Breaking News - Greece Threatens To Leave The Euro

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

I think you will find we have at least as many religious 'nutters' here as they do in the US.

No, we don't.

We really don't.

[Game_Over]

+1

They are extremely different in many respects. In general the UK has much more in common culturally with northern europeans than americans.

Unless you live/work over there then it's difficult to understand or appreciate the differences.

The politically correct establishment and ruling elite in the UK have more in common with the Europeans.

The ordinary people of this country have far more in common with the United States.

Ordinary people in this country want free speech and democracy.

Our ruling elite and establishment who have been thoroughly infiltrated by the left

want an unchallenged, undemocratic, utterly corrupt political gravy train.

[Game_Over]

No, we don't.

We really don't.

So how many US born religious nutters have blown themselves up on the New York subway recently?

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

Not sure how you arrive at this conclusion.

The US was a British colony - they speak the same language, they share the same religion and culturally we are virtually inseperable.

The reason France doesn't like the US is because our relationship with the US has enabled us to prevent the creation of a European superstate on 3 seperate occasions in the 20th Century alone.

For those who want an undemocratic, totalitarian European superstate then yes - We and the US are 'the enemy'

TBH, the left have now so infiltrated our institutions and establishment that I'm not sure we will be able to stop the b*stards this time.

How do you come to this conclusion that the UK shares more in common with the US than NE clturally and socially, based on what actual real personal experience? im guessing none from your conclusion

Having spent time living in the 3 places i can only assume you live in a parallel universe

Edited May 7, 2011 by georgia o'keeffe

[Game_Over]

How do you come to this conclusion that the UK shares more in common with the US than NE clturally and socially, based on what actual real personal experience? im guessing none from your conclusion

Having spent time living in the 3 places i can only assume you live in a parallel universe

Funny how all the things I keep imagining in my parellel universe keep happening in the real world.

And how all the things other people tell me are going to happen in the real world turn out to be utter fantasy.

[Bruce Banner]

Ordinary people in this country want free speech and democracy.

Are you for real?

Ordinary people in this country want to be looked after by a nanny state. They don't give a damn about freedom of speech and democracy, the more cameras the better.. "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear"... they chant in unison .

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

Funny how all the things I keep imagining in my parellel universe keep happening in the real world.

And how all the things other people tell me are going to happen in the real world turn out to be utter fantasy.

im not talking about Europes continual make ups and break ups throughout history or what is happening now. Im just highlighting that in my experience you are on another planet with regards which places the uk is most similar to and shares more identity with. starting wars with your neighbours isnt particularly relevant, i tend to have more disagreements with the wife than i do with her sister, it might have something to do with seeing her every day and relying on her more

Edited May 7, 2011 by georgia o'keeffe

[Number79]

I think you will find we have at least as many religious 'nutters' here as they do in the US.

And we will have to see how much we have in common with Europe as it descends into chaos over the next 10-20 years.

That was one of the points made in the Vanessa Feltz radio interview someone posted a link to the other day.

You are way, way off.

[Number79]

So how many US born religious nutters have blown themselves up on the New York subway recently?

about the same number of englishmen?

[Game_Over]

im not talking about Europes continual make ups and break ups throughout history or what is happening now. Im just highlighting that in my experience you are on another planet with regards which places the uk is most similar to and shares more identity with. starting wars with your neighbours isnt particularly relevant, i tend to have more disagreements with the wife than i do with her sister, it might have something to do with seeing her every day and relying on her more

Well, for starters we share a common language with the US

US law is based on English common law

The state religion of the UK is Protestant and for most of its history the US has been a protestant country.

Half the TV shows in the UK are American.

We have been on the same side in virtually every war fought in the last century or so.

I can think of literally hundreds of similarites and no differences.

[Game_Over]

about the same number of englishmen?

Controversial.

[Number79]

Controversial.

Not really. One was jamacan born and the other three of pakistani descent.

I dont know anyone that would regard them as english and only a few that would consider them as british tbh.

Edited May 7, 2011 by richyc

[Game_Over]

Not really. One was jamacan born and the other three of pakistani descent.

I dont know anyone that would regard them as english and only a few that would consider them as british tbh.

So at least three of them were British born religious nutters and the other was no doubt a British citizen.

Having been accused of living in a parallel universe, I just think it is a bit rich when people tell me the US is full of religious nutters

when the UK is probably the World capital for religious nutters these days.

[Rare Bear]

Erm the US$ has not lasted centuries. The dollar of today is only 40 years old, as the old dollars immediately changed after the nixon shock.

Much like UK£ sterling, its gone on and off the silver and gold standard but each time it is a new currency.

Although the dollar is a lot stronger against sterling than 40 years ago.

[Number79]

So at least three of them were British born religious nutters and the other was no doubt a British citizen.

Having been accused of living in a parallel universe, I just think it is a bit rich when people tell me the US is full of religious nutters

when the UK is probably the World capital for religious nutters these days.

I would suggest that the world capital for religious nutters is where that trio came from. The US is definitely in the top 5 though.

Our churches are old, mostly empty even on sundays and pretty much only visited for weddings and christenings. Can you say the same of the US? In terms of religion the US are still back where we were at the time of Victoria.

[Chuffy Chuffnell]

I would suggest that the world capital for religious nutters is where that trio came from. The US is definitely in the top 5 though.

Our churches are old, mostly empty even on sundays and pretty much only visited for weddings and christenings. Can you say the same of the US? In terms of religion the US are still back where we were at the time of Victoria.

Actually, as far as I'm aware, for most of the country even in the Victorian era the people were not really church attenders... maybe in rural areas, but not the cities, not from the latter decades of the 19th C.

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/eu-greece-we-want-help-you-help-yourself-and-we-want-own-you-after-you-file-bankruptcy

Recession

recovery

Sovereign Debt

Trichet

Well, nobody is leaving the eurozone (as expected), but EU is merely ratcheting up the rhetoric one notch seeing full well what happens to countries that continue to endorse unlimited banker bail outs. And it is likely that the war of words will simply continue escalating until such time as the Greek restructuring becomes inevitable, which will likely happen not sooner than a year from now due to Greek bailout liquidity availability and nobody will push the country to do the inevitable until there is even one spare euro in the coffers for fears of what will happen to Deutsche Bank and the European financial domino. So for those wondering what happened at last night's secret finance minister meeting, one one hand, as Dow Jones reports, Greece "asked its euro-zone partners to ease the country's deficit targets as it struggles to comply with strict austerity terms set under last year's financial bailout agreement, a senior euro-zone government official said Saturday. The senior official said Greece acknowledged that it is unlikely to be able to return to the bond market next year and might need to tap the European Financial Stability Facility, the EU's new bailout fund, for funding. A German proposal to possibly extend the maturities of Greek debt falling due in 2012 also was discussed, this person said. Athens has a long-term borrowing requirement of EUR27 billion in 2012. "Greece has asked for the deficit targets to be eased, specifically to push the budget deficit target of 3% of GDP in 2014 forward by at least two years."" Alas, as expected the latest panhandling attempt by Greece was met with abject failure: "No decisions were taken, according to the Commission's statement. Greece's request for easier terms didn't win the assent of Germany and other participants in Friday's meeting, according to a senior European official." In other words, the country is on autopilot, and possibly worse. Per Bloomberg: "European Union officials may require Greece to provide collateral for aid as policy makers struggle to prevent the euro area’s first sovereign debt restructuring, said a person with direct knowledge of the situation."In other words, for the first time since Weimar, a country may soon be forced to collateralize superpriority debt issuance to foreign creditors: an exercise not really seen in international politics since the Weimar war reparations... and at least Germany had its own currency back then. Summary: the EU just told Greece to prepare for Debtor in Possession loan issuance. Basically should Greece default, and it will, the Parthenon will go to Germany, Santorini will go to Luxembourg, Piraeos will likely end up in IMF hands, and the Chinese will own the rest. Welcome to sovereign debt restructurings for the 21st century.

From Dow Jones:

The ECB, the European Commission, France and others remain opposed to any rescheduling of Greek debt, fearing it could spark worsening capital flight from other indebted euro members and damage the Greek banking system.

"There is strong opposition to this by Trichet," one euro-zone official said, adding that the Greek issue will be "extensively discussed" at the May 16-17 meeting of European Union finance ministers.

These meetings precede the June audits of the Greek government's budget to measure the sustainability of the country's debt load, seen as a key hurdle for Greece's recovery plan.

The Eurogroup's Juncker told journalists after the Luxembourg meeting Friday night that it was decided that Greece needs a further adjustment program, but he excluded restructuring the country's sovereign debt.

The president representing the 17 countries using the euro joined other officials in firmly denying press reports that Greece was considering a withdrawal from the euro zone altogether.

But Juncker said Greece needs a further adjustment program, without furnishing details.

"We are not discussing the exit of Greece from the euro area, this is a stupid idea and an avenue we would never take," Juncker said Friday.

Asked if rescheduling Greek debt to extend maturities also had been excluded, Juncker said: "we have excluded any restructuring of Greek debt."

So it would appear that the Greeks will get shafted before they inevitable default, it would appear the carcass of Greece is already being divided up.

[geezer466]

Looks like the controlling Governments and the ECB are about to cut at least some of the pigs some slack....... Wonder if this will catch on..

Ireland is to get an interest rate cut on the emergency loans it has acquired from EU bodies, the BBC has learned. Currently, Ireland pays an average rate of 5.8% on loans agreed with the IMF, fellow Eurozone countries and a special fund set up by the European Commission. It is unclear how much of a cut this will entail, but a 1% cut could be worth up to 400m euro ($572m; £349m).

[Injin]

Looks like the controlling Governments and the ECB are about to cut at least some of the pigs some slack....... Wonder if this will catch on..

Ireland is to get an interest rate cut on the emergency loans it has acquired from EU bodies, the BBC has learned. Currently, Ireland pays an average rate of 5.8% on loans agreed with the IMF, fellow Eurozone countries and a special fund set up by the European Commission. It is unclear how much of a cut this will entail, but a 1% cut could be worth up to 400m euro ($572m; £349m).

[council dweller]

Looks like the controlling Governments and the ECB are about to cut at least some of the pigs some slack....... Wonder if this will catch on..

Ireland is to get an interest rate cut on the emergency loans it has acquired from EU bodies, the BBC has learned. Currently, Ireland pays an average rate of 5.8% on loans agreed with the IMF, fellow Eurozone countries and a special fund set up by the European Commission. It is unclear how much of a cut this will entail, but a 1% cut could be worth up to 400m euro ($572m; £349m).

Surely it would be better for Greece, Ireland and Portugal to all leave together?

The Euro Zone are acting like loan sharks by offering a cut in interest rates when surely they can see that Ireland are going to the wall. All they will do is to drain them completely dry, exactly as loan sharks do to their customers.

[izzy]

Surely it would be better for Greece, Ireland and Portugal to all leave together?

The Euro Zone are acting like loan sharks by offering a cut in interest rates when surely they can see that Ireland are going to the wall. All they will do is to drain them completely dry, exactly as loan sharks do to their customers.

This is all getting very silly. The peripheral EU countries are important markets for German exports. If they are truly sent to the wall then Germany will be killing off its own customers. As for all this Germany will own Santorini nonsense - well, the Greek government can only promise in security assets that it actually owns. Pledging Santorini, for example, is a nonsensical as the UK pledging Kent. Now, airports, ports and utility companies are a different matter altogether.

[okaycuckoo]

Has anyone asked yet who got the tip off to unload on silver earlier in the week, causing almost the entire commodities complex to join in?

They monetised just 2 days before the Euro gives up 600 points against the dollar on Trichet holding off and the Greeks threatening a withdrawal from the Euro in a 'secret' meeting.

If this all blows over by Monday then this was a massive manipulation across the entire commodity and major currency world.

Not many players could do that.

News on US jobs seems grim.

I think this is the real deal.

[council dweller]

News on US jobs seems grim.

I think this is the real deal.

Black Monday?

Whatever.....

[BalancedBear]

From a Greek perspective leaving the € would seem to be win / win. There would be no need to change bank deposits to the new drachma and they could stay in €. Since 90% of Greek bonds are governed by Greek law they could change the law, restructure and denominate the debt in New Drachmas.

The short term cost would be high. However, as long as Greece had enough hard currency $, € etc to get them through a year or two and capital controls it could be managed. The Greece economy is quite small making the probability of success pretty high.

(http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/06/us-greece-euro-exit-idUSTRE7455SA20110506)

After the turmoil of leaving the € which would last 6-12 months you would see a rapid recovery in the Greek economy. With a currency worth 50-90% less tourism would rocket, everyone in Northern Europe would flock to take advantage of the ludicrously cheap holidays on offer. Construction would start booming again. The trade balance would correct as imports became incredibly expensive, exports would boom as they dropped in price.

They could even charge a visitor tax like Turkey do if not in the EU. Greece would have gained a massive advantage over Spain, Portugal etc. With Turkey growing 10% y/y a year there is a clear template across the Aegean for Greece to follow.

This must be what really terrifies Germany, France etc. If Greece leaves and recovers you can expect Portugal to follow. The contagion potential would be huge. Germany, France etc would be the losers from Greece leaving the €. Managing the losses at Northern European banks would be the real challenge, the ECB could help with that though.

For Greece the short term would be difficult, (probably not much more difficult than it is already?) the long term benefits are clearly huge and they have almost nothing to lose.

This kind of claptrap is the same as what is always trotted of here in the UK. However if the Greeks wanted to, they could charge far fewer Euros than they do and drive up tourism, but they don't, as they feel they can charge what they do. The Greeks need to import many things as they don't make much, compared with their consumption just like us in the UK. The German's don't need the Greek market, but they do want a stable Euro, hence why they want to avoid countries leaving.

If Greece left the Euro, they would need to charge even more for what they sell in whatever new weak currency they introduced, as they would need to pay for imports with a currency very few people would want. It would take years for many home grown industries to return.

[Injin]

This kind of claptrap is the same as what is always trotted of here in the UK. However if the Greeks wanted to, they could charge far fewer Euros than they do and drive up tourism, but they don't, as they feel they can charge what they do. The Greeks need to import many things as they don't make much, compared with their consumption just like us in the UK. The German's don't need the Greek market, but they do want a stable Euro, hence why they want to avoid countries leaving.

If Greece left the Euro, they would need to charge even more for what they sell in whatever new weak currency they introduced, as they would need to pay for imports with a currency very few people would want. It would take years for many home grown industries to return.

Erm why would they need to charge more if they wiped out their debts?

Men without mortgages or rents to pay can work for less than those with.