Princess Diana Death: Cops Probe Sensational Claim She Was Killed By The Sas

[Nuggets Mahoney]

I see your bbc quote and raise you a wiki quote:

My link

I was just about to post that

Then you'd have to lump the time left over back onto the time on scene

= 68 minutes on scene

= 26 minute journey

[Lewis Gordon Pugh]

Thats interesting. Do you have any links to credible sources about this? Did Mercedes make a statement, and is there a police report about the theft, for example?

Yes, there is a banned documentary on the subject. It is banned in the United Kingdom. You can find it online, but i wont provide a link.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Yes, there is a banned documentary on the subject. It is banned in the United Kingdom. You can find it online, but i wont provide a link.

I will.

Guardian: Unlawful Killing – the film the British won't get to see

I presume that's the one you're talking about.

Not banned as such. According to Keith Allen, the guy who made it...

Why is the film being premiered next week at Cannes, three years after the inquest ended? Because British lawyers insisted on 87 cuts before any UK release could be contemplated. So rather than butcher the film, or risk legal action, we're showing it in France, then the US, and everywhere except the UK.

[Lewis Gordon Pugh]

Unlawful killing being the verdict of the inquiry.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Unlawful killing being the verdict of the inquiry.

It's been a while since I saw that film but, as I recall, Allen gives the impression that this was the strongest verdict the jury could deliver and that the members had doubts about the official narrative.

According to the inquest transcript...

16 THE JURY FOREMAN: The verdict is unlawful killing, grossly

17 negligent driving of the following vehicles and of

18 the Mercedes, and that is nine of us, sir.

23 THE JURY FOREMAN: The deceased is Diana, Princess of Wales.

24 The cause of death is chest injury, laceration within

25 the left pulmonary vein and the immediate adjacent

1 portion of the left atrium of the heart.

2 Diana, Princess of Wales, died La Pitie-Salpetriere

3 Hospital in Paris at around 4 am on 31st August 1997 as

4 a result of a motor crash which occurred in the Alma

5 Underpass in Paris on 31st August 1997 at around

6 12.22 am. The crash was caused or contributed to by

7 the speed and manner of driving of the Mercedes,

8 the speed and manner of driving of the following

9 vehicles, the impairment of the judgment of the driver

10 of the Mercedes through alcohol. Nine of us are agreed

11 on those points, sir.

12 In addition, the death of the deceased was caused or

13 contributed to by the fact that the deceased was not

14 wearing a seat-belt, the fact that the Mercedes struck

15 the pillar in the Alma Tunnel, rather than colliding

16 with something else, and we are unanimously agreed on

17 that.

Unlike the Jean Charles de Menezes inquest, where the jury was impeded by the verdicts it was permitted to return, the Diana jury appears to have been on board with the official narrative.

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Hmmm... When's that new Diana film out then?

Is there a COD video game coming ?

Cull of Diana

Black Mercs

[happy_renting]

Some people are claiming that ALL new cars sold in the USA since 2010 can be remotely hacked and controlled....

http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/carhack.html

I doubt that capability is 'built in' to a car, as an RF reciever would have to be incorporated, and that would be found even if it was on-chip in the ECU.

However, the ECU diagnostics port of any car built in the past 20 years or so would be vulnerable. I expect that there are lots of unpublished genuine 'test features' that could be compromised with an appropriate RF receiver and software plugged into the diagnostics cable. Interfreing with the feedback loop of any positional control information (e.g. steering, accelerator, brakes) could make a vehicle uncontrollable, even if not actually remote-controlled.

Expect to the the Illuminati driving around in pre-1990 classic limousines.

[MrPin]

I doubt that capability is 'built in' to a car, as an RF reciever would have to be incorporated, and that would be found even if it was on-chip in the ECU.

1998!

You can scan for funny frequencies using nothing more than a DVB dongle, and free software!

[lulu]

Hmmm... When's that new Diana film out then?

As usual the Daily Mash come up with a good one

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/diana-film-actually-going-to-be-shown-in-cinemas-2013081978770

[Nuggets Mahoney]

I doubt that capability is 'built in' to a car, as an RF reciever would have to be incorporated, and that would be found even if it was on-chip in the ECU.

However, the ECU diagnostics port of any car built in the past 20 years or so would be vulnerable. I expect that there are lots of unpublished genuine 'test features' that could be compromised with an appropriate RF receiver and software plugged into the diagnostics cable. Interfreing with the feedback loop of any positional control information (e.g. steering, accelerator, brakes) could make a vehicle uncontrollable, even if not actually remote-controlled.

Expect to the the Illuminati driving around in pre-1990 classic limousines.

According to the nice lady from DARPA, cars can be hacked via bluetooth (if fitted), their stereos/ CD players, any cellular connections they might fitted with (for calling roadside assistance) or via infected diagnostic machinery at dealerships.

The cell connections would seem to offer the best opportunity for full undetectable R/C. I'm not a petrolhead. So I haven't the faintest how common they currently are in the US or elsewhere.

edit:

wiki: Onstar

OnStar Corporation is a subsidiary of General Motors that provides subscription-based communications, in-vehicle security, hands free calling, turn-by-turn navigation, and remote diagnostics systems throughout the United States, Canada and China. A similar service is known as ChevyStar in Latin American markets. In September 2011 the president of OnStar stated that the service had more than six million customers.

Sounds like a very convenient service.

[happy_renting]

According to the nice lady from DARPA, cars can be hacked via bluetooth (if fitted), their stereos/ CD players, any cellular connections they might fitted with (for calling roadside assistance) or via infected diagnostic machinery at dealerships.

The cell connections would seem to offer the best opportunity for full undetectable R/C. I'm not a petrolhead. So I haven't the faintest how common they currently are in the US or elsewhere.

edit:

wiki: Onstar

Sounds like a very convenient service.

Ah yes, I forgot that 'modern' motor cars sometimes have built-in cellular links.

Not sure how bluetooth would make a car vulnerable. I guess all the intelligence is built into one OS and so any vulnerability compromises the whole vehicle. Any hacker would need to be in close proximity to the vehicle I think (or have a powerful transmitter and sensitive receiver).

My uncle had a 1933 Wartburg-Slazenger 'Behemoth' which was impregnable. Even my aunt couldn't get in it. Which is why he bought it.

[Bemusedmover]

Ah yes, I forgot that 'modern' motor cars sometimes have built-in cellular links.

Not sure how bluetooth would make a car vulnerable. I guess all the intelligence is built into one OS and so any vulnerability compromises the whole vehicle. Any hacker would need to be in close proximity to the vehicle I think (or have a powerful transmitter and sensitive receiver).

My uncle had a 1933 Wartburg-Slazenger 'Behemoth' which was impregnable. Even my aunt couldn't get in it. Which is why he bought it.

trouble is Bluetooth wasn't around when Diana had her ..........Errrrrr "accident"

[Goat]

trouble is Bluetooth wasn't around when Diana had her ..........Errrrrr "accident"

My thoughts exactly.

Did the 1991 designed S class have the kind of electronic throttle, brakes and gearbox that would need to be hacked to stage such an accident.

[LC1]

trouble is Bluetooth wasn't around when Diana had her ..........Errrrrr "accident"

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the Merc was 'hacked' as such. But like all these things it is an evolving technique. The original technique might have been to tamper with the brakes and then use another car to force an accident. The potential ways to tamper would have presumably improved over time, especially with increasing amount of electrical components involved.

As far as I understand, this has been the case for many decades...steering, breaking, throttle etc, especially on higher end cars. But I would be very interested to know from someone more enlightened as to how much electronic component and circuitry would have been on a 1991 Mercedes...

[Bemusedmover]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the Merc was 'hacked' as such. But like all these things it is an evolving technique. The original technique might have been to tamper with the brakes and then use another car to force an accident. The potential ways to tamper would have presumably improved over time, especially with increasing amount of electrical components involved.

As far as I understand, this has been the case for many decades...steering, breaking, throttle etc, especially on higher end cars. But I would be very interested to know from someone more enlightened as to how much electronic component and circuitry would have been on a 1991 Mercedes...

A work colleague had one of the exact same models................

It was built like a tank................. (airbags everywhere)

I have always pondered the amount of damage and injury's sustained in that accident - it was in a tunnel and common sense says it ought to have bounced repeatedly from wall to wall especially if travelling at speed............

conspiracy theories fascinate me BUT - I suspect we will never really know....................

Or will we?

EDIT - just realised there were pillars in the middle

[Nuggets Mahoney]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the Merc was 'hacked' as such. But like all these things it is an evolving technique. The original technique might have been to tamper with the brakes and then use another car to force an accident. The potential ways to tamper would have presumably improved over time, especially with increasing amount of electrical components involved.

Forcing a car crash would be straightforward enough but in the circumstances of the Diana crash there's no way anyone could be sure the crash would be fatal for everyone in the car. There were four people in that car. Four potential survivors. Four potential witnesses to something untoward having taken place. To be sure of success, the emergency services would have to be nobbled in order to finish any survivors off in a non incriminating way. At which point, the whole business would become dangerously elaborate and potentially messy.

Most dubious, possible autocides I can think of involved a single occupant in the car.

Having said all that, the sole survivor's selective amnesia about what happened that night strikes me as peculiar. Presumably not medically/ psychologically impossible, and so cannot be ruled out, but still a bit of a chin scratcher.

edit: ...and the hour and a half getting her to hospital, that seems excessive, but maybe in the circumstances it wasn't, or maybe the paramedics were nervous and/or rubbish.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

Surely if someone wanted Diana dead, the way to do it would be to have her shot/stabbed then have some obsessive fan as your patsy. Or she could mysteriously fall off a yacht after drinking too much one night. There are loads of ways which guarantee death and would be plausible enough.

[SarahBell]

edit: ...and the hour and a half getting her to hospital, that seems excessive, but maybe in the circumstances it wasn't, or maybe the paramedics were nervous and/or rubbish.

What's the average time for a car crash victim to take to get to hospital?

[Spork of Damocles]

edit: ...and the hour and a half getting her to hospital, that seems excessive, but maybe in the circumstances it wasn't, or maybe the paramedics were nervous and/or rubbish.

The ambulance, which was more of a mobile operating room, was driven very slowly on purpose to avoid disrupting any work they were performing on her.

I've no doubt the tin-foil hat gang think this is suspicious but, frankly, if you're going to nobble the medical staff of a different state (which is also, proudly, a republic) to knock off people in a car crash, it's not going to take much at the scene to finish someone off who is already a] badly injured and b] having a heart attack.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

What's the average time for a car crash victim to take to get to hospital?

Even if you could find out that information it wouldn't be much use as Diana's injuries were described at the inquest as not average but 'rare'

[Goat]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the Merc was 'hacked' as such. But like all these things it is an evolving technique. The original technique might have been to tamper with the brakes and then use another car to force an accident. The potential ways to tamper would have presumably improved over time, especially with increasing amount of electrical components involved.

The problem is there are so many things going on there that you'd never get away with it.

Off the top of my head you would need to:

1. Tamper with the brakes in a way that would not be noticed by the driver until the fatal moment.

2. Remove all evidence of interfering with the brakes after the crash.

3. Induce the driver to proceed at an unsafe speed.

4. Ensure that the occupants were not wearing seatbelts.

5. Ensure that the crash was of a fatal type (i.e directly into something solid rather than bouncing along the walls).

6. Either get the driver drunk without anyone noticing or somehow fake two separate blood tests.

7. Ensure that the medical care at the scene was incompetent.

8. Ensure that no-one saw you doing any of the above.

9. Ensure that the subsequent investigations by both the French and British authorities found no evidence.

So to pull it off you'd need at least half a dozen random variables to fall in your favour plus the collusion of dozens if not hundreds of people of both British and French nationality.

Some conspiracy theories make sense, this isn't one of them.

[Goat]

edit: ...and the hour and a half getting her to hospital, that seems excessive, but maybe in the circumstances it wasn't, or maybe the paramedics were nervous and/or rubbish.

The 26 minutes drive (including a 5 minute stop) seems reasonable enough, particularly if as reported the doctor ordered a go slow.

An hour at the scene: probably not that unusual either. The first task would've been accessing the vehicle, which may have meant a delay waiting for equipment to arrive, it's then going to be a fairly lenghty process to get the victims out of the car not helped by the fact that you have 4 to deal with and then a further lenghty period trying to stabilise them before you start the ambulance journey.

I seem to remember hearing that French and British practice differed in this area; IIRC British practice was to patch them up a bit then get them off to hospital ASAP, French practice was to do a lot more work at the scene and then move them. Perhaps Chumpus or someone else medically trained can shed a bit more light.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

<snip>

Some conspiracy theories make sense, this isn't one of them.

A big part of the allure of this particular conspiracy impo is that her death at that time can be seen as a 'result' for the British establishment.

She was locked in a bitter feud with the Royal Family, allegedly putting together some kind of dodgy dossier, could have caused all sorts of trouble over custody of her children and was allegedly hinting that she was going to make some kind of announcement. The subsequent pursuit of Paul Burrell over custody of Diana's stuff and the peculiar events leading to the abandoning of Burell's trial add to the air of something going on behind the scenes.

And then she dies violently.

Many people are going to see, and do see, circumstances like that and automatically assume foul play was involved.

However, look at the known facts of the accident and, like you say, for it to be pulled off the way conspiranauts imply would be seriously improbable.

edit: that wiki link to the 'Burrell Affair' I just posted and its 'See Also' section currently seem a little more, um, contentious than I would usually expect to see on wikipedia

[Mark Uttley]

Surely if someone wanted Diana dead, the way to do it would be to have her shot/stabbed then have some obsessive fan as your patsy. Or she could mysteriously fall off a yacht after drinking too much one night. There are loads of ways which guarantee death and would be plausible enough.

Why nobble a Mercedes when you can nobble a private plane or a helicopter?

One way you can be sure that the SAS didn't arrange this. She was still alive when the ambulance got there.

[Goat]

A big part of the allure of this particular conspiracy impo is that her death at that time can be seen as a 'result' for the British establishment.

Also the fact that Mr Al-Fayed was pushing the conspiracy hard, possibly at least in part because as Mr Paul's employer he was at least partly responsible for their deaths.

The one thing that doesn't make sense is the fact that the security team allowed a drunk person to drive them in the first place, surely someone should've noticed.