Scottish Independence By 2011 Could Be A Possibility

[Matt Henson]

What is saved on benefits wouldn't be kept in the sporran son, the myth of the tight-wad Scot is is exactly that! I see the money being spent on renewable energy technologies, both reseach and infra-structure.

As I posted before, we need to focus on the positives not the negatives if independance is going to work, and hopefully the negative aspects of our society (such as teenage pregnancies) will die off as we progress. I suspect a 30% cut in benefits would also help that statistic! NCR manufacturing has indeed gone, but this wasn't the world class part of the operation. The R&D facility is still here, and still designing ATM's as far as I'm aware.

The R&D center is still there but much smaller than it used to be, the trouble is there is no real business agenda in the political workings. I met Wendy Alexander a couple of time and she knew what needed to be done but she was never part of the political old boys club that runs Scotland and so was forced out. The destruction of Kilmarnock would never have happened if the SNP had enaged Diageo properly for example.

Again cutting benefits does not work as you would think, it drives people in to poverty and desparation which leads to civil unrest (bad press) and crime. The only way to win that battle is entice them out of the benefit system.

[Allthatglitters]

You can't get away from the fact that if a vote was held in England for independence, it would be goodbye Scotland.

Basically Scotland has spent the last 1000 years stabbing England in the back while we were looking the other way.

Same this time - France and Germany, via the EU are trying to destroy the UK and Scotland is just trying to play its usual historical role.

The difference this time is -

NO ONE IN ENGLAND CARES - WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF YOU AND YOUR USELESS BANKS AND EVEN MORE USELESS POLITICIANS.

Are you for real? Stabbing England in the back? The Scots provided more than their fare share of brains and brawn to build the Empire that the English still cling on to forlornly.

Oh and what do you think the 'H' in HBOS stands for?

[Game_Over]

I didn't know you were Scottish?

Personally I think it would be a mistake to break up the UK.

This is what the French, Germans and Spanish have been trying to achieve for centuries.

But the Scots on here who think the English are going to pull them back from the brink or beg them not to go are living in an egotistical fantasy World.

My impartial advice would be - be very careful what you wish for.

The 'Celtc Tiger' model has just gone down the toilet never to return and the 'renewable energy' con trick will shortly go the same way.

There are very harsh times coming and if the Scots want to try and get through them alone - good luck to them!

[Wait & See]

Personally I think it would be a mistake to break up the UK.

This is what the French, Germans and Spanish have been trying to achieve for centuries.

But the Scots on here who think the English are going to pull them back from the brink or beg them not to go are living in an egotistical fantasy World.

My impartial advice would be - be very careful what you wish for.

The 'Celtc Tiger' model has just gone down the toilet never to return and the 'renewable energy' con trick will shortly go the same way.

There are very harsh times coming and if the Scots want to try and get through them alone - good luck to them!

More oil will be found IMO.

[Game_Over]

Are you for real? Stabbing England in the back? The Scots provided more than their fare share of brains and brawn to build the Empire that the English still cling on to forlornly.

Oh and what do you think the 'H' in HBOS stands for?

It stands for a solid, financially sound English building Society dragged down by a bankrupt Scottish bank.

And Lloyds were also financially sound before being shackled to another bankrupt Scottish bank RBS.

[Gone baby gone]

There are very harsh times coming and if the Scots want to try and get through them alone - good luck to them!

I don't think they would be alone, they would be a part of the European Union, just not a part of the UK.

[Allthatglitters]

It stands for a solid, financially sound English building Society dragged down by a bankrupt Scottish bank.

And Lloyds were also financially sound before being shackled to another bankrupt Scottish bank RBS.

you're clearly an (ill informed) troll.

there's little point in debating with you.

[noodle doodle]

Oh ffs of course we know where the wall is

it is mentioned as a symbol of the border thats all

All you non-border types sitting in Little-Wolding-on-the-Daily-Mail or Auchtercrivvens couldn't point it out on a map of Hadrians Wall that was glued to a map of the UK with a big sign saying "This is where Hadrian's Wall is, look" with an accompanying half-hour documentary from Simon Schama on where Hadrian's Wall is, and all the time you were actually viewing this sitting on Hadrian's Wall drinking from a Hadrian's Wall placename mug.

[Gone baby gone]

Again cutting benefits does not work as you would think, it drives people in to poverty and desparation which leads to civil unrest (bad press) and crime. The only way to win that battle is entice them out of the benefit system.

Actually, a 30% cut in certain benefits would be a stroke of genius.

If an independent Scotland became a member of the European Union - as they surely would - the hardcore benefit claimants would just make their way south to England, where they would be fully entitled to claim benefits Jobs a good 'un.

[uptherebels]

Actually, a 30% cut in certain benefits would be a stroke of genius.

If an independent Scotland became a member of the European Union - as they surely would - the hardcore benefit claimants would just make their way south to England, where they would be fully entitled to claim benefits Jobs a good 'un.

Most of them are already in Corby.

[1888]

All you non-border types sitting in Little-Wolding-on-the-Daily-Mail or Auchtercrivvens couldn't point it out on a map of Hadrians Wall that was glued to a map of the UK with a big sign saying "This is where Hadrian's Wall is, look" with an accompanying half-hour documentary from Simon Schama on where Hadrian's Wall is, and all the time you were actually viewing this sitting on Hadrian's Wall drinking from a Hadrian's Wall placename mug.

I've walked the wall including the parts where it no longer exists

from Carlisle to just north of Hexham and on to Newcastle ,it is ENTIRELY in England .

hope that helps

[Wimbledon88]

I would vote for independance. I think it's best that the UK just dissolves with the English keeping the debt ofcourse!

A clean slate for scotland and Wales would be a great parting gift.

Scotland and Wales could start from a clean sleat and within five years they would be begging at the doors of the IMF.

[AThirdWay]

The R&D center is still there but much smaller than it used to be, the trouble is there is no real business agenda in the political workings. I met Wendy Alexander a couple of time and she knew what needed to be done but she was never part of the political old boys club that runs Scotland and so was forced out. The destruction of Kilmarnock would never have happened if the SNP had enaged Diageo properly for example.

Again cutting benefits does not work as you would think, it drives people in to poverty and desparation which leads to civil unrest (bad press) and crime. The only way to win that battle is entice them out of the benefit system.

My point is that there is still a lot of Scottish talent available, it just needs to be recognised and nurtured by the rest of Scotland! There are elements of Scottish society that just don't/can't/won't recognize that Scotland has added much to the global engineering, politics and finance (controversial one that!) areas, and can bring much more.

The East/West divide exists, but Kilmarnock's loss will be Fife's (admittedly smaller) gain. That's business I'm afraid.

As to luring people off benefits, reducing the levels of compensation is a start, but hopefully the inward investment can provide enough work for all that want it. As per my first post, hopefully we can off-load the die-hards South of the border prior to registering citizenship

[AThirdWay]

Actually, a 30% cut in certain benefits would be a stroke of genius.

If an independent Scotland became a member of the European Union - as they surely would - the hardcore benefit claimants would just make their way south to England, where they would be fully entitled to claim benefits Jobs a good 'un.

See, your getting the hang of it

[dispossessed]

Scotland is more divided then most people realise, what unites them is the hatred of the English:

Edinburgh hates Glasgow

The Highlands and Islands do not like the Southerners

The Orkney’s and Shetland do not see themselves as Scottish and may want their own independence.

Plus the religious divide is as bad as Northern Ireland.

Oh I love uncomrfotable truths.

Are you for real? Stabbing England in the back? The Scots provided more than their fare share of brains and brawn to build the Empire that the English still cling on to forlornly.

Oh and what do you think the 'H' in HBOS stands for?

Horific debt burden?

I do recall a significant poll whereby there were not only more English who wanted Scottish independence than Scottish ("independence for Scotland, freedom for England") but that the ratio by poulation was higher as well. What I can't fathom is why this is only ever seen as something for the Scottish to decide upon. After all, it affects all of Britain of which we are part, and perhaps the English would actually like independence from Scotland, Wales and NI.

Personally, I'm for the union which makes me more in tune with Scottish, rather than English opinion. There's another uncomfortable truth Mr Salmond.

[Matt Henson]

My point is that there is still a lot of Scottish talent available, it just needs to be recognised and nurtured by the rest of Scotland! There are elements of Scottish society that just don't/can't/won't recognize that Scotland has added much to the global engineering, politics and finance (controversial one that!) areas, and can bring much more.

The East/West divide exists, but Kilmarnock's loss will be Fife's (admittedly smaller) gain. That's business I'm afraid.

As to luring people off benefits, reducing the levels of compensation is a start, but hopefully the inward investment can provide enough work for all that want it. As per my first post, hopefully we can off-load the die-hards South of the border prior to registering citizenship

Interesting you mention inward investment, clearly that policy has failed (note the giant white elephants in Halbeath and Eurocentral etc.) I also experienced an painful job for the sakes of job approach when SE tried to develop the technology sector, there is no business acumen to drive the sector forward and no ability for outsiders to help. A perfect example that I was close to, SE set up the Alba centre and would only let personally sellected organisations in despite that fact that we worked for a well known company in the electronics sector, one such company was the virtual component exchange, SE invested many millions of tax payers money in this "start-up" which allows an ex-pcb layout engineer (Qualified CEO??) and an IC layout Engineer (qualified VP sales and marketing???) to blast around the world in business class to push forward an idea that was never going to fly (those in the industry could see that) Eventually the assets of this failed business were sold for a few tens of thousand. It was just jobs for the boys and dot com exuberance.

The die-harders will never migrate they are too Scottish to get on in England ;-)

[Guest Skinty]

What I can't fathom is why this is only ever seen as something for the Scottish to decide upon. After all, it affects all of Britain of which we are part, and perhaps the English would actually like independence from Scotland, Wales and NI.

England could always try and get independence from the UK. Judging by all the comments on here about how its brought down by all the non-english countries you'd wonder why it hasn't. Possibly because the facts do not tally up with the perception.

It's up to a country to decide whether or not it is part of the union, not the union to decide whether a country should be allowed out. Imagine being married and wanting a divorce but your wife does not allow you one. What do you? Carry on living with your wife as if you are married? Of course not.

What the unionists here are suggesting is the equivalent of voting UKIP and not being allowed out of the EU even though the majority want it. Or the rest of the United Kingdom chucking out England and forcing it to be independent.

The unionists seem to think that different principles apply to the UK and the EU compared to Scotland and the UK.

It would be funny to see how long England lasted though with few natural resources of its own and a broken parasitic economy. But woe-betide Scotland's economy if it should try going it alone.

[Goat]

As per my first post, hopefully we can off-load the die-hards South of the border prior to registering citizenship

So your position is that it can only really be made to work if you can take all the oil, default on your share of the national debt and offload the majority of the benefits claimants as well.

Not realistic is it.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Young Goat

[Matt Henson]

It would be funny to see how long England lasted though with few natural resources of its own and a broken parasitic economy. But woe-betide Scotland's economy if it should try going it alone.

Given that England provides the bulk of the funding for socialist Scottish ecomony to provide free university education, free prescription and free care for the elderly plus employ so many public sector workers I wonder who is calling who parasitic?

There are a number of things that don't come in to that either like defence spend, who is going to pay for the Scottish army? London does today?

I actively support Independance for England and therefore Scotland but will it work? after all the Union came about from the bankrupting of Scotland in the pursuit of the "New World"

[AThirdWay]

Interesting you mention inward investment, clearly that policy has failed (note the giant white elephants in Halbeath and Eurocentral etc.) I also experienced an painful job for the sakes of job approach when SE tried to develop the technology sector, there is no business acumen to drive the sector forward and no ability for outsiders to help. A perfect example that I was close to, SE set up the Alba centre and would only let personally sellected organisations in despite that fact that we worked for a well known company in the electronics sector, one such company was the virtual component exchange, SE invested many millions of tax payers money in this "start-up" which allows an ex-pcb layout engineer (Qualified CEO??) and an IC layout Engineer (qualified VP sales and marketing???) to blast around the world in business class to push forward an idea that was never going to fly (those in the industry could see that) Eventually the assets of this failed business were sold for a few tens of thousand. It was just jobs for the boys and dot com exuberance.

The die-harders will never migrate they are too Scottish to get on in England ;-)

Ah yes, good old Scottish Enterprise. Not sure of it's origins, a Labour idea? It wouldn't survive the spin off. Not sure what you mean by "no ability for outsiders to help"? If you mean SE had a policy of no outside help, then get rid of SE and find someone who can find external expertise and sign him/her up!

As to business acumen, the world is full of Scottish business people who would love to set up in this country, but for many of the reasons voiced in this thread, they won't. But a change of government, and a change of governance of government departments (if you get my drift!), could change that. There are thousands of foreign owned businesses that operate in Scotland under the current London-centric government, what could we do with a Scotland, and Scots, centric mind-set!

[AThirdWay]

So your position is that it can only really be made to work if you can take all the oil, default on your share of the national debt and offload the majority of the benefits claimants as well.

Not realistic is it.

Based on the oil receipts quoted in Ms Laura's earlier post, it can work.

If you can argue that the GB national debt is exactly that, GB's debt, then could you argue that the 'new' Scottish nation owe's nothing?

Not the majority of benefit claimants, no. Just the die-hard's.

Not realistic because????

[AThirdWay]

Given that England provides the bulk of the funding for socialist Scottish ecomony to provide free university education, free prescription and free care for the elderly plus employ so many public sector workers I wonder who is calling who parasitic?

There are a number of things that don't come in to that either like defence spend, who is going to pay for the Scottish army? London does today?

I actively support Independance for England and therefore Scotland but will it work? after all the Union came about from the bankrupting of Scotland in the pursuit of the "New World"

I refer you to Laura's earlier posts, and my reply

[Guest Skinty]

Given that England provides the bulk of the funding for [stuff]

Really?

I think not.

[1888]

Given that England provides the bulk of the funding for socialist Scottish ecomony to provide free university education, free prescription and free care for the elderly plus employ so many public sector workers I wonder who is calling who parasitic?

There are a number of things that don't come in to that either like defence spend, who is going to pay for the Scottish army? London does today?

I actively support Independance for England and therefore Scotland but will it work? after all the Union came about from the bankrupting of Scotland in the pursuit of the "New World"

and where are you going to get the soldiers to fight your wars

the armed forces are 30% Scottish

not bad for 9% of the UK population

If Scotland was such a drain on the UK resources

we would have been given our independence 30 yrs ago

when the majority of us voted for it

instead the goalposts were suddenly shifted to demand

that 50% + of the ENTIRE voting population had to say YES

England has been suckling on our oily breasts for too long

and I couldnt give a toss if we end up poorer tbh

freedom is priceless

[KingBingo]

I would vote for independance. I think it's best that the UK just dissolves with the English keeping the debt ofcourse!

It would be galling to have had a Scottish Chancellor piss away billions we don't have for a decade, replaced by a another Scottish Chancellor who pissed away even more Billions, then for the Scots to pack up and leave all the debt behind.

However, Scotland is instituioional Socialist, and Socialism is a Cancer, so it would be worth while, so yes, if need be I would vote for Scotland to gain independence debt free. Almost any price is worth paying to get rid of this dead weight on the English.