Lots Of It Jobs In The City

[whiterabbit]

500 a day isn't that much if you have to pay to live in London plus the other income/self employment taxes plus no benefits or security...............

[Ah-so]

500 a day isn't that much if you have to pay to live in London plus the other income/self employment taxes plus no benefits or security...............

Contracting is a lifestyle choice, but it does really need to pay near double the equivalent permanent position to make sense compared to a job with good benefits.

[ken_ichikawa]

Contracting is a lifestyle choice, but it does really need to pay near double the equivalent permanent position to make sense compared to a job with good benefits.

Benefits? , do those things actually exist? , I have noticed a massive decline in P11ds through my accounting career.

[porca misèria]

Typing 'Java' into Jobserve reveals page after page of city/finance based contracts, all paying astronomical rates - e.g. £500-£700 PER DAY is not uncommon. This is the highest I've ever seen them as an anecdotal.

£700/day contract rate comes to £160k/year if you keep it full-time for the whole year. Or something in the £100k ballpark effective permie equivalent. Good, but only in the same ballpark as, say, qualified doctors. And not really so good if you have to live in (or commute into) London.

I've turned away recruiters dangling a lot more than that, on the grounds that I'd rather earn £peanuts here than £150k in a city bank.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

£500 to £700 has been the going rate in the city for the last 10 years.

Algorithmic trading is a niche skill in a bit of bubble at the moment.

Plain vanilla java jobs dont get advertised much these days, no need too.

Plenty of supply from graduates, imported talent, out of work natives etc IT agents have a surplus of those bodies on the books already.

These rates aren't that high. Chunks of the public sector are paying more than that per day.

[porca misèria]

These rates aren't that high. Chunks of the public sector are paying more than that per day.

Really depends on what level of job. It's high for a 25-year-old with just a couple of years since graduating, but not for a fortysomething with a distinguished track record.

In the city, they might very well be looking for the former.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

Really depends on what level of job. It's high for a 25-year-old with just a couple of years since graduating, but not for a fortysomething with a distinguished track record.

In the city, they might very well be looking for the former.

Though increasingly they look at skills and not age.

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

Benefits? , do those things actually exist? , I have noticed a massive decline in P11ds through my accounting career.

Holidays (10% of salary)

Pension (8% of salary on top of salary)

Redundancy pay if removed from job

Bupa (if you're lucky)

Company car

Laptop

all adds up.

[pilchardthecat]

500 a day isn't that much if you have to pay to live in London plus the other income/self employment taxes plus no benefits or security...............

It is not bad when 99% of them dodge IR35 and pay sod all tax, and half of them are barely competent anyway

[Kyoto]

500 a day isn't that much if you have to pay to live in London plus the other income/self employment taxes plus no benefits or security...............

These rates aren't that high. Chunks of the public sector are paying more than that per day.

Rubbish. I've been around the city and public sector consulting markets for the last 7 or 8 years - 500+ has been a rare sight in my opinion, I am seeing inflation to 600-700 here on a big scale.

[kingsgate]

I've been looking at the job sites today for contract opportunities.

Typing 'Java' into Jobserve reveals page after page of city/finance based contracts, all paying astronomical rates - e.g. £500-£700 PER DAY is not uncommon. This is the highest I've ever seen them as an anecdotal.

Didn't we learn our lesson? How come these ******* are living it large whilst the rest of the economy is dying? Why are their more jobs for algorithmic trading system developers than there are in the whole of the North West?

Because most people from the Northwest are primitives, still knocking flints together to make fire, and are not up to learning Java until they have mastered "speech" and "not flinging their own faeces around the room for a laugh".

[Neil B]

I've been looking at the job sites today for contract opportunities.

Typing 'Java' into Jobserve reveals page after page of city/finance based contracts, all paying astronomical rates - e.g. £500-£700 PER DAY is not uncommon. This is the highest I've ever seen them as an anecdotal.

Didn't we learn our lesson? How come these ******* are living it large whilst the rest of the economy is dying? Why are their more jobs for algorithmic trading system developers than there are in the whole of the North West?

This is the going rate and has been for over 10 years, however recently all contractors have had to cut their rates by 10%.

You have to bear in mind though that this rate is not standard and its only offered by Financial Institutions, so the canditates have to have a good understanding of the business also (derivatives, trading, investment principals etc).

Im one of these ****** as you put it and we are not living it large: It takes over 10 years usually to gain enough experience and qualifications to even be considered for interview by a financial institution in the City and then, as we are self employed, around 60% of our earnings is taken away by this wonderful government and given to benefit scroungers. Also working in the City is not a 9-5 job, especially as a contractor as you are expexted to work very long hours, so you have to live in Zone 1 or 2 and that aint cheap!

To answer your last question. Thats how it is. The City is the financial hub of Europe. Im originaly from the North West so my advise would be to study study study, get some experience in a lot of organisations, learn trading and finance inside out, specialise in a niche skill, become self employed (i.e. run your own business and be accountable for this country to rape you of your earnings), work for 10 years, move to London and wear a nice suit and be polite at the interview.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Neil B

[Olebrum]

Because most people from the Northwest are primitives, still knocking flints together to make fire, and are not up to learning Java until they have mastered "speech" and "not flinging their own faeces around the room for a laugh".

Or maybe they prefer real jobs producing real things, rather than working out how to help a bunch of slimy city tw4ts

'make' money from a rigged twisted and corrupt game set to drive the country to the brink of oblivion?

Thanks for your moronic bigotry.

[Guest skullingtonjoe]

Or maybe they prefer real jobs producing real things, rather than working out how to help a bunch of slimy city tw4ts

'make' money from a rigged twisted and corrupt game set to drive the country to the brink of oblivion?

Thanks for your moronic bigotry.

Understood. As a southerner, I enjoyed the odd `stottie` while working in Pity Me (yes, the place exists!).

You`ve hit the nail pretty much on the head, therein lies the essence of the service economy - more BS and smokescreens than Barnum`s circus. They`ve probably got wells over the City and Canary Wharf pumping billions of barrels of snake oil every day to sell to the hapless public in the shape of things like `shares`, `hedge funds` and other gobbledegook!. David Blane probably consults all the `Blue Chip` (whatever that means) on how to dupe people into parting with even more of their money.

(BTW - I think the OP was just taking the pi$$, but it was a bit over the top maybe). The days of producing real jobs doing real things are long since gone though. I`m learning Mandarin Chinese so I can ask `please sir, would you like me to shine your shoes?`

[Orbital]

I've found that head hunters tapping me up via linked in is the biggest problem I have. There are definitely genuine jobs out there that are proving hard to fill - in my IT niche we all tend to know each around London as we all have blogs, go to the same meets, etc, so we generally know who is recruiting where. What I have found is the willingness to offer more money to pull me away from my current position. Unfortunately I love my current position too much lol!

Like the housing market, the thing to remember is that the headline figures don't tell the full story. Remember that not every bank went bust, some had proved to be very prudent and didn't see the slightest wobble, job cuts, need for government cash, etc. And in the wider economy not every business is suffering. Just like not every house in the UK was subject to the headline rise and fall. More fool those that didn't look for themselves!

[mkil]

Holidays (10% of salary)

Pension (8% of salary on top of salary)

Redundancy pay if removed from job

Bupa (if you're lucky)

Company car

Laptop

all adds up.

Lol, what a joke that list is. (I'll give you the holiday one tho)

Pension... I bet 75% or more of employed people get no company help with their pension. These are people who will also be 'encouraged' to opt-out of personal accounts.

Redundancy - most people get statutory redundnacy.

The rest are just dreamland for most people.

[MinceBalls]

The City is the financial hub of Europe.

Not for long. Make hay while the sun shines matypeeps

[MinceBalls]

Lol, what a joke that list is. (I'll give you the holiday one tho)

Pension... I bet 75% or more of employed people get no company help with their pension. These are people who will also be 'encouraged' to opt-out of personal accounts.

Redundancy - most people get statutory redundnacy.

The rest are just dreamland for most people.

I think to give the poster credit we were talking about IT jobs in the city where you will find those perks fairly standard in full-time employment. Although most people I know get a larger (10%) contribution to their pension. I'll give one example of a friend:

Project manager in IT at investment back (been there 8 years)

£70K basic

£20K bonus

£4K car allowance taken as cash

10% contribution to pension

30 days holoday

Full medical insurance (he goes to a sports phisio once a week for football related injuries)

Edited December 2, 2009 by MinceBalls

[noodle doodle]

Or maybe they prefer real jobs producing real things, rather than working out how to help a bunch of slimy city tw4ts

'make' money from a rigged twisted and corrupt game set to drive the country to the brink of oblivion?

Thanks for your moronic bigotry.

Software's real. One of the few actual 'producing things to flog abroad' industries there is in this country

Coming from the 'real' north-west* the only producing jobs are in the nuke and aerospace industries. Everyone else either works in the public sector or sends the same batch of tenners whirling round each other as they cut each others' hair and serve each other drinks.

* (anything south of preston is more truthfully known as the north midlands - how can you be over a hundred miles from the border and think you're a northerner for christ's sake - still i'll save it for another thread)

[DTMark]

Software's real. One of the few actual 'producing things to flog abroad' industries there is in this country

Coming from the 'real' north-west* the only producing jobs are in the nuke and aerospace industries. Everyone else either works in the public sector or sends the same batch of tenners whirling round each other as they cut each others' hair and serve each other drinks.

* (anything south of preston is more truthfully known as the north midlands - how can you be over a hundred miles from the border and think you're a northerner for christ's sake - still i'll save it for another thread)

Slightly harsh but I know where you're coming from :-)

I'm getting daily emails about roles, I think an earlier poster mentioned they thought this was due to lots of layoffs last year and companies finding they do still need the people - albeit on possibly lower wages. Most of the emails are just plain funny - Central London, young, fast paced company (in IT, fast paced means "not enough people to do the work"), require ASP.NET developer with Ajax, Sql, 3 years experience - all for just 32k. You're having a laugh.

[MrPin]

one of my contractor mates has just secured a position with a blue chip city bank as a senior Business Analyst for the princely sum of 200 quid per day!!! That is a rate that I was earning at Norwich Union back in 1991!!!!!!!!!!! And he was very grateful to get that job after looking for 3 months.

So I am not convinced that things are all that rosy.

Don't they have access to tens of thousands of Java programmers from India and Eastern Europe?

That's about the reality of it Uncle Kev!

[MrPin]

Maybe I should learn Java. At the moment I only do Microsoft technology.

One of my mates is a IT recruitment bod, and he says he often places fake adverts to harvest cvs. Then when a real job comes up, they already have a list of potential applicants and they look like a super efficient agency with the best techies.

Quite right Johnny! Standard practice with a lot of agency types! Never seem to be considered for the "position applied for", but may end up with a phonecall for a "real" job in a few months"

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

Slightly harsh but I know where you're coming from :-)

I'm getting daily emails about roles, I think an earlier poster mentioned they thought this was due to lots of layoffs last year and companies finding they do still need the people - albeit on possibly lower wages. Most of the emails are just plain funny - Central London, young, fast paced company (in IT, fast paced means "not enough people to do the work"), require ASP.NET developer with Ajax, Sql, 3 years experience - all for just 32k. You're having a laugh.

You'll get people with that at that price. They just won't be very good.

[noodle doodle]

That's about the reality of it Uncle Kev!

There's loads of java programmers in india, the same way there's loads of runners. But because they're in india, you've no idea when outsourcing whether you're hiring a team of gabrie haile-selassie's or a bunch of club-footed asthmatics.

You are way better hiring locally (even if that's an indian who's shifted over to the uk), managing locally (rather than having to deal with a 6-hour time difference and someone who knows they can plonk the phone down on you) and paying well, because in software, saving money at the outset usually means paying double that saving in maintenance and ongoing dev in the end

[EmpiricalBear]

There does seem to be a lot of demand right now, number of Java jobs on Jobserve is back to where it was 18 months ago, it was dire this spring. FWIW I was earning £600 a day as a Senior Java programmer at an IB in 1999. I bought a brand new Saab in 2000 with the proceeds. Nice.

In 2000 listened to all the BS about outsourcing and foreign workers and decided to look around for a new career. Now 10 years on I find my experience and skills more in demand than ever.

These periodic contractor culls hold nothing to fear for the truly talented. The banks always overdo the number of contractors they lay off in a downturn, then the rates get pushed up very quickly when things pick up and a good reputation and CV will ensure that anyone good will find another position.

Depending on the bank, and how focused you are on your job its not always necessary to work excessively long hours. The main thing is to be productive and not spend too much time in meetings, chatting, web surfing etc. Oh, and don't do a front office oriented job, then you will have to work traders hours +

Having said that, I'd rather buy a cheap house in hull and raise carrier pigeons on the dole than go and work in a bank again. There are other ways of making money from software, Media doesn't pay as well but the people are more fun to work with.