3 Million Older owners Want To Downsize But Can't

[gf3]

TBH I wouldn't mind down sizing. I am devoiced single living in a small three bedroomed detached house. There are rooms in my house I haven't visited this month.

The house is worth about £170,000 and is on a nice quite estate.

How much would I gain by buying a smaller house?

Nothing as far as I can see. I've never lived in a flat and don't think I want too. When I lived in a semi I hated hearing everything that was going on next door.

Any gains I made by moving to a smaller property would be taken up in the cost of moving.

A park home would be my best bet but I have heard a lot of horror story's about them.

Edited September 12, 2013 by gf3

[The Knimbies who say No]

The downsizing idea is a convenient myth for most, it just puts people's minds at rest regarding finances later in life. Most people do not wish to move house unless absolutely necessary, and why would they?

Unfortunately it shifts the housing debate away from building more housing to account for the lack of appetite for downsizing.

Edited September 12, 2013 by cheeznbreed

[gf3]

The downsizing idea is a convenient myth for most, it just puts people's minds at rest regarding finances later in life. Most people do not wish to move house unless absolutely necessary, and why would they?

Unfortunately it shifts the housing debate away from building more housing to account for the lack of appetite for downsizing.

I agree down sizing is a myth. It may work for some one in the south east that moves away from the madness but generally you are looking at going down quality to make any money.

Most small house that people would want to move to could have an extension built on if they wished

[cybernoid]

Their 'problem' is they don't actually want to downsize. They want a chocolate box scene to live in, they look at the price of these rare detached cottages on the coast, double it so they have some money to live on, and ask that for their suburban 3 bed on a housing estate. They could actually downsize if they wanted to. They have to live in a pokey flat, the kind they expect their children to raise their grandchildren in with the crack dealer next door. They won't accept what they can afford. That sounds familiar doesn't it? They want it all these days don't they.

Edited September 12, 2013 by cybernoid

[porca misèria]

lack of good quality large apartments is one of the problems.

too many are boxy 700sq ft 2 bedroom flats designed for renting.

the UK needs more 1500 sq ft apartments that people actually want to live in and call a home.

its lower maintenance for the elderly, all on one floor and open plan which is ideal.

They don't have to be that big to be a whole lot better than pretty-much any UK flat in a building later than 1914.

The flat I rented in Germany was about 76 sq m, and very nice. Also about 50% bigger than flats costing twice as much in Blighty.

My ideal here would be a flat in a big Victorian or older house. Decent space and elegance. What puts me off is that a flat like that can be a nightmare if you get a noisy neighbour, and a lot of them are so badly converted you can hear even a perfectly reasonable neighbour.

[Mrs Bear]

The downsizing idea is a convenient myth for most, it just puts people's minds at rest regarding finances later in life. Most people do not wish to move house unless absolutely necessary, and why would they?

Unfortunately it shifts the housing debate away from building more housing to account for the lack of appetite for downsizing.

I read recently of a couple who downsized - from the kind of period family house in Richmond that sells for £3M to the kind of new build flat with 3 beds and 2 balconies overlooking Bushy Park (near Hampton Court) that sells for £1M.

And we know a couple who recently downsized a little but also relocated from London-commuter Herts to coastal Essex - sold for about £650k and bought for about £350k.

And another couple who have been trying to downsize from a very large family house in rural N Yorks for ages but can't sell, and no wonder when you look at the price they're asking. It doesn't seem to occur to them that although they could afford to buy it maybe 30 years ago there are far fewer couples with kids who can afford it now, or for that matter would want to be in such an isolated position where you need the car for absolutely everything and the heating costs a bomb, since they themselves admitted ages ago that it takes an awful lot of heating. I don't think they're short of money but the sort of place they'd probably like to move to - a very nice smaller house say near the centre of York - would probably cost not far off what they're asking.

But from experience, most couples in relatively modest houses do not actually want to downsize - they are not actually rattling around in their houses, they're not too huge to heat or maintain, and they probably won't even think of it until one of them is both quite a lot older and widowed. IMO it is a bit of a myth that most people over 60 odd want to downsize. Though I did hear of one couple in London who used to constantly have guests inviting themselves and moved on purpose so that they wouldn't have room for them.

[Mrs Bear]

lack of good quality large apartments is one of the problems.

too many are boxy 700sq ft 2 bedroom flats designed for renting.

the UK needs more 1500 sq ft apartments that people actually want to live in and call a home.

its lower maintenance for the elderly, all on one floor and open plan which is ideal.

Who says open plan is ideal? personally I would hate a kitchen in the same space as the living room, though I suppose it"s Ok if you hardly ever cook from scratch, as opposed to shoving a ready meal in the oven or microwave and tearing open a bag of salad.

Much of the open plan you see in flats seems designed to allow developers to cram 2 bedrooms into an even smaller space than it would otherwise need, and allow a one bed to be crammed on to a titchy footprint with zero storage space.

[nome]

According to the report it is half of the over 60s. Report wants millions of retirement flats built.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing when I heard this story yesterday... what planet are Demos on??

Anyone who has had the misfortune of trying to dispose of a retirement property will tell you they are notoriously difficult to sell and the market demand for them is virtually non-existent... And yet these idiots produce a report claiming that millions more retirement properties are required!

[Crashman Begins]

Funny situation..

They own all the homes that young families would like

& young families have homes that they need.

Who wins in the end ? The Young have more time

Or are the mid 40year olds of today gonna snap them all up as

Buy to let's etc . If not then a big crash / opportunity in when.. 2036 ?

[The Masked Tulip]

I couldn't believe what I was hearing when I heard this story yesterday... what planet are Demos on??

Anyone who has had the misfortune of trying to dispose of a retirement property will tell you they are notoriously difficult to sell and the market demand for them is virtually non-existent... And yet these idiots produce a report claiming that millions more retirement properties are required!

Maybe they are looking at the massive baby boomer generation who, over the next 20 years starting around now, will be reaching their 70sand 80s?

[The Masked Tulip]

I read recently of a couple who downsized - from the kind of period family house in Richmond that sells for £3M to the kind of new build flat with 3 beds and 2 balconies overlooking Bushy Park (near Hampton Court) that sells for £1M.

And we know a couple who recently downsized a little but also relocated from London-commuter Herts to coastal Essex - sold for about £650k and bought for about £350k.

And another couple who have been trying to downsize from a very large family house in rural N Yorks for ages but can't sell, and no wonder when you look at the price they're asking. It doesn't seem to occur to them that although they could afford to buy it maybe 30 years ago there are far fewer couples with kids who can afford it now, or for that matter would want to be in such an isolated position where you need the car for absolutely everything and the heating costs a bomb, since they themselves admitted ages ago that it takes an awful lot of heating. I don't think they're short of money but the sort of place they'd probably like to move to - a very nice smaller house say near the centre of York - would probably cost not far off what they're asking.

But from experience, most couples in relatively modest houses do not actually want to downsize - they are not actually rattling around in their houses, they're not too huge to heat or maintain, and they probably won't even think of it until one of them is both quite a lot older and widowed. IMO it is a bit of a myth that most people over 60 odd want to downsize. Though I did hear of one couple in London who used to constantly have guests inviting themselves and moved on purpose so that they wouldn't have room for them.

Again, it is the difference between London and the rest of the country. Interesting anecdotes. Thanks.

[olliegog]

Maybe they are looking at the massive baby boomer generation who, over the next 20 years starting around now, will be reaching their 70sand 80s?

it won't be MASSIVE by the time some have died off, somne are renting, some have gone into care homes, some would rather struggle on in a granny annexe or in their own home (or a smaller version of it) than move into a retirement 'complex' full of old people and with no garden. The over 60s generally do not want to live in flats (retirement or otherwise) if they can avoid it - they want comfort and a 'bit of garden' in their later years.

in other news 'half the over 60s do not want to downsize'

[janch]

Very interesting and I agree with the last post. I've downsized twice and now live in a 2 bed semi now my children have flown the nest. It is a new-build (so no maintenance costs) and has a very small garden which I can manage. I like to have somewher to sit outside and a patch of grass. It's a mix of ages and people ie families and singles around and I can't think of anything worse than being surrounded by old people! Yet my mother in her 80s still lives in a large family-sized house and has to have a cleaner and a person to do the garden as she can't manage it. The mindset of many old people is to stay put as it's just too much hassle to move plus expensive. No-one has mentioned the house-buying/selling process which is often a complete nightmare and has become more complex since the days when the oldies bought their family home. For many widows of that generation they may never have had to deal with estate agents/solicitors and the like as their husbands would have done it for them. Some would like to move I'm sure if they had help with the process. Many have also accumulated a house full of junk over the years and don't have the energy or inclination to sort it out.

It makes me weep when I see how some families are having to raise their children in cramped flats when there are all these larger properties around not being used properly. What the older generation have forgotten is that when they had their children they could afford the houses they are still living in whereas now families can't, even on 2 incomes.

I realise I'm lucky that as a boomer I have been able to profit from the property boom although as a divorcee (and single parent for many years) I'm not as well off as many of my generation. I don't understand how the present government can't see how strapped young families are or young singles paying student debts and trying to afford somewhere to live compared with pensioners many of whom are sitting on a lot of property wealth.

[The Masked Tulip]

it won't be MASSIVE by the time some have died off, somne are renting, some have gone into care homes, some would rather struggle on in a granny annexe or in their own home (or a smaller version of it) than move into a retirement 'complex' full of old people and with no garden. The over 60s generally do not want to live in flats (retirement or otherwise) if they can avoid it - they want comfort and a 'bit of garden' in their later years.

in other news 'half the over 60s do not want to downsize'

Good point.

I have to admit that yesterday's post in this thread about someone losing mobility because they were no longer living in a house with stairs has personally given me food for thought.

Having said that, I know so many people who have ended up forced to move because they can no longer get up stairs or have had to have a stair-lift put in.

[The Masked Tulip]

Very interesting and I agree with the last post. I've downsized twice and now live in a 2 bed semi now my children have flown the nest. It is a new-build (so no maintenance costs) and has a very small garden which I can manage. I like to have somewher to sit outside and a patch of grass. It's a mix of ages and people ie families and singles around and I can't think of anything worse than being surrounded by old people! Yet my mother in her 80s still lives in a large family-sized house and has to have a cleaner and a person to do the garden as she can't manage it. The mindset of many old people is to stay put as it's just too much hassle to move plus expensive. No-one has mentioned the house-buying/selling process which is often a complete nightmare and has become more complex since the days when the oldies bought their family home. For many widows of that generation they may never have had to deal with estate agents/solicitors and the like as their husbands would have done it for them. Some would like to move I'm sure if they had help with the process. Many have also accumulated a house full of junk over the years and don't have the energy or inclination to sort it out.

Interesting post.

I get grief from some EAs because they are annoyed that I do things like, oh, want to view a house more than once before offering them the full asking price. Little things like that.

But I am looking ahead and the cost and hassle of moving, especially when I am older, is something I am already thinking about. Why - because I have spoken to so many people in their mid 60s and upwards who have found it enormous stress, hassle and cost to downsize at that age.

Things like being relatively on the flat - difficult in much of Wales - and being close to a local Sainsburys/Tesco/Co-Op rather than some corner shop, being on a regular bus route, etc, are things I am thinking about now. People laugh and tell me that I am too young to be thinking about such things.

Then, ease of maintenance, cost of running, small garden, etc, are all things that I think people over-look. They are important.

A few years back one EA got peeved off with me because I did not make an offer on a house with a very large garden - way too big. Several weeks later I was chatting to a chap standing outside the EA office and it turned out to be the husband of the EA who had shown me the house. Guess what, it was their house - and he told me that the main reason they were selling was that "At my age I simply can't cope with the garden anymore".

[winkie]

In the South West there is a growing number of people that have downsized from other more expensive places, more often London and the South East......there was a graph somewhere that showed the highest differential of property prices against local wages outside London was in areas like this where it is becoming obvious that high house prices in certain areas is causing higher house prices in other areas, the ripple effect, places where the average wage is around £18k to £24K.....interestingly there is not so much rental property about, could be proof that rents are linked to wages and benefits, property prices linked to availability of credit, cash and interest rates along with overseas demand.

[Mrs Bear]

Interesting post.

I get grief from some EAs because they are annoyed that I do things like, oh, want to view a house more than once before offering them the full asking price. Little things like that.

But I am looking ahead and the cost and hassle of moving, especially when I am older, is something I am already thinking about. Why - because I have spoken to so many people in their mid 60s and upwards who have found it enormous stress, hassle and cost to downsize at that age.

Things like being relatively on the flat - difficult in much of Wales - and being close to a local Sainsburys/Tesco/Co-Op rather than some corner shop, being on a regular bus route, etc, are things I am thinking about now. People laugh and tell me that I am too young to be thinking about such things.

Then, ease of maintenance, cost of running, small garden, etc, are all things that I think people over-look. They are important.

A few years back one EA got peeved off with me because I did not make an offer on a house with a very large garden - way too big. Several weeks later I was chatting to a chap standing outside the EA office and it turned out to be the husband of the EA who had shown me the house. Guess what, it was their house - and he told me that the main reason they were selling was that "At my age I simply can't cope with the garden anymore".

Agree so much about ease of maintenance, small garden, etc. When our kids were at the noisy teen stage, their stuff and mess overflowing everywhere, Mr B and I would have loved a bit more space and a bigger garden and did try to move twice. but each time it fell through. We are very glad now that we're still here since it suits us fine and we still have room for kids to stay, and they do come often.

Otoh, the houses we wanted then, which would have been a bit of a stretch, are proportionately way more expensive now. Swings and roundabouts...

I was very upset at losing one of the houses, since it seemed perfect. However as kids got a bit older we realised how dark and creepy and 'lurky' the road was at night, whereas here we're well lit and there's good public transport nearby. I would have spent half my life ferrying them around, since I'd have hated for them to come home alone at night.

[winkie]

Interesting post.

I get grief from some EAs because they are annoyed that I do things like, oh, want to view a house more than once before offering them the full asking price. Little things like that.

But I am looking ahead and the cost and hassle of moving, especially when I am older, is something I am already thinking about. Why - because I have spoken to so many people in their mid 60s and upwards who have found it enormous stress, hassle and cost to downsize at that age.

Things like being relatively on the flat - difficult in much of Wales - and being close to a local Sainsburys/Tesco/Co-Op rather than some corner shop, being on a regular bus route, etc, are things I am thinking about now. People laugh and tell me that I am too young to be thinking about such things.

Then, ease of maintenance, cost of running, small garden, etc, are all things that I think people over-look. They are important.

A few years back one EA got peeved off with me because I did not make an offer on a house with a very large garden - way too big. Several weeks later I was chatting to a chap standing outside the EA office and it turned out to be the husband of the EA who had shown me the house. Guess what, it was their house - and he told me that the main reason they were selling was that "At my age I simply can't cope with the garden anymore".

If large enough they could always try for planning permission to build another house in the garden.....in-fill like this is going on all over the place.

Yes you are right, depending on health elderly downsizers find large gardens (and houses) difficult to maintain, therefore there is always plenty of seasonal gardening work available in areas where the elderly with large gardens live....along with cleaning and care work.

There is a growing need of purpose built retirement accommodation being built where people can buy or rent their own warm apartments or sometimes houses on site, there is 24 hour emergency assistance available, communal social areas some will use, and hot meals are also available, some choose to cook for themselves whilst others will always use the dinning room...both married couples and single people stay in places like this and can have family and friends to stay if they want.

[LiveinHope]

Interesting post.

I get grief from some EAs because they are annoyed that I do things like, oh, want to view a house more than once before offering them the full asking price. Little things like that.

To tell you the truth, if I was going to buy a house costing 250k (a quarter of a million pounds) or more, that would

i) cost more in stamp duty than I would spend on a car,

ii) involve mortgage fees and 25 years of debt, and

iii) would cost at least 1% of its value in agents fees if I wanted to sell, then

I would want to stay in it for a few nights to test

i) how the house layout works,

ii) neighbourhood noise levels and

iii) to work out what is in shade outside at what times of day

iv) I might even take a spade to the soil in the garden to test its depth if the house is a newbuild.

Hell, people will take a 5k car for a test drive.

Just goes to show how unlikely it is that I will buy a house

Edited September 13, 2013 by LiveinHope

[The Masked Tulip]

To tell you the truth, if I was going to buy a house costing 250k (a quarter of a million pounds) or more, that would

i) cost more in stamp duty than I would spend on a car,

ii) involve mortgage fees and 25 years of debt, and

iii) would cost at least 1% of its value in agents fees if I wanted to sell, then

I would want to stay in it for a few nights to test

i) how the house layout works,

ii) neighbourhood noise levels and

iii) to work out what is in shade outside at what times of day

Hell, people will take a 5k car for a test drive.

Just goes to show how unlikely it is that I will buy a house

In my part of the world you get one 10 minute viewing, which is always hurried, and then you might get a second one. If you try for three they think you are a timewaster.

So, basically after 20 minutes they expect you to put in an offer and get a surveyor and conveyancer for the most expensive thing you will ever buy.

[motch]

Then, ease of maintenance, cost of running, small garden, etc, are all things that I think people over-look. They are important.

A few years back one EA got peeved off with me because I did not make an offer on a house with a very large garden - way too big. Several weeks later I was chatting to a chap standing outside the EA office and it turned out to be the husband of the EA who had shown me the house. Guess what, it was their house - and he told me that the main reason they were selling was that "At my age I simply can't cope with the garden anymore".

May well of missed a trick there TMT. I've seen countless big gardens turned into extra housing with little effect on the local community, semi-rural village cul-de-sacs seem ideal for this sort of thing. Plus big garden houses have more chance of the original house being extended if need be. I don't really get the gardens too big scenario. It could all be flattened / ripped out and just lawned with a guy mowing it every so often, or concreted over or something like that. Or partitioned off and get someone in to grow veg in it for free, and so on... graze sheep on it for free. never turn a house down because the gardens too big... might even find buried treasure on it..

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

In my part of the world you get one 10 minute viewing, which is always hurried, and then you might get a second one. If you try for three they think you are a timewaster.

So, basically after 20 minutes they expect you to put in an offer and get a surveyor and conveyancer for the most expensive thing you will ever buy.

99% of people take more care buying a pair of shoes.

The other 1% are double amputees.

[The Masked Tulip]

May well of missed a trick there TMT. I've seen countless big gardens turned into extra housing with little effect on the local community, semi-rural village cul-de-sacs seem ideal for this sort of thing. Plus big garden houses have more chance of the original house being extended if need be. I don't really get the gardens too big scenario. It could all be flattened / ripped out and just lawned with a guy mowing it every so often, or concreted over or something like that. Or partitioned off and get someone in to grow veg in it for free, and so on... graze sheep on it for free. never turn a house down because the gardens too big... might even find buried treasure on it..

That has happened a lot in the Mumbles area - Langland and Caswell. You can see it on google maps. Hugem expensive houses with big gardens and the owners have basically built a house, stuck that on for 500K to 1.5 million and then put their own on the market for the same. Or something like that.

The house I mentioned had loads of big oaks in the rear so you would have had trouble building.

[motch]

That has happened a lot in the Mumbles area - Langland and Caswell. You can see it on google maps. Hugem expensive houses with big gardens and the owners have basically built a house, stuck that on for 500K to 1.5 million and then put their own on the market for the same. Or something like that.

The house I mentioned had loads of big oaks in the rear so you would have had trouble building.

similar things near me but on a much lower £figure.

also a friend of mine has done similar with a place with a bit of land near me over the last decade, amazed how much little paid work he's had to do in that time to survive

at least with the oaks you could have some livestock in the garden keeping the grass between the trees down, or build some tree houses and run your own holiday rentals if you could get the permission.

Edited September 13, 2013 by motch

[cybernoid]

Hell, people will take a 5k car for a test drive.

Just goes to show how unlikely it is that I will buy a house

It is bizarre how you are treated. If you're looking to drop 30k or 20k on a car the salesman will be all over you, nothing will be too much trouble. An estate agent won't even bother turning up for a viewing a lot of the time and they will never know a thing about the property.

Similarly when you view to rent, even the owner treats you like something they found on their shoe. You're giving them up to half of your after tax income every month, income they badly need in all cases Ive known, and they treat you like it is them doing you a favour.

I suppose it is supply and demand but even in a busy coffee shop when youre spending 2 pound you get a smile and a thankyou. The only conclusion to draw is that landlords and agents are ***ts or very confused. Probably both.