Falklands Oil Tensions Stirring...

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

I don't get it?

They invade, we put one of our subs armed with tomahawks off the Argie coast and spend a few days turning their capital city and infrastructure into rubble until they surrender and pay our costs.

This fighting in muddy ditches thing is so 1920.

[indirectapproach]

"Those islands are indefensible ....."

That would suggest we can take 'em back whenever we want.

On that basis I do not see why we should belittle ourselves by kowtowing to Argie.

Incidentally, our defeat of their military lead to the end of their junta, with its dirty killings and the establishment of something akin to democracy.

They all owe us a pint.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

Would be the same with the Eurofighters. Complete duck shoot.

The targets would not know they were under attack until they were neutralised.

This assumes the Eurofighters can operate from a secure base obviously.

Would be interesting to see a handful of high tech birds erasing an entire air force.

Not much fun for the opposition's pilots & families though.

The analysis interests me.

The wikipedia article on the F22 indicates some significant superiority in exercises, with 12 planes shooting down over a 100 simulated enemies with no losses. I assume these are relatively modern aircraft as well (F16/F15 equivalent) and not the more dated Argentine planes.

Comparable data for the eurofighter is hard to obtain. I think generally most military analysts would say that the F22 is superior to the eurofighter, but as yet there is no significant data to support this one way or another. Maybe the lack of data is more telling than anything else ....

[geezer466]

I spent four years from 82 to 86 down there...you would not believe how close we came to losing......it was a matter of hours...

Depends on how you define losing?

Yes ammo particularly arty stocks were almost out by the time the ceasefire came but even if they had expired we were boots on ground and we still had air superiority from the Carriers is all that we needed to do. Anything else being claimed is in a vested interest of making the victory something it really wasn't.

Dig in and consolidate and re-commence when re-sup had been achieved.

The biggest threat to the invasion never took place on the islands it was when the Argie air force sank the Atlantic Conveyor. It had our entire compliment of support heli on board plus lots of other stores including ammo. The logistical management of the British army though meant then as it does today that not all the eggs were put in one basket. As for us grunts we had to bloody walk everywhere (right across the bloody island as it turned out, and a new word for it was coined. Only one Chinook arrived in theatre the rest were on the conveyor, and that was prioritized (rightly so) for casevac.

Still all the Argy POW's after the ceasefire had to sleep in the open as all their tentage was on also on board the conveyor

I was also shall we say in attendance and was at GG (in support). Some of the Argie conscripts fought very bravely they were badly let down by their commanders at senior levels. Mind you some of ours were not much better one was even rewarded with a VC.

To this day a very lively debate goes on in Military circles as to whether the CO let down his Battalion by engaging an enemy strong point with no more than a Sterling sub machine gun.

You would need to be military minded to understand it but in a nutshell it is a commanders job to oversee, plan and direct a battle not to get personally involved at the sharp end for the greater glory.

As for the poster that said British Airborne are not nice persons behave!!! I would trust my teenage daughters with anyone from the Regiment. (So long as I could keep an eye on them )

Incidentally when we got back to Blighty part of my job was to manifest all the kit that was aboard the Conveyor. It had been loaded in a hurry prior to departure and whilst it had all the stuff on board that was needed in the course of the conflict, because of the urgency no proper records were kept as to which units had dropped stores for loading.

Subsequently all units were instructed to list all the stores on board so there mobilisation stores could be replenished from central ordnance depots.

If the ship actually had on board all that was claimed it would have sunk under the weight at the quayside...

Some units even tried to claim they had put mini buses and staff cars on board!!

[geezer466]

plenty to do..fishing was some of the best in the world...had a trials bike...took squash lessons and became quite good at it...my m8 was a shanook pilot so plenty of jollies and 12hr working days..had a local girlfreind,,,,life was good..

If that avatar is your real pic then the girlfriend was a sheep!!!!!!

Which night was it your turn with the wellies?

[deadman]

Nobody has mentioned the significant ground forces we have there who train daily in readiness for an attempted invasion. We didn't have that last time either.

If Argentina couldn't overthrow us in 82 then they most certainly couldn't now. I can't believe people are even debating it.

[headrow]

snip

I enjoyed reading that.Thank you.

[ccc]

plenty to do..fishing was some of the best in the world...had a trials bike...took squash lessons and became quite good at it...my m8 was a shanook pilot so plenty of jollies and 12hr working days..had a local girlfreind,,,,life was good..

Sounds allright actually.

[geezer466]

The analysis interests me.

The wikipedia article on the F22 indicates some significant superiority in exercises, with 12 planes shooting down over a 100 simulated enemies with no losses. I assume these are relatively modern aircraft as well (F16/F15 equivalent) and not the more dated Argentine planes.

Comparable data for the eurofighter is hard to obtain. I think generally most military analysts would say that the F22 is superior to the eurofighter, but as yet there is no significant data to support this one way or another. Maybe the lack of data is more telling than anything else ....

The real test of any weapons platform is in the heat of battle..

The old adage no plan survives contact with the enemy is as true today as it ever was. Simulations are ok up to a point but they are not the real stress test.

As far as I am aware no Typhoon has been used as yet in a real combat situation. It is an air to air platform and as the Taliban air force consists of firing RPG's from a very high hill we don't have any theatres to test it within.

That explains the lack of data.

[deadman]

Another thing to remember is that we could operate an entire squadron of Typhoons down there if we really wanted to. We could also send some Harriers or Tornado GR's down there for multi-attack ability, but we don't. Why is that? Is it because we are complacent and incompetent? Or is it that we know full well that what we have down there at the moment is more than able to quash any potential threat?

Don't get me wrong, I love all the debate on here. But a lot of the military tacticians on here are misguided in their assumptions and analysis.

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Wasn't the airport and runway improved after the falklands War?

Transport planes and even passenger jets fly there now so I don't think a 'Task Force' woud be needed, just a squadron of Tornadoes based there. Of course, if they attacked on a bank holiday...

But do the Argies know the Tornadoes will be away doing air displays ?

[sharpe]

We really should have stolen their oil in the latter half of the 1980s, and left a bit more under the north sea. I can't see how we can get away with it now

Given that the Falklands is British we are not stealing anything from anyone.

The Falklands war was an act of aggression by a fascist regime against the people of the Falklands. They should have the only say that counts about what country they belong to.

It was never clear to me why no other countries helped the UK in that conflict. Especially given the UK was in NATO.

[ntb]

It was never clear to me why no other countries helped the UK in that conflict. Especially given the UK was in NATO.

They did. The US offered us a full sized carrier and sold us the latest sidewinders for instance. The French stopped the Argies acquiring any more Exocets. Technically, Argentinia was a US 'ally' so it couldn't be too explicit.

[funkydung]

Wasn't the airport and runway improved after the falklands War?

Transport planes and even passenger jets fly there now so I don't think a 'Task Force' woud be needed, just a squadron of Tornadoes based there. Of course, if they attacked on a bank holiday...

Fear ye not...as of September 2009 a Typhoon squadron took over. Although it arrived about a decade late it is still one of the most formidable aircraft around. That said, you can't win a war in the air alone, and our bigger concern should be about the lack of troops we would have available to go and hold ground if the Argies managed to get onto the islands. Thankfully though the Argies ended conscription in the 90s so they too may struggle to form an army of any strength, and I suspect their finances are still pretty bad, so equipping any force is also likely to be a problem.

[Number79]

Given that the Falklands is British we are not stealing anything from anyone.

The Falklands war was an act of aggression by a fascist regime against the people of the Falklands. They should have the only say that counts about what country they belong to.

It was never clear to me why no other countries helped the UK in that conflict. Especially given the UK was in NATO.

Wow.

Does your daddy know that you are using his computer?

Edited February 12, 2010 by richyc

[tomwatkins]

Wow.

Does your daddy know that you are using his computer?

OK his English aint up to much but I agree with his sentiment. Don't you?

[Krackersdave]

Are you sure it's not a detachment, and not a squadron?

There is a very big difference in numbers, as I'm sure you know!

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/09/22/332609/raf-typhoons-arrive-for-falkland-islands-mission.html

Indeed - and these are Tranche 1 EuroShit Typhoons - no ground attack capability - so how exactly are they going to stop the Argies landing troops?

No - what we need to do is build those two bloody carriers that are on order toot-sweet and kit them out with F/A18's.

In the meantime send down the SSN's to patrol the islands, that alone would have stopped the buggers the last time.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Krackersdave

[funkydung]

Are you sure it's not a detachment, and not a squadron?

There is a very big difference in numbers, as I'm sure you know!

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/09/22/332609/raf-typhoons-arrive-for-falkland-islands-mission.html

Quite right...I stand corrected. I'm not sure we could send any more if required though!

[oracle]

I agree entirely, been too long since their last spanking.

now,now.

that's not very european of you.

FWIW,even despite all the cultural debasements and sneaky subversion that has been employed against us,I don't think our enemies have ever experienced a proper anglo-american ass-kickin.

we've always been fairly benevolent and tried to keep civilian casualies to a minimum,and help rebuild countries that were trying to recover after the course of war.What if we bent our minds to complete extermination of our enemies?

no queensbury rules this time....you play russian roulette and the bullet comes out of the chamber,you lose....end of story.

what do you think would happen if we turned really nasty and ripped the place up?

I don't think people have really experienced our full wrath.

if the forces governing us turn it into an "us and them" situation,I guarantee we will not take prisoners.It will not be pretty.

Edited February 12, 2010 by oracle

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

The entire Argentine air force is no match for 4 eurofighters and a tanker, plus the advanced radar stations that are no doubt in place.

Not required just get a dozen Harriers out of mothballs to deal with the AAF.

[geezer466]

Indeed - and these are Tranche 1 EuroShit Typhoons - no ground attack capability - so how exactly are they going to stop the Argies landing troops?

No - what we need to do is build those two bloody carriers that are on order toot-sweet and kit them out with F/A18's.

In the meantime send down the SSN's to patrol the islands, that alone would have stopped the buggers the last time.

The immediate threat and one that can not be planned for comes from the air.... Hence the token (albeit a big token) of air to air defence capability.

If the Argies were to launch an unprovoked air attack with the kit they currently have its no contest they would be shot out of the sky.

If they wished to land troops perhaps in a similar way to 1992, then a sea borne invasion is on the cards.

GCHQ and other Intel assets are then on the case. We would know, no doubt about it. Either some RN assets with air to ground capability are deployed or we despatch a Squadron of Tornado GR3 PDQ. Tanker assets are already on the ground to assist the South Atlantic leg. Ordnance (the stuff that goes bang) needed will already be in situ...........

Push come to shove we could have 3 or 4 Squadrons down South before the Argies even put to Sea,,,

Its all about planning for the worst case scenario given the lowest ongoing cost.. As the politicians leave this sort of stuff to the military sleep well in your beds tonight,

They are not coming any-time soon, and even if they do McFeckwit hasn't planned the response. Our military already have.

This would be a defensive operation, very different from invading a Sovereign Country.

[South Lorne]

OK his English aint up to much but I agree with his sentiment. Don't you?

...agreed ...don't think the botched comedian does....

[Frank Hovis]

I'll throw in an interesting bit on the General Belgrano mentioned on QI last night:

She was stationed on the West Coast and was at Pearl Harbor on the 7th December 1941, the day that saw the surprise attack by Japanese forces on the naval port. USS PHOENIX survived the attack and went out looking for the aircraft carriers that hosted the Japanese warplanes.

During World War 2 she saw action on many occasions and earned herself 9 battle stars.

When war ended, like many vessels, she was no longer required and was placed in reserve at Philadelphia on 28th February 1946. She was decommissioned on 3rd July that year and remained laid up at Philadelphia when she was sold to the Argentine Navy on 9th April 1951.

When commissioned into the Argentine Navy on the 17th October 1951 she was christened DIECISIETE DE OCTUBRE. In 1956 her name was changed to GENERAL BELGRANO and until 1982 she served with the Argentine Navy. Another Brooklyn-class vessel was also sold along with her to Argentina, the USS BOISE, which became the NUEVE DE JULIO and she remained until 1978 when she was sold to Japan for scrap.

It is ironic that one of the last United States WW2 cruisers, which had witnessed the Pearl Harbour attack and survived, which fought so many battles alongside other units from Allied fleets would, 37 years after the end of the war, be lost in a scenario few would have thought likely, at the hands of a British submarine in defence of a British overseas territory.

http://www.shippingtimes.co.uk/item530_general_belgrano.htm

[Frank Hovis]

Those islands are indefensible and not worth the bother. The best solution is to negotiate some kind of special status with the Argies so the Islanders get to retain autonomy and continue with their British culture. Its not as if they have much contact with the mainland anyhow so should be no problems.

The rush to justify appeasement begins.

[deadman]

Those islands are indefensible and not worth the bother. The best solution is to negotiate some kind of special status with the Argies so the Islanders get to retain autonomy and continue with their British culture. Its not as if they have much contact with the mainland anyhow so should be no problems.

You haven't been there have you!?

I can imagine the look on any islanders face were you to suggest that face to face.

I'm tempted to forward this link to a good friend of mine who lives out there. He'd laugh. I'm laughing too.