]

Indeed.

1) London is no longer a place to invest in property as the tax situation continues to deteriorate for speculators

2) London is no longer as friendly to dodgy money as it was so situation deteriorates for criminals and the corrupt.

That's two significant market props kicked away in a few months.

Agreed. Have you heard of ATED. They change the rules (which will tighten now and in the future) back in 2014: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/annual-tax-on-enveloped-dwellings-the-basics

PCL is in for the shirt storm of the century.

[Madcrash]

Agreed. Have you heard of ATED. They change the rules (which will tighten now and in the future) back in 2014: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/annual-tax-on-enveloped-dwellings-the-basics

PCL is in for the shirt storm of the century.

Thanks. Does ATED apply to newly incorporated BTLers? There are an awful lot of £500k plus 2 bed btl places.

A £3500 charge on those would be a *terrible* shame and surely a tax any lender would have to account for when looking at mortgages and remortgages...