markyh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 On 11/12/2018 at 11:05, crypto2001 said: I've been in crypto a very long time and held through the last couple of crashes and made good gains. However, this time is not the same as the last crashes - this time it is different. It’s not different at all yet, apart from ever improving fundamentals. Bitcoin has always passed it previous ATH in 3 years or less. We are now 1 year past the most recent ATH. If we get to 2021 and we still have not passed $20k then you can say it’s differeny this time. Then it may take 5 years this time or never, who knows. But everyone is keen to point out every exact same as the 2013/14 market, except a similat 2017 bull run again at 20x the previous ATH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypto2001 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 The powers in play will not allow this in a hurry of a ATH Bitcoin anytime soon. Their goal is very clear here and it is to increase the Bitcoin supply & the volume on the futures market - this will suppress the price. This is exactly what they did with Gold and Silver, go look at the charts. They will not allow a competitor to fiat, because if that happens then they lose control and power. Therefore, they will keep suppressing the price and if they lose control then they will try banning it. But, for obvious reasons suppression is more favorable than banning - they will make people hate bitcoin and crypto for sure. They have created unlimited supply of Gold in the futures market and will do the same with bitcoin. Bitcoin will not have a limited supply of 21 million shares this will be increased many times over with the paper bitcoin supply which more people will buy rather than actual bitcoin - for obvious reasons: no need to create wallet, transfer, be computer literate, etc, etc. The attached is from a guy on the Gold/Silver side explaining how Bitcoin is being manipulated down. We can learn it from those who have experienced it first-hand. No point in having false hopes or giving others false hope. This TIME it is different with different players in this space. Sure, we will have many rallies but they will be very small ones but for a new ATH now it will take decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypto2001 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 @jiltedjen you are probably the only one person on this thread that i take very seriously and have huge respect for. Please can you tell me if you agree with what I'm saying regarding the short to mid term btc price suppression. If you agree please say why and also if you disagree please can you state your reasons. I am also open to criticism if they are constructive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypto2001 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 13 hours ago, dugsbody said: Why? Why gold? Why not platinum, silver, copper, zinc, prime numbers? Gold's value is determined by people wanting it or not. Not because it has a universal constant determining the value. same with platinum, silver, copper go check out the charts. Not totally correct: "Gold's value is determined by people wanting it or not". Common sense, there is more paper supply of gold than the physical gold itself. So even if more people wanted it, its not a limited supply - what happens is just the paper supply is increased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, crypto2001 said: The powers in play will not allow this in a hurry of a ATH Bitcoin anytime soon. Their goal is very clear here and it is to increase the Bitcoin supply & the volume on the futures market - this will suppress the price. This is exactly what they did with Gold and Silver, go look at the charts. They will not allow a competitor to fiat, because if that happens then they lose control and power. Therefore, they will keep suppressing the price and if they lose control then they will try banning it. But, for obvious reasons suppression is more favorable than banning - they will make people hate bitcoin and crypto for sure. They have created unlimited supply of Gold in the futures market and will do the same with bitcoin. Bitcoin will not have a limited supply of 21 million shares this will be increased many times over with the paper bitcoin supply which more people will buy rather than actual bitcoin - for obvious reasons: no need to create wallet, transfer, be computer literate, etc, etc. The attached is from a guy on the Gold/Silver side explaining how Bitcoin is being manipulated down. We can learn it from those who have experienced it first-hand. No point in having false hopes or giving others false hope. This TIME it is different with different players in this space. Sure, we will have many rallies but they will be very small ones but for a new ATH now it will take decades. Disagree. You can’t exactly quantify how much gold and silver is in physical existence worldwide so paper diluting is easier. You can find the total supply of Bitcoin with the rap if a smartphone app 24/7. Plus Bakkt futures NYSE will be physically settled, daily, meaning btc must be traded on there exchange via blockchain to give price discovery for actual transactions. Oh........ and you can’t fork Gold and silver. Want to hold paper contracts of the wrong now defunct chain bitcoin? worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypto2001 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, markyh said: Disagree. You can’t exactly quantify how much gold and silver is in physical existence worldwide so paper diluting is easier. You can find the total supply of Bitcoin with the rap if a smartphone app 24/7. Plus Bakkt futures NYSE will be physically settled, daily, meaning btc must be traded on there exchange via blockchain to give price discovery for actual transactions. Oh........ and you can’t fork Gold and silver. Want to hold paper contracts of the wrong now defunct chain bitcoin? worthless. Thats a very good point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsn03 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) On 12/12/2018 at 18:19, jiltedjen said: with bitcoin it’s better than gold as you have an open ledger anyone can see - wsn03 - for a product that no one can see except on a computer screen. Lots of people can physically see, touch and wear gold. In many parts of the world gold is gifted in large volume - especially in the Asian sub-continent everyone should have a varied portfolio containing gold+bitcoin, bonds, shares, cash its sensible to have exposure to asset classes that react opposite to each other. that’s common sense. and as with everything it’s up to you with how much exposure you want to each asset class, bitcoin being high risk. alts are just throwing money away, alt investors are not sophisticated investors. wsn03 - how are they any different to Bitcoin investors? This is like listening to religions, each one thinks their fan club is the only one that makes any sense its sensible to have some small exposure to bitcoin. you may loose £100 but the growth in bitcoin has been massive, and will continue to be, even some exposure (like mine in 2013) could easily lead to an early retirement - wsn03 - doubtful going by the fact that it has now had maximum exposure and has still plummeted As soon as you can actually have a true value store like bitcoin you can opt out of the corrupt system. get yourself a better life. wsn03 - assuming you're right, and all the people who say it was just a bubble are completely wrong. Still trying to understand how a stake in some digits on a computer originally harbored as trading tokens by criminals can be a store of value - I must be missing something In the old days, you could save in gold. regardless of what the government did, changing how much gold the currency bought one day from the next, governments had to be carefull that they kept their currency in check so everyone didn’t just rush to gold, as soon as people started accepting paper contracts in gold instead of delivery (fairly recently with the advancement of computers) the function of gold was lost. bitcoin (ironically) uses the same tools paper gold contracts use (technology) to regain individual soverenty over your own stored value. QE should of been illegal. the banks should of gone bust. those leveraged in property should of lost it. The young should not of been crushed soo heavily. It would of been a collapse in the whole banking system, but that’s natural when you have such huge amounts of rot and mail-investment in the system. The young have been crushed bailing the old out. It should of been a short sharp correction, the young would then of benefited from all the new opportunities that (within a year or two) the massive re-growth from a low starting point after the collapse would of afforded them. the young and able getting the nice houses, the old destitute as they should of been. There was no stomach for that. instead let’s steal value from mainly the young, to support high house prices. it’s corruption, immoral and wrong. wsn03 - no that's not how it was played out when it was racing to sky high prices, all I've seen is the few who had it boasting about how they were going to live as the new rulers of a starving world, just because they held something everyone needed...oh, a bit like what has happened already with FIAT currency soon the old will be crushed as their pensions and savings suddenly loose nearly all purchasing power against bitcoin. It’s the revenge of the young. that’s why bitcoin became live as soon as the bail-outs were announced. bitcoin is the only tool the average man actually has to fight back against the system loaded against them. wsn03 - and this isn't preaching, delusion, fantasy or wishful thinking is it? I mean the whole rigged system controlled by established banks and governments the world over are going to let an anonymous set of digits held by a few people take over the world? Yes that sounds plausible. Well I'm sold. Edited December 13, 2018 by wsn03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 6 hours ago, crypto2001 said: Thats a very good point... Just curious as even Mike Novogratz has admitted calling the bottom wrong and buying more ETH when BTC was $6200 and ETH $400, what is your current holdings. The charts show very few people actually sold in 2017 at $20k. Have you 100% bailed, kept 50% or a balls of steel Hodler like me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 hours ago, crypto2001 said: Thats a very good point... I’m no precious metals expert but I don’t know of any Gold and Silver futures exchange that is physically settled daily? Would be a lot of work. Will be as easy as pie on Bakkt NYSE exchange with bitcoin. Will be good as will give a more trusted price discovery metric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 All the stuff about "paper gold" being over allocated on any appreciable scale is horseshit, gold is one of the most tightly scrutinized and regulated markets in the world. Its all totally unsubstantiated theories by the zero hedge tin foil hatter brigade. Gold has in fact done fantastically well vs fiat, exactly as you would expect, over a time span of a few decades - it was £200/oz in 2001, its probably only ceased to go up in recent years because was over bought after about 2011, long term however gold price has been tracking fiat money supply inflation quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragging boot straps Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 I sold 200,000 xrp at €0.8 and then watched the price spike to €2.67. The rest I have determined to hold indefinitely so I can use the Internet freely without charge and then possibly loan out my xrp to financial institutions when it becomes the global hyper currency. I'm here for the tech rather than the fiat gains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 22 hours ago, crypto2001 said: Thats a very good point... I don't know if you follow Crypto news but this is from a month ago about another big player, Fidelity, entering Crypto and bitcoin with custody solutions for institutions. 2019 will be interesting how long the bear market can last. I now think banks are trying to get Bitcoin as low as possible in 2018 and 2019 before these are available to give the biggest $$$ gap between entry price and the 2017 $20k ATH. Once those futures turn long and the bets go bullish and institutions are playing via trusted exchanges with custody solutions, Whoosh. On these few things alone and with retail no longer being the main market mover I have no medium term worries we will not pass the 2017 ATH within the same 3 year Nov 2013/ Nov 2016 bear cycle onto a new 2021 bull run, or before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narco Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, dragging boot straps said: I sold 200,000 xrp at €0.8 and then watched the price spike to €2.67. The rest I have determined to hold indefinitely so I can use the Internet freely without charge and then possibly loan out my xrp to financial institutions when it becomes the global hyper currency. I'm here for the tech rather than the fiat gains. Unfortunately you're holding a centralised fraud token. There is zero evidence any bank is using or planning to use XRP. I posted evidence a few pages back as to why XRP as a payment system is an almighty epic fail. It's a scam and you're basically propping up a ponzi scheme by promoting this token. As for tech, XLM is the same but decentralised and not a security. Edited December 14, 2018 by narco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiltedjen Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) On 13/12/2018 at 10:20, crypto2001 said: @jiltedjen you are probably the only one person on this thread that i take very seriously and have huge respect for. Please can you tell me if you agree with what I'm saying regarding the short to mid term btc price suppression. If you agree please say why and also if you disagree please can you state your reasons. I am also open to criticism if they are constructive I don’t think price suppression is happening, the only price suppression we have is the media talking it down, but to be honest this time they are not overly interested in slating bitcoin daily. There is no concerted effort to drive bitcoin price down, it’s just typical post bubble/mania decline. you can’t control bitcoin like gold, the open ledger is rock solid. The open ledger is an incredible act of genius. anyone who understands the open ledger wouldn’t even attempt to try and move markets via futures or paper contracts. you may have the odd whale, and the usual market players. all we are seeing is the aftermath of a bubble, it was obviously a bubble I said countless times. the real hard thing to do now is to guess the bottom, as soon as that’s hit for any length of time we are going to get a huge short squeeze. you can try and find reasons for the decline but it’s just simple, people got greedy and those who don’t hold who bought at the peak and loosing serious money, you can’t be emotional with investments, it was very very hard for me to stay out of this recent bubble, but I did. you can get swept along. I kept myself busy building a budget mining rig, which was fun, and to ensure my mind was active and destracted enough so I wouldn’t double down on my already at that point overexposure to bitcoin in my varied portfolio (1% bitcoin value of my portfolio since 2013 just kept growing faster than I could pile funds into other parts of the portfolio!) I have been surprised by how little the media have been tasked to slate bitcoin, I think the strategy at the moment is basically ‘any news is good news for bitcoin’ they are more tasking the ‘keep news down and hope it fades away, less people hear about bitcoin, some people will forget’ we are not at the 2018/2019 low yet, and annoyingly my previous predictions of the low after the bubble has been crushed, narco is currently closer to calling the low than me. I think the real low will come summer 2019, what’s that based on? By then this thread will be cold, 7 or 8 months is all it takes for people to get bored of a slowly declining dull market. For me a long term holder, the recent bubble just confirmed that bitcoin can hit those heady heights, now I’m much more confident to increase my exposure (especially as the rest of my saving portfolio has started to catch up), now it’s just a long wait for the halving. come April 2020, the time to buy is in the depths of despair come summer 2019, then it’s a 9-10 month wait for the next bubble. these bubbles are a nessasery evil along bitcoins long term price discovery. in 20 years time bitcoin will be so large and widely used as a value store that the prices of a single bitcoin will of reached relative stability, and we will finally have a market in which the general populace can actually in real terms see how their fiat spending power changes from day to day, central banks would never be allowed to crush the young again, and boomers would have to pay back all the wealth stolen from the young (just a shame they will be gone by then!). whatever the negative people say, it’s sensible to have a varied portfolio with lots of asset classes and bitcoin being a high risk asset class you should still have some limited exposure just out of common sense. There are plenty of bankers etc, who hate bitcoin, but they are smart enough to have some exposure just in case. personally I think if you don’t have some limited exposure to bitcoin then your not being prudent or sensible. Alt coins just do not serve a purpose, bitcoin works as it fills the need for a value store which is not controlled by central banks. the rest of the alts don’t do anything new, or even required. we don’t need a digital fiat coin, we have fiat for that. bitcoin will never replace fiat, but it will eventually replaces houses as the primary value store in this country. And it will be much less socially destructive. bitcoin will finally deliver stability to huge areas of the global economy, countries which are prone to corruption may not even have central banks or fiat anymore (the real unstable countries that is), they may lightening second layers instead. bitcoin is very very hard currency, harder than the world has ever seen. it might not lead a world we all like, but personally anything is better than having all my life wages stolen by old people and banks driving up houses with their own corrupt money creation,we are all slaves right now. We are slaves as long as private banks have the ability to print money. There may be slaves the the future also, but at least the productive will be just fine, at least we won’t have the most corrupt immoral people in society in charge of the money supply (bankers) with no way to escape their evil and greed (bitcoin is your escape out of the corrupt system) Edited December 15, 2018 by jiltedjen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rod Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 On 24/02/2018 at 19:58, doomed said: Bitcoin Cash will over take Bitcoin this year. I am not wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, Black Rod said: Its all over bar the shouting for bitcoin cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narco Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 BTC holders better pray that $1,200 holds as the next support below that is $320. The charts suggest this is where price is heading and people need to be prepared for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, jiltedjen said: I don’t think price suppression is happening, the only price suppression we have is the media talking it down, but to be honest this time they are not overly interested in slating bitcoin daily. There is no concerted effort to drive bitcoin price down, it’s just typical post bubble/mania decline. Its plain old irrational exuberance with the attendant bust. Each of these bull runs is essentially a test to see if the world is actually ready for such a revolutionary idea as money with no counter parties and no external backing. So far the answer has been "no", one day the answer will be "yes". Edited December 15, 2018 by goldbug9999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, narco said: BTC holders better pray that $1,200 holds as the next support below that is $320. The charts suggest this is where price is heading and people need to be prepared for it. Doesn't matter how low it goes, in 5 years time I will still have the same amount of bitcoin (well actually more because I'm buying in at each new low). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narco Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said: Doesn't matter how low it goes, in 5 years time I will still have the same amount of bitcoin (well actually more because I'm buying in at each new low). It will be a great time to buy if it gets to $320 but the next 2017 style run is probably 8-12 years away. A bubble of this size is going to take a long time to unwind and will need a whole new generation of punters. What is amazing to see if that some people have no clue the bull market is over. You still see these idiots on YouTube, Reddit etc still shilling and pumping this thing. The monthly BTC chart is Gold of 1980. I bet people were still pumping gold in 1981/1982 and that took almost 30 years to take out that high. Edited December 15, 2018 by narco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 1 hour ago, narco said: It will be a great time to buy if it gets to $320 but the next 2017 style run is probably 8-12 years away. A bubble of this size is going to take a long time to unwind and will need a whole new generation of punters. What is amazing to see if that some people have no clue the bull market is over. You still see these idiots on YouTube, Reddit etc still shilling and pumping this thing. The monthly BTC chart is Gold of 1980. I bet people were still pumping gold in 1981/1982 and that took almost 30 years to take out that high. Bitcoin is transformative in way that no other asset class is, gold included. Everyone who shares your disbelief in this will of course arrive at a similar conclusion to yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Media talk down media talk up. They and the spam emailers did a fine job of extracting the wealth of idiots last year. Bitter pill to swallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rod Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 On 18/12/2017 at 17:01, doomed said: lol. I have over $1M invested all in Bitcoin Cash and have done significantly better than if I left in Bitcoin. People may think I am full of shit but would be happy to prove cryptographically if anybody wants to make a wager worth my while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsn03 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Black Rod said: I just looked at the graph...doomed must have lost a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Noone has consistently called the big moves either the market as a whole or individual cryptos, well noone with skin in the game anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.