libspero Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I am an ex-secondary school teacher and have taught in public and private schools in Britain and in Europe. Well said Most old-school teachers I've met express similar views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Going back to catchment areas briefly.. Isn't it a geographical thing for a reason? For example, if I live next door to a bad school and I'm told I'm too poor for my kids to go there.. doesn't that mean I will have to drive half way across town every day rather than them just walk to school? Likewise for rich kids living next door to good schools.. does this mean we advocate their parents driving across town and dropping them off in the X5 every day? Seems a bit of a rubbish idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 State education is nothing more than glorified childcare which is fine if you need to work. You don't need expensive private schools to educate your kids to GCSE standard. That can be done at home without being a pushy parent. My children will have a full grasp of the 3Rs before they begin primary school and by the time they enter secondary education they'll be fluent in French/German (wife has a degree in modern languages) and play a musical instrument (tutor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Going back to catchment areas briefly.. Isn't it a geographical thing for a reason? For example, if I live next door to a bad school and I'm told I'm too poor for my kids to go there.. doesn't that mean I will have to drive half way across town every day rather than them just walk to school? Likewise for rich kids living next door to good schools.. does this mean we advocate their parents driving across town and dropping them off in the X5 every day? Seems a bit of a rubbish idea. And rubbish for the environment also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 State education is nothing more than glorified childcare which is fine if you need to work. You don't need expensive private schools to educate your kids to GCSE standard. That can be done at home without being a pushy parent. My children will have a full grasp of the 3Rs before they begin primary school and by the time they enter secondary education they'll be fluent in French/German (wife has a degree in modern languages) and play a musical instrument (tutor). People don't send their kids to expensive private schools just to educate them, there are many options for that as you have highlighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 If people from that background are the ones who are being succesful because of, and not in spite of that environment, then it does raise the question of whether they or not they're being succesful at the expense of others, just like criminals. The only ones who should be allowed to succeed are those who haven't just worked out how to make themselves wealthy off the back of other peoples' effort. I don't work in the public sector. Didn't say you did if you read the post. And who is going to allow who to succeed exactly? Now get back to that copy of Pravda and make sure you have pinned up the copy of the communal cleaning schedule for your apartment block. Did Mrs Jones spend enough time reading out the tractor production statistics or are you going to have to report her to the information network committee comrade? And didn't the Grants have a son leave home recently? They haven't reported that to the accomodation sub committee for worker drones zone 4 they will have to be downsized. And who is going to allow who to succeed exactly....... I thought the socialism virus was finally eradicated in the 90's looks like Mrs T's work isn't done yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffneck Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I was forced into a grammar school because of excellent scores on my 11 plus. All my friends went to the 'normal' schools. Best thing that ever happened to me. A couple of people in my intake came from similar council estates. Life changing for both of them. well yes , shouldn't the smartest kids be given the opportunity to go to the best schools , not necessarily the richest kids? i'm not for government subsidising all the poor kids to be able to go to the rich private schools though , maybe more scholarship programs would be a better option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thod Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I came from one of those working class household where both parents left school at 15 and could not see any value in education. As a result I never cared about it, never did any homework and frequently showed up late. However I sat down a couple of weeks before the O levels with the books, crammed it in and passed. At A level I noticed a strange effect. Those kids that I thought were good started to fail. They just could not grasp what was being taught. Once again I managed to pass A levels with almost no effort. At university the same thing occured. Lots of the students just couldn't get their heads around the material. I actually gave up going to lectures all together and just bought the book, and passed with no effort. I was one of those students who never does anything but party yet still manages to get A's at the highest level. This little story is to illustrate that bright parents can have dumb kids and dumb parents bright kids. If we want to produce the optimal outcome, we select on ability. If you test that at 11 you will find the hard-workers come out best, test it at 21 it is the brightest because the hard-workers won't understand the material. I would base entry on IQ tests since these do not test accumulated knowledge, rather they determine how far you will be able to progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Big win for the fee-paying sector. The catchment area cost uplift will now be spent on middling independent day schools at £3k a term. Catchment areas was just another example of housing costs soaking up money that would be more productive elsewhere in the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicker Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Catchment areas was just another example of housing costs soaking up money that would be more productive elsewhere in the economy. I've just arranged to move to get into a good school catchment area and this thread has made me doubt the wisdom of it. Modern Britain is a very strange place Btw the best performing schools are in the most expensive areas except the local grammar school which is hugely popular and on a council estaste with high crime . The parents mostly drive their kids to school because of the fear of crime factor. Very very few children live close to the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) I've just arranged to move to get into a good school catchment area and this thread has made me doubt the wisdom of it. Modern Britain is a very strange place Btw the best performing schools are in the most expensive areas except the local grammar school which is hugely popular and on a council estaste with high crime . The parents mostly drive their kids to school because of the fear of crime factor. Very very few children live close to the school. ....all schools should be good ie fit for purpose.....all children should at 16 be able to read, write and count. edit spelling mistake. Edited May 28, 2011 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver surfer Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I came from one of those working class household where both parents left school at 15 and could not see any value in education. As a result I never cared about it, never did any homework and frequently showed up late. However I sat down a couple of weeks before the O levels with the books, crammed it in and passed. At A level I noticed a strange effect. Those kids that I thought were good started to fail. They just could not grasp what was being taught. Once again I managed to pass A levels with almost no effort. At university the same thing occured. Lots of the students just couldn't get their heads around the material. I actually gave up going to lectures all together and just bought the book, and passed with no effort. I was one of those students who never does anything but party yet still manages to get A's at the highest level. This little story is to illustrate that bright parents can have dumb kids and dumb parents bright kids. If we want to produce the optimal outcome, we select on ability. If you test that at 11 you will find the hard-workers come out best, test it at 21 it is the brightest because the hard-workers won't understand the material. I would base entry on IQ tests since these do not test accumulated knowledge, rather they determine how far you will be able to progress. I noticed this as well. At my school there were some kids that worked very hard (some had a background in common, let's not go there). They got 7A's and 1B or such like at O level. Then at A level they just dropped off, getting two D's and a U or something. Hard work could only get you so far in making up the difference in intelligence at some point the stuff being taught becomes difficult enough to rule out a good percentage of the students. Now the problem is GSCE's are so easy and A levels are easier most students won't find they are not smart enough until they're 30K in debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I liked this but it took me a bit of time. I think that this sort of stuff only demostrates that you are well practiced at doing the tests rather than actually smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I liked this but it took me a bit of time. I think that this sort of stuff only demostrates that you are well practiced at doing the tests rather than actually smart. ...and? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicker Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 ....all schools should be good ie fit for purpose.....all children should at 16 be able to read, write and count. edit spelling mistake. Is this true in schools that have 70% of children leaving without 3 GCSEs at A-C level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 ...and? 5 I recxkon ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 5 I recxkon ! Top of the class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 ....all schools should be good ie fit for purpose.....all children should at 16 be able to read, write and count. In my day, primary school ended at 11. Anyone past 11 and unable to read, write, and count was clearly in need of a different approach. Not more of the same - i.e. school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Top of the class. Like I said - I think it took me too long. It was fun though. Thanks for posting ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noodle doodle Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) I thought 5 as well, and I passed all my exams without doing a sod of work. See Rick in the young ones asking to be tested on the daily mirror book of facts? That's me, that is. Actually I did guess 5, but I have no idea why that's the right answer, apart from cos a line goes into the bottom right corner, but then i see 1 does that too. So not only am I clever, I'm lucky, and that's gotta be worth more. Edited May 28, 2011 by noodle doodle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_w_ Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_w_ Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Top of the class. Damn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 In my day, primary school ended at 11. Anyone past 11 and unable to read, write, and count was clearly in need of a different approach. Not more of the same - i.e. school. +1 You stole my thunder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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