The Dealership C4 Last Night

[Harry Monk]

Until this thread, I have never really spared a thought about what others do, but we've paid less on vehicles over our motoring lives than many pay on a single car.

Funnily enough, I just bought a new car last weekend, an 05-reg Rover 75 Contemporary Hi-Line, that was £2,800, the most I've ever paid for a car.

At the same time I sold my P-reg Rover Sterling, I paid £1,300 for it eight years ago and sold it to a restorer on ebay for £200, so over eight years it cost me £2.64 in depreciation.

Before that I had a Ford Sierra 2.0 GLS, bought in 2000 for £300 and sold to a Westfield kit-car builder in 2005 for £285, so that cost just under 6p a week in depreciation.

I've worked with people who have earned no more than I do but who are happy to spend £3,000 a year on car depreciation when all they needed was to get from A to B, I just could not countenance doing that.

[jcpricewatcher]

Funnily enough, I just bought a new car last weekend, an 05-reg Rover 75 Contemporary Hi-Line, that was £2,800, the most I've ever paid for a car.

At the same time I sold my P-reg Rover Sterling, I paid £1,300 for it eight years ago and sold it to a restorer on ebay for £200, so over eight years it cost me £2.64 in depreciation.

Before that I had a Ford Sierra 2.0 GLS, bought in 2000 for £300 and sold to a Westfield kit-car builder in 2005 for £285, so that cost just under 6p a week in depreciation.

I've worked with people who have earned no more than I do but who are happy to spend £3,000 a year on car depreciation when all they needed was to get from A to B, I just could not countenance doing that.

I must say that pretty much ranks you as one of the people who have made the most out of bangernomics (I like that phrase!) very impressive. Presumably there is the potenital extra hassle factor of increased chance of car trouble for a much older car and big parts (know someone who needed a new engine on their 13yr old land rover which cost more than the car was worth). Then other things started going wrong afterwards.

Of course all these costs may be minor compared to new car depreciation but still a factor.

However I will completely admit that buying used and running for a long time is definitely the best thing to do for your wallet!

[Harry Monk]

I must say that pretty much ranks you as one of the people who have made the most out of bangernomics (I like that phrase!) very impressive. Presumably there is the potenital extra hassle factor of increased chance of car trouble for a much older car

I had the Sierra and the Rover for 13 years combined and in all that time I only ever called out Green Flag once, after three years of owning it, the cambelt snapped on the Sierra about 6 months after I had it replaced as routine maintenance. Luckily the 2.0 Pinto was a non-interference engine so I just got towed home and had a new belt fitted, cost about £100.

The Rover had a flat battery one Friday in 2010 when I got back to the yard so I had to get somebody to give me a jump-start, but they are the only two problems I've had in 13 years.

[MrPin]

You often see slightly older (Less elaborate headlamps etc.) Range Rovers at petrol stations where their owners are putting in £10 of fuel at a time. They usually have almost balding mis-matched, no-name tyres which would tell me that the owner is struggling to keep the thing on the road. But to the idiots that that guy is friends with, he's probably seen as a total player.

That will get them home then?

[MrPin]

You realise of course that it's only people like this (and company car fleet buyers / hire companies) that enable bangernomics to function. In order for you to buy a used bargain someone has to have bought a new car at some point and paid top whack for it.

It's a bit like what we had a few years ago with completely free banking, stoozing on credit cards, attractive cashback deals etc. Savvy people could get great deals because banks were making loads of money off idiot debtors.

Yes, I usually pay a couple of thousand pounds for a car which was £50k new! Obviously, since I not paying £500 a month for leasing it, I can afford to have it serviced! Which usually the last owner couldn't, hence why it is for sale in the first place!

[dangermaus]

I must say that pretty much ranks you as one of the people who have made the most out of bangernomics (I like that phrase!) very impressive. Presumably there is the potenital extra hassle factor of increased chance of car trouble for a much older car and big parts (know someone who needed a new engine on their 13yr old land rover which cost more than the car was worth). Then other things started going wrong afterwards.

Of course all these costs may be minor compared to new car depreciation but still a factor.

However I will completely admit that buying used and running for a long time is definitely the best thing to do for your wallet!

I've only been interested in bangernomics for one year, but my diesel fiesta cost me 500 and I sold it for 430 after one year when I moved abroad. No other costs except petrol.

slightly under 1.40 a week

[happy_renting]

I bought a Porsche 944 for £5500 and got £5000 for it 5 years later (technically, after I wrote it off). It was a bit pricey to maintain and thirsty too, but with £100 pa depreciation it was still cheap motoring. Buying a cheap classic - or on the cusp of becoming a classic - can be cheap motoring too.

[Frank Hovis]

Yes, I usually pay a couple of thousand pounds for a car which was £50k new! Obviously, since I not paying £500 a month for leasing it, I can afford to have it serviced! Which usually the last owner couldn't, hence why it is for sale in the first place!

I've only been interested in bangernomics for one year, but my diesel fiesta cost me 500 and I sold it for 430 after one year when I moved abroad. No other costs except petrol.

slightly under 1.40 a week

My next car (to the horror of my gf) will be a real cheapie. My last two cars have cost £22k between them. Whilst this is not much by the standard of an assistant manager at Mothercare I know, it is still a substantial wedge of discretionary spend. I miss having a car that looks slightly rough so I can leave it anywhere, have people back off when there's a gap to go for, and not worry about the odd scrape or dent. Plus I can do some work on it myself without worrying about making an expensive Horlicks of it.

I'm veering between Mr Pin's £2k for a once pricey car (I know somebody else who does this, changing his car every year and has had Mercs, BMWs and Jags) and the out and out cheapie a la dangermaus's diesel fiesta.

I'm trying to rationalise it to my gf by saying that with the mileage I'm doing I'm going to kill any car in five years anyway so there's no point buying a decent one.

[winkie]

Bought mine when it was two years old, 12 years ago.....never failed an MOT, low tax and insurance, good MPG....why would I risk the angel I know for a devil I don't know?

[@contradevian]

I bought a Porsche 944 for £5500 and got £5000 for it 5 years later (technically, after I wrote it off). It was a bit pricey to maintain and thirsty too, but with £100 pa depreciation it was still cheap motoring. Buying a cheap classic - or on the cusp of becoming a classic - can be cheap motoring too.

I used to do similar but not at your level. Throughout the 90's ran several Rover P6's, which were 20 odd years old then. Sold one to a collector a few spares cars accumulated went off to collectors and scrappers as required before I got bored with it all and moved to London, when running a small fleet would have been impractical. Oh and I also developed quite a habit at one time for Citroen CX's (much to my neighbours horror).

I wonder what the P6 of today would be, that would be on the cusp of being a banger to classic? Possibly the Rover 75 is getting that way, though a foreign Jap/German equivalent would be worth considering.

My most recent modern classic was a Citroen XM, and I don't think the dealer could believe his luck when I turned up with pound notes in exchange for removing it from his forecourt.

Recently went to look at a BX, and a Xantia but managed to resist this time round!

[ShedDweller]

My next car (to the horror of my gf) will be a real cheapie. My last two cars have cost £22k between them. Whilst this is not much by the standard of an assistant manager at Mothercare I know, it is still a substantial wedge of discretionary spend. I miss having a car that looks slightly rough so I can leave it anywhere, have people back off when there's a gap to go for, and not worry about the odd scrape or dent. Plus I can do some work on it myself without worrying about making an expensive Horlicks of it.

I'm veering between Mr Pin's £2k for a once pricey car (I know somebody else who does this, changing his car every year and has had Mercs, BMWs and Jags) and the out and out cheapie a la dangermaus's diesel fiesta.

I'm trying to rationalise it to my gf by saying that with the mileage I'm doing I'm going to kill any car in five years anyway so there's no point buying a decent one.

So I have alot of things to say about this ..

1. MOTHER MARY FULL OF GRACE I didn't see the program but what a terrible story ..

2. I like cars so I'm never going to win a bangernomics dicussion .. I could run the morris minor and the landrovers cheaper than I do .. but I don't .. On the other hand I do alot the work myself and only sub out stuff like reboreing the engine ..

3. Our neighbour had to give up driving .. his 1994 Ford Fiesta Classic (so the old shape) was for sale with 32,000 on the clock .. £400 ... I could not give the thing away .. apparently because it was white it was unsaleable .. My opinion was that the car alothough 19 years old, had been garaged and serviced it's whole life .. so really was in the same condition as a three year old car . Yes you might need shocks and some bushes (as these perish)at some time but other than that the car was basically perfect .. A friend told me that his neighbour a single mother had just had the head gasket go on her car and might be interested .. She "Wanted something better" and something that was not white .. Finally we found a girl who did not like the fact it was white . but made some purple flowers to put on it and it looked really quite fun .. She will pay the main dealer (independent garages are great but variable .. main dealers are consistant (usually consistantly bad) and for servicing perfect ..) £130 a year for a service .. and she will get 80mpg .. when the car dies she will get £100 for the corpse. at 10,000 miles a year it should last seven years at least ..

[MattW]

I used to do similar but not at your level. Throughout the 90's ran several Rover P6's, which were 20 odd years old then. Sold one to a collector a few spares cars accumulated went off to collectors and scrappers as required before I got bored with it all and moved to London, when running a small fleet would have been impractical. Oh and I also developed quite a habit at one time for Citroen CX's (much to my neighbours horror).

I wonder what the P6 of today would be, that would be on the cusp of being a banger to classic? Possibly the Rover 75 is getting that way, though a foreign Jap/German equivalent would be worth considering.

My most recent modern classic was a Citroen XM, and I don't think the dealer could believe his luck when I turned up with pound notes in exchange for removing it from his forecourt.

Recently went to look at a BX, and a Xantia but managed to resist this time round!

I get a bit gooey over big old Citroens. Fairly tempted with the idea of a CX. The XM seems more attainable but it's unusual parking brake arrangement bothers me.

If I was to become instantly wealthy, I'd have a post-1967Citroen DS. Would look great parked in front of my Art Deco style house (bought outright of course). I'd have a modern car as well, likely a Maserati.

[MrPin]

I've only been interested in bangernomics for one year, but my diesel fiesta cost me 500 and I sold it for 430 after one year when I moved abroad. No other costs except petrol.

slightly under 1.40 a week

I'll bet putting petrol in it broke it!

[MrPin]

I'm veering between Mr Pin's £2k for a once pricey car (I know somebody else who does this, changing his car every year and has had Mercs, BMWs and Jags) and the out and out cheapie a la dangermaus's diesel fiesta.

I'm trying to rationalise it to my gf by saying that with the mileage I'm doing I'm going to kill any car in five years anyway so there's no point buying a decent one.

Frank! I still have that Cadillac, and it doesn't look rough! Obviously it is not a vehicle for the extremely shy!

I only bought an expensive car once, and it was a maroon Ford Granada!

[MrPin]

I get a bit gooey over big old Citroens. Fairly tempted with the idea of a CX. The XM seems more attainable but it's unusual parking brake arrangement bothers me.

If I was to become instantly wealthy, I'd have a post-1967Citroen DS. Would look great parked in front of my Art Deco style house (bought outright of course). I'd have a modern car as well, likely a Maserati.

No! The Citroen is nice! I remember when they cost tuppence! I liked the way the upholstery wore out if you sat on it twice, and the trim (like door handles) would randomly fall off! Napoleon has a lot to answer for! The engines were good though! And a fairly stylish drive for those with a Burberry, stubble, and 40 Gitanes!

[dangermaus]

I'll bet putting petrol in it broke it!

lol well spotted.

[Jason]

I'm surprised no one has commented on the margins on the cars. Why would the dealer sell a car at the same cost he bought it for? I assume it wasn't sitting around for ages.

[LiveinHope]

I'm surprised no one has commented on the margins on the cars. Why would the dealer sell a car at the same cost he bought it for? I assume it wasn't sitting around for ages.

I don't think the dealer made anything on the point of sale of the last car I bought. I paid £100 more than the person received from the same dealer network for the trade-in - OK the previous owner bought a new car. I paid £1400 less than the forecourt price they advertised the car for on the internet. The car I bought had to be driven 50 miles between dealers to reach my local dealer - an hour of labour and diesel.

The only benefit I could see was that it was in and out in 48hrs, just enough time to valet it - I wasn't expecting them to do so given the price. They also replaced the rear window when I noticed that one of the rear heater elements didn't work. Mind you, I have bought my last 4 cars from them and always made it a fast, easy and unfussy transaction.

All the profit must have been in the original sale and in the new car the person bought. Essentially, they got rid of the second hand car on me for 'sales volumes' - 3yr old, 23k miles.

[ShedDweller]

If I was to become instantly wealthy, I'd have a post-1967Citroen DS. Would look great parked in front of my Art Deco style house (bought outright of course). I'd have a modern car as well, likely a Maserati.

Humm I think a vehicle doctor would prescribe a Citroen SM ..

[Executive Sadman]

Being repeated tonight...Mothercare must have very low standards is all I can say.

[Rare Bear]

I get a bit gooey over big old Citroens. Fairly tempted with the idea of a CX. The XM seems more attainable but it's unusual parking brake arrangement bothers me.

If I was to become instantly wealthy, I'd have a post-1967Citroen DS. Would look great parked in front of my Art Deco style house (bought outright of course). I'd have a modern car as well, likely a Maserati.

In that case you really should have an SM then. Citroen with Maser engine.

[MrPin]

In that case you really should have an SM then. Citroen with Maser engine.

What a way to blow a lot of money! Elegant, but I think the DS might be more reliable! The engines and suspension were tops! When they came out in 1955 (wow !), they cost twice as much as a Jag Mk1 in the UK!

[rxe]

As someone has said further up, I am eternally grateful to those people who buy new cars and chop them in after 3 years: they provide me with a plentiful supply of good used cars for peanuts. The daft status attitude is everywhere. An acquaintance (other parent at school) was complaining about the courtesy car provided by the garage. Her complaint was not that it was smaller or less powerful....but that it was 5 years old, and "what would people think?".

My approach to bangernomics is to buy a 3 or 4 year old car and run it pretty much forever. In 2002, we bought my current car (£26K new) for £13K - it was 9 months old and had 3000 miles on the clock. So it has cost us a grand a year in depreciation, + servicing, which I do myself, so parts cost only. I see no reason why it will not last another 5 years, so the depreciation cost will be down to about £700 a year by then. But even then, depreciation will continue to be the biggest part of the fixed running cost.

The alternative is to get a "new" banger every year or so, and sometimes you win, but sometimes you lose big. The "long term banger" approach allows you to speculatively get parts when they are cheap - my parts factor did a discount on service kits 2 years ago, I bought 4 of them. I've just used the second.....

[fluffy666]

As someone has said further up, I am eternally grateful to those people who buy new cars and chop them in after 3 years: they provide me with a plentiful supply of good used cars for peanuts. The daft status attitude is everywhere. An acquaintance (other parent at school) was complaining about the courtesy car provided by the garage. Her complaint was not that it was smaller or less powerful....but that it was 5 years old, and "what would people think?".

My approach to bangernomics is to buy a 3 or 4 year old car and run it pretty much forever. In 2002, we bought my current car (£26K new) for £13K - it was 9 months old and had 3000 miles on the clock. So it has cost us a grand a year in depreciation, + servicing, which I do myself, so parts cost only. I see no reason why it will not last another 5 years, so the depreciation cost will be down to about £700 a year by then. But even then, depreciation will continue to be the biggest part of the fixed running cost.

The alternative is to get a "new" banger every year or so, and sometimes you win, but sometimes you lose big. The "long term banger" approach allows you to speculatively get parts when they are cheap - my parts factor did a discount on service kits 2 years ago, I bought 4 of them. I've just used the second.....

I go for the £3-4k range.. I like having a semi-decent car, I don't want a complete wreck, but £3-4k is about as much as I can save up for it. The thing is, because it's my hard-saved cash I spend a fair amount of time looking for the best deal before buying, probably more than if you are just looking at a monthly payment.

[@contradevian]

I get a bit gooey over big old Citroens. Fairly tempted with the idea of a CX. The XM seems more attainable but it's unusual parking brake arrangement bothers me.

If I was to become instantly wealthy, I'd have a post-1967Citroen DS. Would look great parked in front of my Art Deco style house (bought outright of course). I'd have a modern car as well, likely a Maserati.

Did briefly have a D Super 5 which was actually Slough built!

The XM is pretty much rust proof, which the CX famously wasn't of course, and ideally you want a Series One, with the weird steering wheel and weird instruments. You would really struggle to find a rust free one now, even in France.

Probably worth looking at the C5 now which has hydraulic suspension. Early ones now in the sub £1000 class.