Democorruptcy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 More slave labour. A hospital trust is planning to extend a scheme under which dozens of unpaid jobseekers help deliver patient care in its wards. After a pilot involving six unemployed people working unpaid for eight weeks to help feed patients and clean wards, Sandwell and West Birmingham hospitals trust said it was aiming to extend the government work experience programme to all three of its hospitals. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/may/21/unpaid-jobseekers-deliver-patient-care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Unpaid? Presumably they are in receipt of benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russe11 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 a step to far, if the jobs are there, employ the jobseekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomberbrown Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 1337626944[/url]' post='909044742']Unpaid? Presumably they are in receipt of benefits. Indeed, unlike the recent Tesco and pound land debacle. At least these job seekers won't be lining the pockets of private companies and shareholders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 Indeed, unlike the recent Tesco and pound land debacle. At least these job seekers won't be lining the pockets of private companies and shareholders. Maybe the money saved on wages can just be added to those at the top? Will some NHS manager get a bonus because the costs are lower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russe11 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Indeed, unlike the recent Tesco and pound land debacle. At least these job seekers won't be lining the pockets of private companies and shareholders. cleaning services in hospitals are contracted out to private companies though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomberbrown Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 1337627355[/url]' post='909044751']Maybe the money saved on wages can just be added to those at the top? Will some NHS manager get a bonus because the costs are lower? 1337627430[/url]' post='909044753']cleaning services in hospitals are contracted out to private companies though? I take both points on board, but it all depends on how the whole things arranged/financed. It boils down to whether these job seekers are REPLACING or ENHANCING current services. I would like to think it is the latter, but your guess is as good as mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Unpaid? Presumably they are in receipt of benefits. This is an amount less than the legal minimum wage. You cannot be employed for less than this amount. Unless- that is- unemployed people are to be considered as somehow deserving of less legal rights before the law than you currently enjoy. If this is totally voluntary that's a different matter- but if it's forced then the people involved are being denied a legal right and this is unequal treatment before the law- quite an important principle to defend I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 If they are job seekers they should be seeking jobs NOT doing unpaid work. And of course the NHS manager overseeing this work is also unpaid ... and who was doing this, I assume, essential work before? There lies the hypocrisy, If you are unemployed and you go on holiday you have to be available for work and still prove you are actively seeking work when you are away if you sill want to receive JSA yet there is no need if you are a unpaid slave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkwell Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) I agree with wonderpup and would go a step further. It doesn't matter whether it's voluntary or not, it is a dangerous precedent that the government should not be setting. Desperate people will do a lot of things 'voluntarily' for money, doesn't mean they should all become policy. I'm pleased the work is in the public sector (and wish they would stop contracting for cleaners etc), but still think the hours are wrong. Since when does work experience in order to make you employable equal doing two months full time work of any unskilled type? They should be doing a maximum of two days a week and spend the rest looking for employment. Making them work full time will just reduce the need for actual employees. The scheme itself should be very limited in usage for this reason alone. Overuse will add to the problem until we have a slave underclass. Edited May 21, 2012 by Parkwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufflesTheGuineaPig Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Unpaid workers being forced to clean hospital wards. What can possibly go wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damik Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 This is an amount less than the legal minimum wage. You cannot be employed for less than this amount. Unless- that is- unemployed people are to be considered as somehow deserving of less legal rights before the law than you currently enjoy. If this is totally voluntary that's a different matter- but if it's forced then the people involved are being denied a legal right and this is unequal treatment before the law- quite an important principle to defend I feel. you seem to believe that money for the social security is coming from a thin air and it is unlimited in both cases you are wrong I have to commute 5h every day to do my job for a privilege to be taxed 60/70% of anything I earn above £35k making a law, which does not care where the money are coming from, will not be the law for long -> aka Greece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russe11 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) you seem to believe that money for the social security is coming from a thin air and it is unlimited in both cases you are wrong I have to commute 5h every day to do my job for a privilege to be taxed 60/70% of anything I earn above £35k making a law, which does not care where the money are coming from, will not be the law for long -> aka Greece get yourself an accountant, if you already have one, sack them and get a better one. most likely answer is your 60-70% is plucked out of thin air. Edited May 21, 2012 by Russe11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corevalue Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 you seem to believe that money for the social security is coming from a thin air and it is unlimited in both cases you are wrong I have to commute 5h every day to do my job for a privilege to be taxed 60/70% of anything I earn above £35k making a law, which does not care where the money are coming from, will not be the law for long -> aka Greece Perhaps you should be compelled to work a couple of days a week, for nothing, emptying bedpans whilst one of the jobseekers takes your place and salary? You're resource hogging, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Gordon Pugh Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 you seem to believe that money for the social security is coming from a thin air and it is unlimited in both cases you are wrong I have to commute 5h every day to do my job for a privilege to be taxed 60/70% of anything I earn above £35k making a law, which does not care where the money are coming from, will not be the law for long -> aka Greece No problem. When this little scam from the government gets going, you will be sacked, and re-employed on JSA doing the same job and wont have to pay any tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flopsy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 If people are forced to do this, then it puts those of us who use the hopitals in the firing line of any anger people may want to put in our direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Of course, we know where this slave labour initiative will stop. Sooner or later, one of the paid for carers is going to ask one of the unpaid carers to administer something that could seriously harm a patient if not done correctly/properly. At that point there will be an inquest, the unpaid carer will be arrested for causing a death but the inquest will conclude that as the worker was unpaid, they cannot be held liable for their actions. And then there will be no more unpaid carers anywhere ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Just sign off and claim WTC as S/E working more than 30 hours a week. You just need to generate roughly an extra £20 a week (the difference between JSA and WTC) plus continue to be eligible for HB and CT. At least you are time rich again and can't be used for cheap labour by a supermarket or local hospital trust. Suspect this forced labour is being used to force people to sign off. Expect a boom in "small business creation!" Of course then they will start wielding the axe on WTC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uro_who Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) In most hospitals cleaning and feeding the patients are contracted out to facilities management companies like ISS/sodexo etc,. They traditionally employ recent immigrants from Pakistan/Poland etc. As NHS funding to hospitals is cut (all of the increase in funding you hear about is in efficiency gains of 5-6% per year) many Trusts are putting the squeeze (in their usual amateur way) on the FM providers. No doubt this has lead to the new wheeze of 'what could be cheaper than minimum wage recent immigrants?'. Ah yes, free unemployed people. Look on the bright side, at least the PFI bondholders are still getting their cash. Edited May 22, 2012 by uro_who Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damik Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) No problem. When this little scam from the government gets going, you will be sacked, and re-employed on JSA doing the same job and wont have to pay any tax. so you will move from public to private sector to work on something, what can be exported win-win for both of us Edited May 22, 2012 by Damik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damik Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 get yourself an accountant, if you already have one, sack them and get a better one. most likely answer is your 60-70% is plucked out of thin air. let me educate you: PAYE for anything above £43k: 40% income tax + 20% VAT + fuel duty + NI + council tax -> total taxing around 70% fortunately I do not drink or smoke otherwise I will be subsidizing the society even more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpewLabour Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I have to commute 5h every day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Unpaid workers being forced to clean hospital wards. What can possibly go wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Of course, we know where this slave labour initiative will stop. Sooner or later, one of the paid for carers is going to ask one of the unpaid carers to administer something that could seriously harm a patient if not done correctly/properly. At that point there will be an inquest, the unpaid carer will be arrested for causing a death but the inquest will conclude that as the worker was unpaid, they cannot be held liable for their actions. And then there will be no more unpaid carers anywhere ever again. Utter utter nonsense!! The next outbreack of MSRA would be more than sufficient. mmm pressure ulcers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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