Youth 'fight For Jobs' March Today

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Bob Crow's just about the only Trade Union boss I have any respect for these days. The rest have simply been bought off.

[tinker]

I really can't understand why youths aren't seething in anger at what has been done to them by the older political class.

They have been, lied to, deceived and sold down the river - their future sold.

I want to hear angry guitars and acerbic lyrics... see some attitude.

Maybe the march is an awakening.

I imagine it is not going to be much fun being old and needy in the next decade or so.

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

I really can't understand why youths aren't seething in anger at what has been done to them by the older political class.

They have been, lied to, deceived and sold down the river - their future sold.

I want to hear angry guitars and acerbic lyrics... see some attitude.

Maybe the march is an awakening.

I imagine it is not going to be much fun being old and needy in the next decade or so.

Nah, they're probably window shopping. Let's hope the march IS an awakening. They bloody well need one.

[UncleKev]

Congratulations boomers, this is what you've provided for your children.

Let's hope you're not going to need our help in your retirement, especially as you're not going to be forced into selling your mansions to pay someone to wipe your ****.

Don't be a tosser all your life. If you have a brain, try to use it to think. The world's problems have been casued by narrow vested interests and affect people of all ages. Dont be so stupid as to think that the culprits are an entire sector of the population that were born withing a specific time frame. Bigotry will get you nowhere and achieve nothing, whether its bigotry against an entire race, against an entire religon or an entire demographic section of the population.

[miko]

Lets reopen the coal pits. That'll learn em.

Why are socialists so stupid? Higher costs = higher prices = back to square one and then demanding £10 ph for a 'living' wage.

Wish I was a policeman sometimes, I'd love to beat the hell out of commies. Might even knock some sense into them.

They are no more stupid than the capitalist's, let's not forget that capitalism would have collapsed this time last year if the Bank's had not been bailed out by future generations of tax payers.

[MarkG]

The problem is rent, its astounding that socialists in general appear to be blind to this.

But socialism _is_ rent-seeking: the whole philosophy is based on stealing 'rent' from the productive people of the country to give to the unproductive. Why would they regard high rents as a bad thing?

What's the difference between a socialist saying 'pay your taxes or leave this country' and a landlord saying 'pay your rent or get out of my house'?

What is astounding is that anyone still takes socialism at all seriously.

[lets get it right]

Make your mind up boys, do you want a job or not

If people work 40 hours instead of 48, you get one extra job for every 5 people who drop from 48 to 40.

[lets get it right]

What is astounding is that anyone still takes socialism at all seriously.

What I find astounding is the present system.

Bankers inventing money to lend via CDOs and MBSs to the point where, unless we give them 62 billion, in secret, 2 of the biggest banks in the country would have collapsed causing the banking system to collapse.

Government bailing out said bankers with our money and said bankers paying themselves massive bonuses - as usual

A generation either priced out of home ownership or enticed into debt slavery all their lives

A government borrowing so much money that a generation will be paying it back - for a generation - while said government members retire on huge pension paid for by the people taxed to death to pay back the money the government borrowed.

I could go on all night, but it's beginning to sound too much like a lunatic asylum.

[lets get it right]

love the boomer envey, sat out ear in the peaceful countryside of France, enjoying my rewards of 40+ years hard work (including military), given not a penny, worked for all we have.

I hope if you work as hard as us you can enjoy similar benefits.

I love the envy you feel towards baby boomers. I am sitting here in the peaceful countryside of France, enjoying the rewards of over 40 years hard work. I have also (although why this makes me special I am not sure) been in the military. I have never been given a penny. I have worked for everything I have.

I hope if you work as hard as me you can enjoy similar benefits. Although, of course, you will work a lot harder than me. When I sold up in 2007 younger people bought the houses below mine in a property chain and took on massive mortgages so that I could sell my property and retire with their borrowed money in my bank account. Now, of course, this state of affairs cannot continue forever, because it is based on the premise that credit is infinite and house prices can continously increase above inflation. No, I got lucky. I was born at the right moment. By some amazing stroke of luck houses that cost say 30k in 1970 can be sold now for 600k. Bizarre but true.

Yes, my retirement is based on your debt. Thanks for allowing me a cushy twenty to thirty years of retirement.

Regards

RiG

Edited November 29, 2009 by Let's get it right

[miko]

What I find astounding is the present system.

Bankers inventing money to lend via CDOs and MBSs to the point where, unless we give them 62 billion, in secret, 2 of the biggest banks in the country would have collapsed causing the banking system to collapse.

Government bailing out said bankers with our money and said bankers paying themselves massive bonuses - as usual

A generation either priced out of home ownership or enticed into debt slavery all their lives

A government borrowing so much money that a generation will be paying it back - for a generation - while said government members retire on huge pension paid for by the people taxed to death to pay back the money the government borrowed.

I could go on all night, but it's beginning to sound too much like a lunatic asylum.

correct !!

[HPCatlast.]

What I find astounding is the present system.

Bankers inventing money to lend via CDOs and MBSs to the point where, unless we give them 62 billion, in secret, 2 of the biggest banks in the country would have collapsed causing the banking system to collapse.

Government bailing out said bankers with our money and said bankers paying themselves massive bonuses - as usual

A generation either priced out of home ownership or enticed into debt slavery all their lives

A government borrowing so much money that a generation will be paying it back - for a generation - while said government members retire on huge pension paid for by the people taxed to death to pay back the money the government borrowed.

I could go on all night, but it's beginning to sound too much like a lunatic asylum.

'letsgetitrite'

agree with that 100%, excellent summary.

Then you spoilt it with your following post! (ref. Boomers)

Property boom was not created by my age group, it was encouraged by EA's, lenders, politicians, and TV property porn.

We only purchased one house at a time (3 in total over 35 years) to LIVE IN, not as BTL, or as speculation.

The proberdee 'developers' that I have met, and who speculated/gambled with their futures are all a generation younger than me.

If you wish to point your finger at an age group who is responsible for this whole mess, then be more honest and single out the 30 - 40 year olds.

They are the ones who bought into the whole money for nothing, got to have, can't afford it, but I'll have it anyway, culture!

My age group (boring to the younger generation I know) tended to make purchases (other than house or car) with CASH, yes, real money, not monopoly credit card money.

It was very obvious to me (thanks also to HPC) that property was overheated by 2007, so decided to bail out of the market, I do not think that I have any special knowledge, only good old fashioned common sense, sadly a commodity that is getting rarer today.

No matter how you try, you will never convince me that I am in any way responsible for rising property values, as values went up so I had to pay more for the next house that we bought (from £5,500 in1972 to £64,500 in1987, but my weekly wage in 1972 was only £25).

Happy days, if only we still earned £25 a week, a home cost £5-6000, and paid little tax, happy days indeed.

You may be bitter about the situation, but if you bought into that culture do not make me responsible for your action, the problem with some of the younger folks today is that they will not take any responsibility for there own greed, and bad decisions made to gain a financial advantage!

RiG

[ken_ichikawa]

If people work 40 hours instead of 48, you get one extra job for every 5 people who drop from 48 to 40.

No your wage just gets cut from 48 paid hours a week to 40, and you have to take the work home with you, I noticed ths massively in accountancy, first year we had say 6 hours to do a job next year we had 5 hours to do that job, the year after that 4.5 hours to do that job which meant that people stayed late (unpaid) or took it home. One of the most depressing things about accountancy was that I regularly had to take work home, meaning I was effectively doing 55-60 hours a week, and only being salaried for 36.

[ken_ichikawa]

I was made redundant at the age of 19 (1979) having completed my apprentiship. Don't remember sitting on my **** blaming someone else though. It was a sign of the times and a fact of life.

So I shovelled shit for a year until something better came up and then I jumped and have kept my eyes open and my ear to the ground ever since, cos I don't want to be back shovelling shit again.

So this is sustainable is it? , that my 18K job is reduced to a £80 a week job? as recently as 2002 I used to work in factories at night, the night shift used to pay a premium, now it only pays NMW and is staffed by eastern Europeans who live 15-20 to a house, how the hell am I supposed to compete with that?.

In 1979 globalisation was still just a sperm lingering in its daddy's testicles, 2009 anything and everything is outsourced, your sh1t shoveling job would be given to a eastern european who has to live on the farmers caravans who gets £3 taken out as rent per hour.

I've been there and done that I've worked on magot farms, meat packing , bus washing, news paper dropping, meat prep (peeling and deveining), pizza delivery, washed dishes, even recently worked in porn all sorts.

[Ungeared]

Boo Hoo, Whine Whine

I was made redundant at the age of 19 (1979) having completed my apprentiship. Don't remember sitting on my **** blaming someone else though. It was a sign of the times and a fact of life.

So I shovelled shit for a year until something better came up and then I jumped and have kept my eyes open and my ear to the ground ever since, cos I don't want to be back shovelling shit again.

I sure don't live in a f**king mansion and I'll be putting a bullet in my head before anybody wipes my **** for me.

So grow up, get a spine and stop f**king whining.

Rant over, Goodnight.

Quality

[LowestoftBoy]

Trouble is, a nineteen year old can't even get a job shoveling shit today, because Labour have given all the shit-shoveling jobs to cheap immigrants.

That is so, so true.

I was that 19 year old in 1983. The job I done back then is now being done by the Pork 'n' cheese!

[Authoritarian]

They are no more stupid than the capitalist's, let's not forget that capitalism would have collapsed this time last year if the Bank's had not been bailed out by future generations of tax payers.

Have you ever played the game Monopoly? I'm sure you have, so you'll know that the objective of the game is to go around buying up all the properties and then charge people lots rent when they land on them. The original title for monoply was 'The Landlords Game' and was supposed to teach people about the dangers of this type of behaviour.

We've been playing a massive game on monopoly the the past 2 or 3 hundred years now and every couple of decades or so it leads to a debt induced bust. Because the underlying mechanism of this process in the monopolisation of a finite resource (land) I would say that it isn't a problem with capitalism, but instead a problem with the rent seekers; those that want something for nothing.

Its a shame that genuine capitalists get tarred with the same brush, but because there's an unwillingness to make a distinction between true capital (tools that can be receated) and land the bust tends to get laid at the doorsetep of capitalism.

[ken_ichikawa]

thanks Pete,

too late mate, already seen the light (2007) and sold up.

love the boomer envey, sat out ear in the peaceful countryside of France, enjoying my rewards of 40+ years hard work (including military), given not a penny, worked for all we have.

I hope if you work as hard as us you can enjoy similar benefits.

Regards

RiG

This link is now broken, hard work != sucess,

For example the guys on the dole across the road have a better life style than me when I was working, how is this right?, outsourcing etc is a massive beating stick in wage negotiations, I mean the first few years in accountancy I spilled out my guts taking work home having to prop up other workers when they went off ill and got pregnant. I remember unfondly the time when I effectively did Diane's John's and Kaths work and went into work when I was ill with flu and had uncontrollable shivering...

Was I rewarded? , no, I had a £12000 salary for my trouble which got no increase, an awful lot of people will think why bother, I left for another company which pretty much did the same for a bit more money.

Though there are ceilings in all of this in that I know accountancy companies run a cartel as all the HRM managers meet up twice a year on discussing pay and they all fix it and agree to a certain level so that nobody can really get out of this.

[ken_ichikawa]

They are no more stupid than the capitalist's, let's not forget that capitalism would have collapsed this time last year if the Bank's had not been bailed out by future generations of tax payers.

Collaspe = capitalism, in that the strong survive the weak die,

[steve99]

Lets reopen the coal pits. That'll learn em.

Why are socialists so stupid? Higher costs = higher prices = back to square one and then demanding £10 ph for a 'living' wage.

Wish I was a policeman sometimes, I'd love to beat the hell out of commies. Might even knock some sense into them.

Or even better, remove a few heads at the top end of town who the average worker or even unemployed person is subsidising in one form or another. The mega rich rip off merchants are working hard to offshore jobs along with bringing cheap labour in to keep the local wages down. The reason the UK is an expensive place for the lower paid workers to live is on account of the high prices for services which are driven higher by the massive amount extracted by CEO's execs and management. dito top end of the unCivil service. The average worker is usualy quite content until the greedy class create either unemployment or inflation, which is what they have done in great abundance recently.

[Authoritarian]

If people work 40 hours instead of 48, you get one extra job for every 5 people who drop from 48 to 40.

And then those 5 workers would be better off on benefits or have trouble with the bills because you've just legislated away their overtime.

I'm sure that evenutally the EU will force us to this anyway so that we're in 'harmonisation' with the rest of the membership, but for the time being I'm glad that workers have a choice on this issue.

[steve99]

Have you ever played the game Monopoly? I'm sure you have, so you'll know that the objective of the game is to go around buying up all the properties and then charge people lots rent when they land on them. The original title for monoply was 'The Landlords Game' and was supposed to teach people about the dangers of this type of behaviour.

We've been playing a massive game on monopoly the the past 2 or 3 hundred years now and every couple of decades or so it leads to a debt induced bust. Because the underlying mechanism of this process in the monopolisation of a finite resource (land) I would say that it isn't a problem with capitalism, but instead a problem with the rent seekers; those that want something for nothing.

Its a shame that genuine capitalists get tarred with the same brush, but because there's an unwillingness to make a distinction between true capital (tools that can be receated) and land the bust tends to get laid at the doorsetep of capitalism.

This is the case, but like any ism, which is based on an ideal, there has never been a time, apart from in very small societies, where things haven't very quickly gone astray, ie corruption, cartels, slavery/exploitation cronyism etc etc dito socialism, which gets hijacked by civil servants who then increase their power base etc etc. To be pragmatic, it would be fair to say that in the long run nothing will work very well and we will always swing back and forth between capital and labour. Or people control and revolution in one form or another. This last bout of capitalism, if in fact you can call it that has been based on the corrupt and irresponsible control of our monetary systems by the banks and other 'city' entities, they have been the tail wagging the dog who have induced and encouraged speculative gambling/bubbles rather than productive enterprise. Until government recognise that one, then we are in for more of the same, but different.

[Authoritarian]

This is the case, but like any ism, which is based on an ideal, there has never been a time, apart from in very small societies, where things haven't very quickly gone astray, ie corruption, cartels, slavery/exploitation cronyism etc etc dito socialism, which gets hijacked by civil servants who then increase their power base etc etc. To be pragmatic, it would be fair to say that in the long run nothing will work very well and we will always swing back and forth between capital and labour. Or people control and revolution in one form or another. This last bout of capitalism, if in fact you can call it that has been based on the corrupt and irresponsible control of our monetary systems by the banks and other 'city' entities, they have been the tail wagging the dog who have induced and encouraged speculative gambling/bubbles rather than productive enterprise. Until government recognise that one, then we are in for more of the same, but different.

Things are more likely to go astray when the citizens of a territory are not treated as equals. We thought we'd finally achieved equality in this country circa 1928 when the vote was eventually allowed on an even footing between men and women. Finally everyone had a say in the decision making process, not just the elites. But there's one more hurdle that needs to be overcome before democracy keeps eating itself up; equality in the realm of public finances. The way the state funds itself is not only abusive and arbitrary but inefficient. The rewards of socialised spending are captured unevenly because the benefits of spending on state infrastructure are weighted heavily in favour to those that own homes and land. This is an abuse of the state, if its biased towards one section of the population then its corrupt and needs to be reformed.

This would mean though that the current cartel of land owners were dragged kicking and screaming towards recognising that they're all playing their part in stopping others from accessing what is rightfully theirs too, nature itself. There needs to be a stand off and IMO the dividing line should be this; if home owners are unwilling to 'share' the proceeds of land prices with the rest of us, then we should equally demand that our wages be kept privately and not used for social activities which benefit them and their property. Why should I pay to keep their house prices high? I wish workers would recognise this abusive state of afffairs so they could finally take some meaningful action.

Edited November 29, 2009 by chefdave

[the_dork]

Things are more likely to go astray when the citizens of a territory are not treated as equals. We thought we'd finally achieved equality in this country circa 1928 when the vote was eventually allowed on an even footing between men and women. Finally everyone had a say in the decision making process, not just the elites. But there's one more hurdle that needs to be overcome before democracy keeps eating itself up; equality in the realm of public finances. The way the state funds itself is not only abusive and arbitrary but inefficient. The rewards of socialised spending are captured unevenly because the benefits of spending on state infrastructure are weighted heavily in favour to those that own homes and land. This is an abuse of the state, if its biased towards one section of the population then its corrupt and needs to be reformed.

This would mean though that the current cartel of land owners were dragged kicking and screaming towards recognising that they're all playing their part in stopping others from accessing what is rightfully theirs too, nature itself. There needs to be a stand off and IMO the dividing line should be this; if home owners are unwilling to 'share' the proceeds of land prices with the rest of us, then we should equally demand that our wages be kept privately and not used for social activities which benefit them and their property. Why should I pay to keep their house prices high? I wish workers would recognise this abusive state of afffairs so they could finally take some meaningful action.

I normally just lurk here but that is probably the best post I've ever read on here and deserves to be quoted for truth.

I am not aware of any pressure groups that propose this simple and obvious solution, are you?

[Authoritarian]

I normally just lurk here but that is probably the best post I've ever read on here and deserves to be quoted for truth.

I am not aware of any pressure groups that propose this simple and obvious solution, are you?

Thank you, thats very kind. I can't take all the credit though, a lot of that theory comes from Fred Harrison and he spells it out clarly in this vid;

Here's his website too; http://renegadeeconomist.com/

I'm not aware of any major pressure groups advocating this style of reform. I went to a Socialist Workers Party meeting a couple of week ago and brought it up but was basically ignored. There's a few pockets of advocates here and there but no such movement that I'm aware of.

Edited November 29, 2009 by chefdave

[RB's love cub]

Trouble is, a nineteen year old can't even get a job shoveling shit today, because Labour have given all the shit-shoveling jobs to cheap immigrants.

The jobs havn't been given , just the labour market has been opened up to people from around the world, 50p a day is good money in places in the far East, the open door policy opens this country to migrants who are glad to work for £4 an hour, its supply and demand, the idiots have increased supply so prices fall, our living standards will fall, in my opinion will fall to 2nd or 3rd world levels, I think it will be quick as well, we are borrowing and printing our way to continue our living standards this will give out by next year, my opinion is based on 2 facts, we cant feed ourselves as a nation, our manufacturing base has been destroyed, name a major British manufacturer of anything?