Havoc Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Link Here: The number of university leavers vying for relatively well-paid jobs has almost trebled in just three years, it has emerged. Among investment banks, some 232 candidates are applying for each position, while an average 188 graduates are competing for positions in energy or utilities companies. The disclosure – in data published by the Association of Graduate Recruiters (AGR) – underlines the extent to which the jobs market has failed to keep pace with the expansion of university places in recent years. Candidates leaving university without at least a 2:1 are likely to miss out, as almost three quarters of firms say this is a minimum requirement. It suggests thousands of graduates are likely to be forced onto the dole queue or take up low-paid work in bars, supermarkets and building sites to make ends meet. Buying houses on low-paid work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonkers Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Link Here: Buying houses on low-paid work? What would be the figures for five and ten years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) What would be the figures for five and ten years ago? Evening Standard "Employers are now receiving 83 applications on average for each job - almost double the numbers of two years ago (49), and nearly treble compared to three years ago (31), the bi-annual Association of Graduate Recruiters (AGR) survey has found." So it seems triple are applying for each role than 3 years ago. Fair jump. Ona side note - saying 83 graduates are chasing one job is completely incorrect. Unless of course they all only apply for a single role. Which they don't. These 83 graduates will probably apply for 10 roles or more each. So in fact it is more likely to be ~8 graduates chasing one job rather than 83. Let's not get in the way of sensationialist media though. Edited June 28, 2011 by ccc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBingo Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Don't envy them, when I joined the professional world after uni I had employers competing to get me. That was only 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 1979 I left school at 16 along with most of my class we all had a few GCSE's as they were then and maybe an ' O ' level or two. Those that left at Easter without taking any exams ended up in Dead end jobs , shops, painting and decorating , labour's ect. Those that decided to stay on to 6th form were looked at as a bit up themselves . As for any thoughts of Uni apart from that boring programme on the telly with questions no one could answer we did not use the word or really know what it was about. For the rest of us we got jobs in Banks, Insurance companies, Civil Service, other offices and many boys took Apprenticeships. It was just a right of passage leaving school and getting a job . We all left at the end of June and most did not start their jobs untill September , so we had a choice for the summer either sign on which you could do the day you left and get about £18 per week or take a summer job . There were plenty of those jobs about . Fast forward 32 years and the Graduates of today are going to be ending up doing the jobs that some of us turned our noses up at to fill in during that summer. How times have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 So it seems triple are applying for each role than 3 years ago. Fair jump. Ona side note - saying 83 graduates are chasing one job is completely incorrect. Unless of course they all only apply for a single role. Which they don't. These 83 graduates will probably apply for 10 roles or more each. So in fact it is more likely to be ~8 graduates chasing one job rather than 83. Let's not get in the way of sensationialist media though. I don't think you are correct; most of these type of employers run graduate schemes which you only apply to once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Maybe serving staff will now be able to get your order right? Oh no wait, they've all done media studies haven't they, bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gardener Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Evening Standard "Employers are now receiving 83 applications on average for each job - almost double the numbers of two years ago (49), and nearly treble compared to three years ago (31), the bi-annual Association of Graduate Recruiters (AGR) survey has found." So it seems triple are applying for each role than 3 years ago. Fair jump. Ona side note - saying 83 graduates are chasing one job is completely incorrect. Unless of course they all only apply for a single role. Which they don't. These 83 graduates will probably apply for 10 roles or more each. So in fact it is more likely to be ~8 graduates chasing one job rather than 83. Let's not get in the way of sensationialist media though. Maybe so. Still not good odds though. Anecdotally the job market is terrible at the moment. Looks like an awful lot of students picked the wrong year to graduate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 1979 I left school at 16 along with most of my class we all had a few GCSE's as they were then and maybe an ' O ' level or two. Those that left at Easter without taking any exams ended up in Dead end jobs , shops, painting and decorating , labour's ect. Those that decided to stay on to 6th form were looked at as a bit up themselves . As for any thoughts of Uni apart from that boring programme on the telly with questions no one could answer we did not use the word or really know what it was about. For the rest of us we got jobs in Banks, Insurance companies, Civil Service, other offices and many boys took Apprenticeships. It was just a right of passage leaving school and getting a job . We all left at the end of June and most did not start their jobs untill September , so we had a choice for the summer either sign on which you could do the day you left and get about £18 per week or take a summer job . There were plenty of those jobs about . Fast forward 32 years and the Graduates of today are going to be ending up doing the jobs that some of us turned our noses up at to fill in during that summer. How times have changed. Why are they dead end jobs ? Many people have entered these apparent dead end jobs and done VERY well for themselves. I don't think you are correct; most of these type of employers run graduate schemes which you only apply to once. I think you have missed the point entirely. These individuals will be applying for more than one of these schemes. So saying 83 people are applying for one role makes it sounds a lot worse than it really is. 83 people will each be applying for maybe 10 of these roles. Not great odds but nowhere near as bad as 83-1. Maybe so. Still not good odds though. Anecdotally the job market is terrible at the moment. Looks like an awful lot of students picked the wrong year to graduate. Not great - that is for sure. However there are people still dong well out there. Just got a lot harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Why are they dead end jobs ? Many people have entered these apparent dead end jobs and done VERY well for themselves. Yes don't dissagree that some have entered these types of jobs and done well. However I called them dead end jobs as that is what they were know as back then , jobs that needed no qualifications and did have trouble attracting and keeping staff. Especially the shops , yes some have done well in retail but the % who have out of those employed is very low the hours long and the pay not that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Yes don't dissagree that some have entered these types of jobs and done well. However I called them dead end jobs as that is what they were know as back then , jobs that needed no qualifications and did have trouble attracting and keeping staff. Especially the shops , yes some have done well in retail but the % who have out of those employed is very low the hours long and the pay not that good. Maybe the dead end job of today is the opportunity of tomorrow ? Definitely true in my day. Everyone looked down at those going into a 'trade' or the likes. When a few years later most were doing very well. Changed now of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Maybe the dead end job of today is the opportunity of tomorrow ? Definitely true in my day. Everyone looked down at those going into a 'trade' or the likes. When a few years later most were doing very well. Changed now of course. So the jobs Everyone looked down on in your day have come full circle . Maybe the dead end job of today is the opportunity of tomorrow , but more likley the opportunity of today is going to be the dead end job of tomorrow or gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsick Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 After sniffing around a bit I would say these are the relevant facts , 1 - there are about 600k fresh graduates each year , the top 100 graduate employers have 15k places on their schemes, I would imagine these are the jobs people imagine they will get when they go to uni,a proper old school "graduate job" being a placement on a grad scheme at a top 100 employer , However clearly only 1 in 40 will achieve that . It looks like 40-1 odds when your stake is 30k of debt are bad odds unless you are going to oxbridge ... I graduated in 1989 with no tuition fees and even a cash grant and it was fairly easy then to get one of these places if you were half motivated, the starting salaries in the fields I was looking at were banking 15k , accounting 10k , oil and gas 17k these now seem to be banking 30k accounting 26k and oil and gas 32k so on average about double after 22 years , after 2 years working not very hard I was on 25k and could buy an 80k 2 bed flat in Hampstead with a 100% mortgage , Now that would be 450k+ rather than 160k if the house prices had moved in line with pay , I don't see most kids at uni now have a hope in hell of getting a decent job and when they do after 2 years there is no way they can buy a place of their own in an OK part of London .. I don't know why we didn't stick with having a small number go to Uni and fully funding it for them .... We now end up with 39 out of 40 in debt and struggling and a bloated education sector pouring the fees into waste of time research projects .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 What would be the figures for five and ten years ago? When I applied for a job as a graduate in 1999, there were 150 applicants to my firm for 50 jobs, so 3 to 1. Obviously other firms would have varied!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monks Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Why are they dead end jobs ? Many people have entered these apparent dead end jobs and done VERY well for themselves. Exactly. They are only dead end jobs if you have dead end ambitions. I meet demolition contractors, decorators, gardeners etc all the time who are earning GP style wages or more. There is no cap on your earnings WHATEVER job you go into now. The latest CEO's of Tescos started as a shelf stacker -(Ok, he was 14 at the time so had a little head start on a 21 year old...) As for the original story, it relates to people chasing jobs in Investment Banks - well who wouldn't be chasing a job in Banking today?? I'm surprised the figures aren't higher. Show me the ratios for ordinary jobs across the country please, paying £20 - £25K... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 After sniffing around a bit I would say these are the relevant facts , 1 - there are about 600k fresh graduates each year , the top 100 graduate employers have 15k places on their schemes, I would imagine these are the jobs people imagine they will get when they go to uni,a proper old school "graduate job" being a placement on a grad scheme at a top 100 employer , However clearly only 1 in 40 will achieve that . It looks like 40-1 odds when your stake is 30k of debt are bad odds unless you are going to oxbridge ... I graduated in 1989 with no tuition fees and even a cash grant and it was fairly easy then to get one of these places if you were half motivated, the starting salaries in the fields I was looking at were banking 15k , accounting 10k , oil and gas 17k these now seem to be banking 30k accounting 26k and oil and gas 32k so on average about double after 22 years , after 2 years working not very hard I was on 25k and could buy an 80k 2 bed flat in Hampstead with a 100% mortgage , Now that would be 450k+ rather than 160k if the house prices had moved in line with pay , I don't see most kids at uni now have a hope in hell of getting a decent job and when they do after 2 years there is no way they can buy a place of their own in an OK part of London .. I don't know why we didn't stick with having a small number go to Uni and fully funding it for them .... We now end up with 39 out of 40 in debt and struggling and a bloated education sector pouring the fees into waste of time research projects .... What catsick said, saved me typing it. Most students are just wasting their money by getting a worthless degree at a so-called university. They may as well go travelling for three years as that will also give them a good life experience. Unless they've been somewhere decent I just look at the A level subjects and results when going through CVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Maybe so. Still not good odds though. Anecdotally the job market is terrible at the moment. Looks like an awful lot of students picked the wrong year to graduate. Its been a bad year to graduate since the 90s tbh, I'm still seeing trainee accounts/lawyer jobs on £11K a year hasn't moved in 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Exactly. They are only dead end jobs if you have dead end ambitions. I meet demolition contractors, decorators, gardeners etc all the time who are earning GP style wages or more. There is no cap on your earnings WHATEVER job you go into now. The latest CEO's of Tescos started as a shelf stacker -(Ok, he was 14 at the time so had a little head start on a 21 year old...) As for the original story, it relates to people chasing jobs in Investment Banks - well who wouldn't be chasing a job in Banking today?? I'm surprised the figures aren't higher. Show me the ratios for ordinary jobs across the country please, paying £20 - £25K... These super sucess stories are the exception and not the norm, and remember those who did the super sucess stories would they be able to replicate it now? The Tesco guy for example would not have been offered the shelf stacker job, instead an Eastern European would have been offered it on NMW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman001 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Agreed, exception to the rule. Also, good post by catsick (lol)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Don't envy them, when I joined the professional world after uni I had employers competing to get me. That was only 2000. Every recession sees graduates struggling for jobs. Every boom sees employers struggling for graduates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I don't think you are correct; most of these type of employers run graduate schemes which you only apply to once. Of course he's (qualitatively) correct! Noone applies for only one job - unless they have some pretty strong reason to expect to get it. If you're looking for a job, you apply for many of them. Most of all when you're well-qualified but not over-specialised - as is the case for a new graduate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Every boom sees employers struggling for graduates. Which translates into we don't want to pay so much... Back in the 00s I remember my accountant bosses saying the industry is extremely short of accountants we need more. While paying people £13-£18K..... a lot of accountants did join and pay is around £11K-£15K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Of course he's (qualitatively) correct! Noone applies for only one job - unless they have some pretty strong reason to expect to get it. If you're looking for a job, you apply for many of them. Most of all when you're well-qualified but not over-specialised - as is the case for a new graduate. BTW, this is the same spin that drove the 1960s expansion of higher education. They created the UCCA, whose standard university application form encouraged everyone to apply for five places, So instantly they had statistics showing five applicants for every place, and thus had to expand provision. Meanwhile people like my dad - who was a polytechnic lecturer - struggled to find any half-qualified applicants for less-than-popular courses, and had to take many who needed remedial literacy help and suchlike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffneck Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Yes don't dissagree that some have entered these types of jobs and done well. However I called them dead end jobs as that is what they were know as back then , jobs that needed no qualifications and did have trouble attracting and keeping staff. Especially the shops , yes some have done well in retail but the % who have out of those employed is very low the hours long and the pay not that good. Do you have more respect for someone who sits on the dole or someone who does on of these 'dead end jobs' ? Some people may look down on binmen but personally i just see it as something that needs to be done and people obviously have to do those jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidcameron Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 the top 100 graduate employers have 15k places on their schemes That's total crap. The big accountants pull in several thousand each per year on their own. Try adding up all the numbers on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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