sundance_kid Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) Look at Ireland - too many houses, but that still doesn't help people who can't get jobs. Yes but it's houses that are standing empty and yet are still denied to people who could use them. I really used the land gentry example to draw on the example of the past. When the French revolution was in full swing, it was the rich throughout the UK whom felt threatened from the worry that it could ignite something here. I see the exact same possibility now. Should the youth of Europe start refusing to play ball and not accept the debt obligations of others, that is when things become interesting. It'l take one tinder box state to ignite it of which Europe historically has many. Edited January 2, 2011 by sundance_kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I see the exact same possibility now. Should the youth of Europe start refusing to play ball and not accept the debt obligations of others, that is when things become interesting. They already are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Hard reality is our elites don't have to give young people or anyone more. An apolitcal, weak, un-free thinking generation you can just turn them into worker slaves. Unfortunately for the elites the modern economy is based on the mass consumption of the masses. A few really rich guys and you end up with an economy like Bangladesh. But as long as they are the rich ones I guess they don't care. The WW2 generation had to put up with hardship, and it toughened them. And in the war they had to face reality. The state also had to teach them how to organize and accomplish goals. Its one thing to push around some underemployed non-curious Jeremy Kyle watching, young man.. than to push around a man who has led men in combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200p Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 But as long as they are the rich ones I guess they don't care. Exactly. As long as they are the one eyed man, in the Kingdom of the blind. "Progress", "GDP", "Growth" who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Yes but it's houses that are standing empty and yet are still denied to people who could use them. I really used the land gentry example to draw on the example of the past. When the French revolution was in full swing, it was the rich throughout the UK whom felt threatened from the worry that it could ignite something here. I see the exact same possibility now. Should the youth of Europe start refusing to play ball and not accept the debt obligations of others, that is when things become interesting. It'l take one tinder box state to ignite it of which Europe historically has many. One slight hope is the young have a very powerful option... just quit. Don't try to run on the rat wheel and get nowhere. All those rich and older have promised themselves most of the young people's productive output. But if the young simply don't bother showing up, those rich have a problem. I see a lt of youth who are getting used to living a very modest, but free and leisurely lifestyle of welfare. Many have tried quite a few jobs but actually ended up worse off. Treated like crap for less than welfare. Its like with unions, the most powerful thing they can do is put down the tools en masse. Its one thing to take away most of someone's money.. its alot harder to force people to do productive work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonlywayisdown Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 This girl is a twit. Shes not bright at all. 1 year off from being 30 (middle aged) and shes come to realise that shes been had. Taken for a ride. Worked for free. She had every right to be angry, but she should look at herself first and wonder why the young are being taken advantage of so much - because people like her have been working for them for free! Before anyone says I'm another selfish boomer, I'm just a bit younger than said girl in the article. Still haven't got a house yet but I'm cash rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Hard reality is our elites don't have to give young people or anyone more. An apolitcal, weak, un-free thinking generation you can just turn them into worker slaves. Um, no. It's much worse than that. The hard reality is that the elites _DON'T NEED_ 'worker slaves'. The average unskilled Briton has no value to the EVIL ELITES, not even as a slave. I guess you could throw a few into gladiator matches or something, but no-one is going to be chaining them to a loom in a cloth factory. It's pretty damn hard to hold a strike to demand better pay when you don't have a job and never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 One slight hope is the young have a very powerful option... just quit. Don't try to run on the rat wheel and get nowhere. All those rich and older have promised themselves most of the young people's productive output. But if the young simply don't bother showing up, those rich have a problem. I see a lt of youth who are getting used to living a very modest, but free and leisurely lifestyle of welfare. Many have tried quite a few jobs but actually ended up worse off. Treated like crap for less than welfare. Its like with unions, the most powerful thing they can do is put down the tools en masse. Its one thing to take away most of someone's money.. its alot harder to force people to do productive work. As said a lot of them are. On another forum a lot of them are actually really currently better off on the dole. There are about 6 of them who if petrol hits £1.45 they'll jack in their jobs. A large number of them have taken aussie visas for a year out or are ESLing in Asia rather than play the rigged game here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Um, no. It's much worse than that. The hard reality is that the elites _DON'T NEED_ 'worker slaves'. The average unskilled Briton has no value to the EVIL ELITES, not even as a slave. I guess you could throw a few into gladiator matches or something, but no-one is going to be chaining them to a loom in a cloth factory. It's pretty damn hard to hold a strike to demand better pay when you don't have a job and never will. They keep us around for the next great war which is coming, after all they'll need masses of cannon fodder to rush those Chinese machine guns. However their plan will backfire as selfishness and saying no is an option. Much like if I were asked to rush and enemy machine gun I'd shoot my commanding officer and run away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 "Marx and Engels were wrong," In their predictions but really quite good in a lot of their analysis. Marx wasn't totally wrong in his predictions as such he just failed to see the huge growth that was coming, at the time science fiction hadn't really taken off, the combustion engine and flight was still some years off. As such at the time everyone was more of the opinion that they where at the pinnacle. In today's world that would seem a pretty limited view. Jules Verne had only just started publishing his work. However a lot of what Marx said has proved accurate, we are seeing larger and larger corporations forming. However what Marx failed to comprehend because of the world view at the time was that innovation in other areas could kill off said large corporation meaning the entire process starts over again before the critical time point of social revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 They keep us around for the next great war which is coming, after all they'll need masses of cannon fodder to rush those Chinese machine guns. Again, the average unskilled Briton is not going to be of much use in a modern war. Some of the ones who've spent their lives playing console games could be handy flying UAVs and the like, but cannon fodder is a liability against modern weapons... you spend all that effort training them and getting them to the battlefield and they're dead ten minutes later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indirectapproach Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 "However a lot of what Marx said has proved accurate, we are seeing larger and larger corporations forming." I'm not sure about that. I don't think we've got anything as big now as the British East India Company was in its heyday. I suspect Ford and General Motors are smaller now in market share terms than they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 Again, the average unskilled Briton is not going to be of much use in a modern war. Some of the ones who've spent their lives playing console games could be handy flying UAVs and the like, but cannon fodder is a liability against modern weapons... you spend all that effort training them and getting them to the battlefield and they're dead ten minutes later. Perhaps it will be a gaming war die and lose your internet connection to the game server. Being good as a FPS could be of high value. Considering how easy it is kill people on mass wasting billions training people to die in seconds on the battle field is pointless. You might as well just recruit them and ship them out immediately with no training, other than playing Ghost Recon etc... on a PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) Why haven't they MEW'd to afford the above? Clearly they don't understand how the economy works no wonder everything is so screwed. The young have no basic grasp of modern economics. Who are the ONLY class group to come out of the past decade far wealthier than they were (4x richer we are led to believe) - the Supa-rich. The same ilk that pervert UK laws so they can "legally" avoid paying their taxes and dues back into UK society! The same ilk who own/control our media and pervade stories to pit generation against generation, divide and conquer, whilst they get away with their all-encompassing LOOTING! The same ilk who steal higher and higher amounts of your pensions and investments due to higher CITY Charges, which are passed on as bonuses and dividends to the 'hidden' supa-rich yet again! Edited January 2, 2011 by erranta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Perhaps it will be a gaming war die and lose your internet connection to the game server. Being good as a FPS could be of high value. You could do it like that Star Trek episode: if you get killed in the game you report to the disintegration chamber. Or just electrify the controller so it kills you automatically. Much cheaper than a real war and the winner wouldn't have to worry about having to rebuild all the useful bits of the country they just destroyed in the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Again, the average unskilled Briton is not going to be of much use in a modern war. Some of the ones who've spent their lives playing console games could be handy flying UAVs and the like, but cannon fodder is a liability against modern weapons... you spend all that effort training them and getting them to the battlefield and they're dead ten minutes later. Have a read of this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanchester%27s_laws Essentially bigger armies have better survivalbility because they can inflict more casulties and can self support. Imagine if the Glocester regiment was 200% bigger in Korea instead of being annilated they may well have forced a hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonstock Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 We could move to a 4 day work week could we not? I'm sure that would create a shed load of jobs and it may be the answer we are looking for I came to this conclusion myself some time ago, and am very encouraged to see others on here in agreement. We have to want it as a society though - allowing a few people to "get ahead" by working overtime would nullify everyone else's efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundance_kid Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The hard reality is that the elites _DON'T NEED_ 'worker slaves'. The average unskilled Briton has no value to the EVIL ELITES, not even as a slave. I guess you could throw a few into gladiator matches or something, but no-one is going to be chaining them to a loom in a cloth factory. It's pretty damn hard to hold a strike to demand better pay when you don't have a job and never will. They still require their obedience though. The trick to keep us all busy is via debt servitude but the illusion was that you got something back. The illusions failing though. Take the university bubble. I'll happily argue now that it's dawning on the majority of students the risk of taking on university debt is too great for the minimal reward it's likely to bring. It was only the Government taking on that debt for them that ticked things over. Now the government are unwilling to do this any longer it triggered the demos in London. The very real risk now is these people will call it a day on university and outright refuse to take this debt on. The rich desperately need to load us up with debt, it's the only control they have. What kept us from revolting till now was that we had enough reason to accept it. It's far more dangerous to them to have an idle population. 'Idle hands make the devil's work'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 We could move to a 4 day work week could we not? I'm sure that would create a shed load of jobs and it may be the answer we are looking for 4 day week, and perhaps one job per household. Sadly that would ruin the over indebted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Imagine if the Glocester regiment was 200% bigger in Korea instead of being annilated they may well have forced a hold. That was a WWII-era battle fought with WWI-era tactics on the Korean/Chinese side. It bears no resemblance to a modern war where a large army is just a target-rich environment for the other side. A US Navy WWII-style aircraft carrier with thousands of crew can be sunk by a single Chinese anti-ship IRBM, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguy Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Hard reality is our elites don't have to give young people or anyone more. An apolitcal, weak, un-free thinking generation you can just turn them into worker slaves. Unfortunately for the elites the modern economy is based on the mass consumption of the masses. A few really rich guys and you end up with an economy like Bangladesh. But as long as they are the rich ones I guess they don't care. The WW2 generation had to put up with hardship, and it toughened them. And in the war they had to face reality. The state also had to teach them how to organize and accomplish goals. Its one thing to push around some underemployed non-curious Jeremy Kyle watching, young man.. than to push around a man who has led men in combat. This is true. But, I have faith that the young of today will adjust. Far quicker than their parents I have no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 That was a WWII-era battle fought with WWI-era tactics on the Korean/Chinese side. It bears no resemblance to a modern war where a large army is just a target-rich environment for the other side. A US Navy WWII-style aircraft carrier with thousands of crew can be sunk by a single Chinese anti-ship IRBM, for example. Western gold plated weapons may well be highly effective but when the collaspe comes you reckon we would be able to afford the fuel to power them? Since our carriers are to be powered by natural gas (which comes from Russia). And all the airpower is powered by oil which comes from Russia and the mid east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 It's hard for me to see just how ******ed Britain would have to be for Soviet socialism to look good in comparison. The closest the country got to Soviet socialism was the 70s, and that led to people voting for Thatcher; hardly a glaring example of the British people's love for socialism. I thought it was the baby-boomers that had it all. And most of them were starting families in the 70s. Are you saying that life it's much easier today for an average young person wanting to start a family, to have a decent place to live, to work towards a good pension, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scepticus Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Of course the young are getting pissed off. Anyone who thinks deflationary depression is the answer to provide these young people a future needs their head fixing. What is needed is real wage growth, and that won't come from stupid austerity policies, not now, and not after a 'medicinal' period of debt deflation. Real wage growth can only arrive in the form of negative real interest rates, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie The Tramp Returns Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 It can easily swing the other way, look forward, make your own path and plans. How true, look at boy Dave a Generation X, father has just left him 300 grand, he can buy a nice 3 bed semi for cash with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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