Lithuanian Squatters Taking Over Your House

[Badger]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314526/Knife-wielding-Lithuanian-squatters-residents-out.html

[Charlie Don't Surf]

How did I know this was going to be a Daily Mail article?!

[Harry Monk]

Previously reported in the local paper...

http://www.bdpost.co.uk/content/barkinganddagenham/post/news/story.aspx?brand=BDPOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsbdp&itemid=WeED23%20Sep%202010%2012:48:45:480

A GANG of Lithuanian squatters are moving into people's homes and changing the locks while they are out, it has been claimed.

George Pope, 72, of Kier Hardie Way, Barking, took his dogs for a walk and returned to find a family had moved into his house and his possessions outside in bags last Thursday.

Must be awful, especially at 72. The worst thing that ever happened was the fall of the Iron Curtain, in every way imaginable.

[Orsino]

Breathe; it's the Daily Mail.

This is not about 'Lithuanian squatters'. They are as much victims in this as the property owners. This is about people posing illegally as estate agents and property owners. This happened to my previous landlord whose family have owned and let properties for generations. He let the house to a Canadian/Indian guy. The Canadian promptly didn't pay the rent whilst subletting the property to four couples. These couples had seen the property advertised on Gumtree. They had paid deposits and paid their rents on time to the fake Canadian landlord. The tenants thought they were acting entirely legally. In fact they had been duped and the first they knew about it was when the real landlord turned up on the doorstep wondering where the rent was from the Canadian guy. Unfortunately the duped 'tenants' have no legal rights, either as tenants or squatters, and apart from a short legal delay they are out-of-pocket and homeless. The Canadian conman disappeared with the cash.

The Daily Mail focuses on 'Lithuanian squatters' because it's a racist rag read by racist idiots.

[Kurt Barlow]

Previously reported in the local paper...

http://www.bdpost.co.uk/content/barkinganddagenham/post/news/story.aspx?brand=BDPOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsbdp&itemid=WeED23%20Sep%202010%2012:48:45:480

Must be awful, especially at 72. The worst thing that ever happened was the fall of the Iron Curtain, in every way imaginable.

Agreed. This is only the tip of the iceberg. My cousin told me about a friend whose aunt experienced this. Fortunately the Aunt had a rather large extended family who removed said squatters inside 20 minutes. Old Bill turned up and told the squatters it was a civil matter

[Harry Monk]

The Daily Mail focuses on 'Lithuanian squatters' because it's a racist rag read by racist idiots.

Although I'm no fan of the Daily Wail, I disagree. They are focusing on it because it is of concern that a person can take his dogs for a walk and come back to find he no longer has a home. My belief is that this practice is going to spread and very quickly as eastern Bloc migrants feel the recession.

I spent four years in the former Soviet Union, including Lithuania and ex Soviets still have the centuries only philosophy of "He who does not steal from others, steals from his family".

Just keep your fingers crossed it doesn't happen to you.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

If they use force to enter it is a criminal offence and a police matter. They can only claim squatters' rights if they did not use force. The old bill and the victims need to read up on their rights and sort this out

[Orsino]

Although I'm no fan of the Daily Wail, I disagree. They are focusing on it because it is of concern that a person can take his dogs for a walk and come back to find he no longer has a home. My belief is that this practice is going to spread and very quickly as eastern Bloc migrants feel the recession.

I spent four years in the former Soviet Union, including Lithuania and ex Soviets still have the centuries only philosophy of "He who does not steal from others, steals from his family".

Just keep your fingers crossed it doesn't happen to you.

None of the cases in the Daily Mail article involved a property owner taking their dog for a walk and finding their home occupied when they got back.

The similar case I cited above involved mainly Australian and South African tenants and a Canadian con man. This is not an 'Eastern Bloc' thing.

Your suggestion that all 'ex Soviets' have a philosophy of theft is totally incorrect.

The Daily Mail is not highlighting a legitimate concern; it is distorting the facts to suit its own racist agenda.

As the Daily Mail article says:

"The Metropolitan Police said it was seeking suspects who are believed to have posed as an estate agents to fraudulently sublet properties." These are the real crooks the police are after yet it's a tiny postscript in the article.

[Bubble&Squeak]

Although I'm no fan of the Daily Wail, I disagree. They are focusing on it because it is of concern that a person can take his dogs for a walk and come back to find he no longer has a home. My belief is that this practice is going to spread and very quickly as eastern Bloc migrants feel the recession.

Erm... didn't read the article or the post very well did you. The migrants were also the victims... easily duped probably because of their lack of experience here, less than fluent English and attracted by lower rent/tenancy history requirements perhaps?

The only way this problem relates to migrants is that there are more people looking for the same pool of rental property and they are probably more easily duped.

Would be interesting to see if the fake landlord... the real criminal in this sad tale fits in to your "criminal profile" maybe he/she has close set eyes and a heavy brow...

I spent four years in the former Soviet Union, including Lithuania and ex Soviets still have the centuries only philosophy of "He who does not steal from others, steals from his family".

Just keep your fingers crossed it doesn't happen to you.

Got a link for that... not a Russian/Soviet specific saying I am familiar with?

[PopGun]

Although I'm no fan of the Daily Wail, I disagree. They are focusing on it because it is of concern that a person can take his dogs for a walk and come back to find he no longer has a home. My belief is that this practice is going to spread and very quickly as eastern Bloc migrants feel the recession.

I spent four years in the former Soviet Union, including Lithuania and ex Soviets still have the centuries only philosophy of "He who does not steal from others, steals from his family".

Just keep your fingers crossed it doesn't happen to you.

Property is theft comrade!!

[Harry Monk]

None of the cases in the Daily Mail article involved a property owner taking their dog for a walk and finding their home occupied when they got back.

Good job I gave you a link to another report than.

[Orsino]

Good job I gave you a link to another report than.

It's the same Mr Pope in both articles. In the local paper published on the 23rd it says he took his dogs for a walk. In the Mail article, which includes quotes, published on the 24th it says:

Mr Pope went back to his house on Monday morning to find all his belongings had been thrown out. "I had been out for just two-and-a-half days. Someone must have been watching me,’ he said. ‘The rear door had been levered out with screwdrivers – that’s how they got in."

He didn't take his dog for a walk for two and a half days. This is just another example of a paper fabricating or misrepresenting facts in order to stir up unjustified hatred of European Union workers from Eastern Europe. I wonder how many BNP votes the Barking and Dagenham Post can take credit for?

[Blod]

Sorry I thought that if you bought stolen services or goods YOU had to return them to the original owner.

And this looks like this “agent” has been busy again second similar story.

Does look like the whole thing is a bit dubious.

[Harry Monk]

Whether he was away for two hours or two days, and regardless of who paid what rent to whom, I am sure that you would agree that the house owner has first claim on the property and the Law should reflect this.

What I believe will become apparent to more and more people as this practice spreads is that it is a scam perpetuated at least in part by those in occupation.

[Pole]

If they use force to enter it is a criminal offence and a police matter. They can only claim squatters' rights if they did not use force. The old bill and the victims need to read up on their rights and sort this out

+1

It's got nothing to do with immigrants. It's the silly common law.

The squatters' rights law is unheard of outside the US and the UK. This law is a joke and everyone knows it.

BTW, the Daily Mail is a very British paper - lots of moaning&complaining and no real action. It always concentrates on problems instead of solutions.

[shindigger]

It's the same Mr Pope in both articles. In the local paper published on the 23rd it says he took his dogs for a walk. In the Mail article, which includes quotes, published on the 24th it says:

Mr Pope went back to his house on Monday morning to find all his belongings had been thrown out. "I had been out for just two-and-a-half days. Someone must have been watching me,’ he said. ‘The rear door had been levered out with screwdrivers – that’s how they got in."

He didn't take his dog for a walk for two and a half days. This is just another example of a paper fabricating or misrepresenting facts in order to stir up unjustified hatred of European Union workers from Eastern Europe. I wonder how many BNP votes the Barking and Dagenham Post can take credit for?

So if an agent rents me a house and tells me i have to kick the door in after ive paid the deposit and rent in advance, i don/t think to ask any questions?

Righto.

Im sure the truth is in there somewhere.

Would you believe the Mail story of it was word for word in the Guardian?

[Harry Monk]

So if an agent rents me a house and tells me i have to kick the door in after ive paid the deposit and rent in advance, i don/t think to ask any questions?

And move the last tenant's belongings out,

Just watch this spread...

[Austin Allegro]

+1

It's got nothing to do with immigrants. It's the silly common law.

The squatters' rights law is unheard of outside the US and the UK. This law is a joke and everyone knows it.

BTW, the Daily Mail is a very British paper - lots of moaning&complaining and no real action. It always concentrates on problems instead of solutions.

Can someone explain the common law on squatting to me. Say I pick the lock of my neighbour's house while he is out (showing no signs of forced entry) relax on the sofa and when he gets back says 'I claim squatter's rights'. What would the police do? Never mind about burly friends of the owner etc - what is the strict legal position?

[shindigger]

And move the last tenant's belongings out,

Just watch this spread...

I may bury a shooter in the garden.......*

*Not really occifers.

[Harry Monk]

Can someone explain the common law on squatting to me. Say I pick the lock of my neighbour's house while he is out (showing no signs of forced entry) relax on the sofa and when he gets back says 'I claim squatter's rights'. What would the police do? Never mind about burly friends of the owner etc - what is the strict legal position?

AFAIAA, this used to be legal but became illegal at some point in the 1980s under the same law that was used to stop the Stonehenge Festival.

[goldbug9999]

Your suggestion that all 'ex Soviets' have a philosophy of theft is totally incorrect.

Indeed you would have to add corruption, bribery, fraud, domestic violence, substance abuse, laziness, lack of respect for the environment to make it even remotely correct.

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

Can someone explain the common law on squatting to me. Say I pick the lock of my neighbour's house while he is out (showing no signs of forced entry) relax on the sofa and when he gets back says 'I claim squatter's rights'. What would the police do? Never mind about burly friends of the owner etc - what is the strict legal position?

You would need to show the property was unoccupied and not being used or about to be used, so you couldn't do it with a property with furniture in or a property that was having or had recently had building or decorating work done to prepare it for occupation.

If a reasonable person would believe the property was in use or about to be used, you can't squat in it. If it's clear the property is vacant and/or disused then you can.

Empty rental properties are a bit of a grey area... if the property is being checked regularly and actively marketed then you would not be able to squat. If it's being left vacant and unattedned for a year or is a "buy-to-sit" investment property then you would.

The squatting laws are actually a good idea, albeit not that well implemented. The purpose is to help deal with the possibility that we could have millions of empty properties and millions of homeless people. Untilmately the squatting rules wouldn't be needed if we has a sensible LVT based tax system.

[Orsino]

The Daily Mail article does not say the illegal occupiers kicked in the door. Nor does it say that they threw out the homeowner's possessions or that they changed the locks themselves. These are things you have assumed or made up in the belief that the people illegally occupying these properties are criminals rather than victims of fraud (Daily Mail: Mission Accomplished). You justify this belief on that basis that people from ex-Soviet countries have a philosophy of thieving - a patently racist view as well as an inaccurate one. The police are seeking people who posed as an estate agents to fraudulently sublet properties. The police clearly believe the illegal occupiers are victims of fraud just as much as the real property owners are.

[Maursh]

Getting a court order to evict squatters should take a matter of days where children (such as the couple with the 14yo son) or vulnerable (such as a 72 yo) are concerned.

What's also curious is that the police would describe this as a "civil" matter if the "squatters" have actually been conned into handing over a deposit and rent to someone who had no right to let out the property - that sounds pretty criminal to me!

[Saver]

None of the cases in the Daily Mail article involved a property owner taking their dog for a walk and finding their home occupied when they got back.

The similar case I cited above involved mainly Australian and South African tenants and a Canadian con man. This is not an 'Eastern Bloc' thing.

Your suggestion that all 'ex Soviets' have a philosophy of theft is totally incorrect.

The Daily Mail is not highlighting a legitimate concern; it is distorting the facts to suit its own racist agenda.

As the Daily Mail article says:

"The Metropolitan Police said it was seeking suspects who are believed to have posed as an estate agents to fraudulently sublet properties." These are the real crooks the police are after yet it's a tiny postscript in the article.

it said the "tenants" threaten the real owners with knives.

Also are these people thick? Surely as soon as they moved in they should have realised someone lived there already and done the right thing - move out. Not tool themselves up and threaten the owners....