Uk Slips From 3rd To 11th In Graduation Table

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educatio...le-1783585.html

The United Kingdom has slipped down an international educational league table from third to 11th place because such a relatively low proportion of young people are graduating from university, compared to other countries.

Nine years ago the UK was near the top of the developed world countries in its percentage of youngsters graduating. But this year it only made 11th in theOrganisation for Economic for Co-operation and Development’s Education at a Glance report.

Its graduation rate did rise, from 37 per cent in 2000 to 39 per cent now but was overtaken by other countries, with the average graduation rate for OECD members rising from 18 per cent in 1995 to 39 per cent in 2007. Top place was Iceland, where 63 per cent of students graduates.

The report, published yesterday, also confirmed that the UK has one of the lowest rates of 15 to 19-year-olds participatiing in full-time or part-time education, at 71 per cent. Many of these youngsters are likely to end up as NEETs (not in education, employment or training). Only Mexico and Turkey fared worse than the UK in that category, with 50 per cent and 47 per cent of youngsters in education respectively. The OECD average is 82 per cent.

The figures coincided with the prospect of more than 130,000 candidates eligible for a university place through clearing being turned away from UK higher education institutions this year.

They also prompted a call from OECD leaders for the Government to use the recession as a time for more investment in education to help youngsters acquire the skills to get out of the recession.

A similar picture emerged in the provision of nursery places, where the UK was one of the world leaders at the turn of the century but is now down to 11th place as places for 90 per cent of children aged four or under.

“From 1995 to 2000 the UK was one of the most dynamic providers,†said Andreas Schleicher, head of the education indicators and analysis division of the OECD’s education directorate. “The UK has done better but others have improved at a faster rate.â€

Labour improving the nation???

It appears everything they touch turns to sh1t.

Would this also be down to record numbers attending but many may not be of the right quality to graduate?

What do they mean by graduate? Surely they can't be meaning that 60% of students fail degrees?

[CarbonBasedLifeform]

oh sh1t where are we going to get our future community outreach intergration resource officers from wer,e f****ed.

[ralphmalph]

I met a lecturer once from one of this new labour Universities and over the course of the conversation she let slip that she did not have a degree and labour had changed all the rules. When I went to Uni they not only had to have a degree they had to have a PHd as well to lecture.

I was flabbergasted how can some one who can not achieve degree level teach students that are trying to get a degree. Also before someone points out that the lecturer may have had real world experience she was about 25.

Dumbing down is not the word for it.

[interestrateripoff]

Sorry can't resist should have put it in the original post.

It's a graduateless recovery.

[HovelinHove]

I met a lecturer once from one of this new labour Universities and over the course of the conversation she let slip that she did not have a degree and labour had changed all the rules. When I went to Uni they not only had to have a degree they had to have a PHd as well to lecture.

I was flabbergasted how can some one who can not achieve degree level teach students that are trying to get a degree. Also before someone points out that the lecturer may have had real world experience she was about 25.

Dumbing down is not the word for it.

Unreal. Most degrees that people get now are worthless and only good for feeding the corporations the office slaves they need.

[CokeSnortingTory]

It's a good thing that we are wasting less money on international d1ck-waving competitions, such as who can produce the biggest number of over-qualified call-centre operatives.

There is patently no correlation whatsoever between the number of graduates we produce and the efficiency of our economy. Or if there is, then the correlation is negative.

[interestrateripoff]

It's a good thing that we are wasting less money on international d1ck-waving competitions, such as who can produce the biggest number of over-qualified call-centre operatives.

There is patently no correlation whatsoever between the number of graduates we produce and the efficiency of our economy. Or if there is, then the correlation is negative.

I would like to challenge that assertion.

Our Parliament is full of graduates and just look at the magnificent job they are doing.

[Three Pint Princess 2]

Edit: I think this is what they are talking about

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/25/43636332.pdf

Sorry wrong file

Edited September 8, 2009 by Three Pint Princess 2

[juvenal]

I met a lecturer once from one of this new labour Universities and over the course of the conversation she let slip that she did not have a degree and labour had changed all the rules. When I went to Uni they not only had to have a degree they had to have a PHd as well to lecture.

I was flabbergasted how can some one who can not achieve degree level teach students that are trying to get a degree. Also before someone points out that the lecturer may have had real world experience she was about 25.

Dumbing down is not the word for it.

I'd lke to see a print source for this, of any kind. Most universties nowadays, new or old, not only want a degree from new lecturing appointees, but a PhD either achieved or about to be. This is how they push themselves up the league tables, get additional funding and attract lucrative foreign students.

Given the number of people aspiring to lecture, instutions can afford to be choosy, because there is no shortage of PhD's looking for a lecturing opening.

Edited September 8, 2009 by juvenal

[CokeSnortingTory]

I would like to challenge that assertion.

Our Parliament is full of graduates and just look at the magnificent job they are doing.

Yes, and luckily they all tend to be legal graduates, which means that they are all experienced in the important technical and infrastructural aspects of the UK economy, and not at all prone to indulge in petty and unnecessary legislation.

[hilltop]

Labour can be blamed for the failure of our universities, but only because they have not intervened enough. The universities claim academic freedom means that no-one should interfere with anything they do.

Each university is autonomous, like an Italian City State and each machiavellian Vice Chancellor has huge power. The chairman of the Commons Select Committee looking at universities complained how difficult it was to get an honest answer out of Vice Chancellors.

The upshot is that for financial reasons, Vice Chancellors inflated degree classifications, not 'fit for purpose'.

But students are not that thick, they are coming to realise, sadly after their first year, that they are being sold LIAR DEGREES and dropping out. A terrible cost and waste.

[Patfig]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educatio...le-1783585.html

Labour improving the nation???

It appears everything they touch turns to sh1t.

Would this also be down to record numbers attending but many may not be of the right quality to graduate?

What do they mean by graduate? Surely they can't be meaning that 60% of students fail degrees?

Garbage in = garbage out

[ralphmalph]

I'd lke to see a print source for this, of any kind. Most universties nowadays, new or old, not only want a degree from new lecturing appointees, but a PhD either achieved or about to be. This is how they push themselves up the league tables, get additional funding and attract lucrative foreign students.

Given the number of people aspiring to lecture, instutions can afford to be choosy, because there is no shortage of PhD's looking for a lecturing opening.

I was in Mexico at the time so this was 2004 and she lecturer at I think Greenwich Poly (could be worng here was is South bank poly) which became the University of the South of London.

Edited September 8, 2009 by ralphmalph

[ralphmalph]

http://www.accreditedqualifications.org.uk...cation.seo.aspx

If look at the section of jobs that this qualification allows you to do then "Lecturer in Further Education" is listed. As to whether the further educational establishment is a so called University that is not stated.

[noodle doodle]

I'd lke to see a print source for this, of any kind. Most universties nowadays, new or old, not only want a degree from new lecturing appointees, but a PhD either achieved or about to be. This is how they push themselves up the league tables, get additional funding and attract lucrative foreign students.

Given the number of people aspiring to lecture, instutions can afford to be choosy, because there is no shortage of PhD's looking for a lecturing opening.

+1

it was in the good old olden days you could lecture without a phd because well, basically, a degree was like a phd, and old a-levels were the same as a BSc etc etc. I don't think the universities get extra kudos for employing phds, apart from that fact students probably expect to be taught by dr. someone rather than a mr or a mrs

[noodle doodle]

http://www.accreditedqualifications.org.uk...cation.seo.aspx

If look at the section of jobs that this qualification allows you to do then "Lecturer in Further Education" is listed. As to whether the further educational establishment is a so called University that is not stated.

Further Ed ain't Higher Ed

[Peter Hun]

I met a lecturer once from one of this new labour Universities

WTF is a "new labour University"

[blankster]

Unreal. Most degrees that people get now are worthless and only good for feeding the corporations the office slaves they need.

We need more people studying real subjects, like science, engineering, medical research etc. and fewer people studying things like business studies, literature, media studies, economics etc. Edited September 8, 2009 by blankster

[codeine]

yeah, University is a giant piss-up for a lot of people in this country.

It's basically a 3-4 year social club, while you spend a bit of time blagging your way through the course.

A lot of people I knew lasted 2 years on the piss-up (courtesy of the Student Loan) before dropping out.

On another note, I love quotes such as "I did a degree in a Liberal Arts college, and was amazed at how few opportunities awaited me out in the market". I wonder what kind of job they expected to be handed when they signed up to a degree in film-watching

[cashinmattress]

Come on, most degrees offered nowadays give young people -50% (yes, that is a negative) of the skills they need to be successful in the workforce.

Skills leaned through a syllabus containing:

Sense of Entitlement 101

Delusions of Grandeur 205

Over the Counter Mood Altering Substances 300

Social Irresponsibility 400

and of course:

Debt as Wealth 405

Good luck to all you young gits! We ate all the pies...

[hilltop]

Come on, most degrees offered nowadays give young people -50% (yes, that is a negative) of the skills they need to be successful in the workforce.

Skills leaned through a syllabus containing:

Sense of Entitlement 101

Delusions of Grandeur 205

Over the Counter Mood Altering Substances 300

Social Irresponsibility 400

and of course:

Debt as Wealth 405

Good luck to all you young gits! We ate all the pies...

There you are, now we are all Middle Class.

[codeine]

'Tis a good thing you come out of it all with £12,000+ worth of "Gordon's Wealth" then

[blankster]

Although I'm middle-class I've done working-class jobs in the past.

In manual jobs one needs to be able to:

Do the job as well as, or better than, the next man.

To be able to pull your weight.

To be able to sabotage and skive as well, when the situation dictates.

[blankster]

yeah, University is a giant piss-up for a lot of people in this country.

It's basically a 3-4 year social club, while you spend a bit of time blagging your way through the course.

Did you go to university yourself? Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

[cashinmattress]

Although I'm middle-class I've done working-class jobs in the past.

In manual jobs one needs to be able to:

Do the job as well as, or better than, the next man.

To be able to pull your weight.

To be able to sabotage and skive as well, when the situation dictates.

Yep.

If you can't take pride in even the most menial of tasks, how can you ever expect to be happy.

I don't really agree with the sabotage bit though, seems a bit boorish and petty.

We all love a good skive though.

The whole notion of 'class' is pants. Most 'working' class trademen that I've known in my life have far more going for them that their suited and 'educated' counterparts, aka 'suit dummies'.

Douglas Adams gave us all a good insight into what happens to middle class, with the infamous 'Golgafrincham Ark Fleet, Ship B'.