250 People For One Job

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

Reading certain posters on this thread I get the impression they have top positions earning very high salaries but post on this Forum as hard done by poorly paid FTBs desperately trying to buy their first home.

This Forum has clearly lost its purpose.

[phead]

What sort of unfilled positions?

Everything from basic call desk people right up to £80K+ programme directors, all over the country, mainly technical.... well apart from the management types

[Big Orange]

Of course, people are all the same no matter what age. And a junior doctor is just as good as one with 20 years experience, and a 50 year labourer just as strong as a 19 year old.

The one of the reasons the economy went south is because the Western banks prefered to hire young people disproportionately who had no real world and life experience, thus were more malleable by the employers to do their bidding in fueling the big bubble, since the middle aged workers would more likely sense that their bank and the economy was heading in the wrong direction.

If you dont want to employ someone who is old, or disabled or whatever. Then whatever laws invented will not stop you. This isnt the public sector.

Yes, let's get rid of the disabled toilets, elevators, and wheel chair ramps in your office while you're at it.

[miko]

Reading certain posters on this thread I get the impression they have top positions earning very high salaries but post on this Forum as hard done by poorly paid FTBs desperately trying to buy their first home.

This Forum has clearly lost its purpose.

LoL anyone in particular would you like to name ?

[miko]

The one of the reasons the economy went south is because the Western banks prefered to hire young people disproportionately who had no real world and life experience, thus were more malleable by the employers to do their bidding in fueling the big bubble, since the middle aged workers would more likely sense that their bank and the economy was heading in the wrong direction.

Yes so right . You can never teach or buy experience it can only come with time. Some companies ought to wake up to that fact.

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

LoL anyone in particular would you like to name ?

I prefer to whisper behind the bike shed.

[catmandu]

My goodness! This thread really seems to have taken a turn for the worse How did that happen?

[Johnny Storm]

Yes, let's get rid of the disabled toilets, elevators, and wheel chair ramps in your office while you're at it.

Never ever worked in an office with those, so dont need to get rid of something they never had.

The thing about discrimination, it is based on peoples factual experience. If someone has had bad experience employing 20 something women as they always get pregnant and have loads of time off, should they be allowed to use this experience to decide who they are going to employ next?

What if someone decided they wont employ young lads because they are always hungover and ringing in sick after nights out. Maybe someone else has found older people are stuck in their ways and slow to learn new things.

These things can work both ways. We dont live in a world where everyone is the same or equal, thank goodness.

It is human nature to use your experiences to form decisions in the future. You cannot legislate against this, and where they have tried (public sector) you get people employed who are useless but fulfil a criteria of employing x percent of disabled, ethnic etc etc Is that what you want? To get a job not because you are the best person, but because you tick some box?

Edited August 27, 2010 by Johnny Storm

[Britney's Piers]

Yeah I was pretty disgusted by that post as well. Why do people always have to treat jobseekers like shit?

Thank you Labour for the Age Discrimination legislation by the way (that comment ought to put a few noses out of joint).

And people wonder why there's a huge problem with over 50s and on invalidity benefit even though they could work.

"Make them work, just as long I don't have to be the one to employ them".

Edited August 27, 2010 by Britney's Piers

[SNACR]

The one of the reasons the economy went south is because the Western banks prefered to hire young people disproportionately who had no real world and life experience, thus were more malleable by the employers to do their bidding in fueling the big bubble, since the middle aged workers would more likely sense that their bank and the economy was heading in the wrong direction.

I'm not sure this has any truth in it at all - most of the protagonists were in their fifties, just two examples of many:

Fred Goodwin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Goodwin

Peter Cummings

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/markets/article.html?in_article_id=476852&in_page_id=3

Banks have always mostly promoted from within and a lot of today's senior bankers started out in branches behind the counter. They parachuted young whippersnapper Andy Hornby into HBOS but the damage was done and he'd have been unable to get Peter Cummings, and his mates' rates deals, reined in even if he'd wanted to.

[tricksters]

And what, precisely, has age got to do with your selection process? Are you suggesting you discriminate on the grounds of age?

I'm sure you know that legislation to prevent this was put on the statute book in 2006 andleaves you exposed to legal action.

And who are you? The Mafia? If I am an employer, I want to take on who the Hell I damn well want. Mind your own business.

Just because something is "legislated" doesn't prove a point.

[Big Orange]

I'm not sure this has any truth in it at all - most of the protagonists were in their fifties, just two examples of many:

Fred Goodwin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Goodwin

Peter Cummings

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/markets/article.html?in_article_id=476852&in_page_id=3

They're the employers trying to cut as many corners as possible and surrounding themselves with twenty/thirty something patsies who won't answer back, not the employees.

[Heading South]

To get a job not because you are the best person, but because you tick some box?

Of course you should select the best person to do the job. However from your earlier post it appears you are prepared to reject candidates just because they tick the box that says "not young". Did the over 50s candidates have the experience and skills to do the accountant job, or had you already made up your mind from the outset that the because of their age their face did not fit? And by your own admission you chose the 18 year old for the receptionist post because she was "cute", a characteristic not normally attached to someone in their 40s (or a male for the matter).

When I've recruited people in the real world, I've assessed them on their skills, experience, aptitude for the job and attitude - never on age (or sex or ethnicity or whatever). Indeed, many of the older recruits have brought hard-learnt experiences and wisdom which have helped us deliver some really tough programmes on time and on budget. And I have not found older workers to be any more or less flexible or adaptable than their younger colleagues.

As well as exposing yourself to potential legal action, you really are missing out on a trick if you narrow your selection criteria to those of a certain age range.

[Big Orange]

Never ever worked in an office with those, so dont need to get rid of something they never had.

The thing about discrimination, it is based on peoples factual experience. If someone has had bad experience employing 20 something women as they always get pregnant and have loads of time off, should they be allowed to use this experience to decide who they are going to employ next?

What if someone decided they wont employ young lads because they are always hungover and ringing in sick after nights out. Maybe someone else has found older people are stuck in their ways and slow to learn new things.

You can't make sweeping generalisations of entire demographic groups because of some negative personal experience, since not everyone is alike and while some people are bad at some things, they're good at others, and not so easily stereotyped. For a start I'm in my twenties, but don't drink heavily or go clubbing. And how dare women for having babies and perpetrating the species! :angry:

It is human nature to use your experiences to form decisions in the future. You cannot legislate against this, and where they have tried (public sector) you get people employed who are useless but fulfil a criteria of employing x percent of disabled, ethnic etc etc Is that what you want? To get a job not because you are the best person, but because you tick some box?

Now you're just sound like a rat ******* who dislikes ethnic and disabled people. Thank God I haven't got you for a boss.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Big Orange

[SNACR]

You can't make sweeping generalisations of entire demographic groups because of some negative personal experience, since not everyone is alike and while some people are bad at some things, they're good at others, and not so easily stereotyped. For a start I'm in my twenties, but don't drink heavily or go clubbing. And how dare women for having babies and perpetrating the species! :angry:

God damn perpetrating women. I might've known it were them what done it.

[catmandu]

Just to wind up this topic nicely, though it took several months, ended up getting 2 job offers. Most jobs it seems were getting around 50-60 applications so the above job was a bit unusual (probably since it wasn't that great a job, lots of untrained people wrongly felt they had a chance).

Glad I got something given the news on Lloyds etc. The market could be quite tough for the next couple of years I suspect.

[newbonic]

Just to wind up this topic nicely, though it took several months, ended up getting 2 job offers. Most jobs it seems were getting around 50-60 applications so the above job was a bit unusual (probably since it wasn't that great a job, lots of untrained people wrongly felt they had a chance).

Glad I got something given the news on Lloyds etc. The market could be quite tough for the next couple of years I suspect.

Well done mate!

On the more generall point, a lot of job applications are put in because the applicant has to in order to continue getting job seekers allowance and such like. It's one of the hoops the DWP make people jump through for their £64 pw.

[Si1]

trouble with IT, and finance, even tho they pay well, they're sooooo boring

[TheLine]

Had an interview for a skilled IT job a few days back. Apparently 250 people applied, 10 got a first interview (including me).

Wonder what others' experiences are. If this carries on for too long I'm leaving this country before Christmas :angry:

Out of interest, what is your area of specialism?

[catmandu]

trouble with IT, and finance, even tho they pay well, they're sooooo boring

Yup, it's the nature of the beast.

Probably better than making cardboard boxes on a production line though. Though it's probably a close run thing.

[goldilocksporridge]

Yep its not just getting a job that is the problem.

Employers expectations are often sky high - they offer a pretty lowish salary of lets say 30K salary with a job descrip. and you often find that in order to stay working there you have to contribute so much more than doing your job to your job description.

Employers often throw people into a mess of a situation - where they do not have the resources, management or expertise to do the job properly - like a new project, an employer will promise clients everything, but behind the scenes there its chaos.

Employers often use terminology like "be proactive" or "use initiative" - which often is the words used by management who don't want to manage anything.

[wonderpup]

I love those ads that begin with questions like;

'Do you have a genuine passion and commitment to the selling of dog food? Does the prospect of spending your days selling dog food fill you with excitement and the will to succeed?'

Now- what would happen if someone went for an interview and actually demonstrated these precise qualities?

'Ok Mr smith- what attracted you to this role?'

'It's dog food- I just love it- I mean I really love it- the smell,the texture, the way it sticks to the inside of the can when you spoon it out- dogfood is my life, my passion- I can't get enough of the stuff. It's so exciting!'

So what's the interviewer thinking- yep, he's thinking the guys a nut case and there's no way he's going to hire him.

So what's all that shite doing in the advert for the job?

[Limpet]

God damn perpetrating women. I might've known it were them what done it.

[Democorruptcy]

What about a jobs section on HPC?

Employers post their job, applicants apply by PM.

People looking for work post some anonymous details inc skills, location etc., employers contact them via PM

Or is this too anti-HPC? If more people find work there will be less repos?

[Si1]

Employers often use terminology like "be proactive" or "use initiative" - which often is the words used by management who don't want to manage anything.

proactive = work late so the boss doesn't have to