Charterhouse Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 There is as yet no solution with regard to kick-starting the FTB market- WITHOUT drastically dropping prices OR Liar Loans.until that little problem is sorted out- it ain't sorted out You know, I know, we all know, that UK housing is waaay overpriced. . There is no sensible reason why anyone should be investing in UK Property right now unless they already have such considerable cash, investments and assets that it makes little odds to them. The answer to the FTB problem is that what you guys so eloquently call "slave boxes" will cheapen up to the point where they are available. In fact I think that's already getting there to be fair. Let me take an example of somewhere that I am semi-familiar with. Say Ipswich where there was a lot of BTL flat-building done. New flats there have now dropped to around the 100k mark for a 2 bed flat. For a single man on 30k or a couple with a combined income of 35k this is now affordable. FTBs can't afford to buy in Central London? So what. Why should they be able to. There are some areas that are too popular, desirable, populous, whatever you want to call it, for FTBs to be able to get on the ladder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingCharles1st Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 The answer to the FTB problem is that what you guys so eloquently call "slave boxes" will cheapen up to the point where they are available. In fact I think that's already getting there to be fair.Let me take an example of somewhere that I am semi-familiar with. Say Ipswich where there was a lot of BTL flat-building done. New flats there have now dropped to around the 100k mark for a 2 bed flat. For a single man on 30k or a couple with a combined income of 35k this is now affordable. FTBs can't afford to buy in Central London? So what. Why should they be able to. There are some areas that are too popular, desirable, populous, whatever you want to call it, for FTBs to be able to get on the ladder. Maybe the slaves should be trucked in from outlying regions every morning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charterhouse Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Maybe the slaves should be trucked in from outlying regions every morning? Look I appreciate what you are saying, and maybe you are correct, but take house prices back to whatever level you like, 2000, 1988, 1950, 1066, whatever, FTBs could not afford a property in Central London without some sort of compromise. What you are asking for is rather more than just a return to sanity, it's far beyond that and won't happen. That's why some of the thinking on this site is both unrealistic and unhelpful as advice to market participants. My girlfriend works in the City of London. She is a FTBer. She can't afford to live in town. She can however afford to live a 30 minute commute from her job by overland train. That means she can still work where she wants to and is not totally priced out of the market. Sure, it would be amazing if she could afford a penthouse in Covent Garden. That doesn't mean it will ever happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingCharles1st Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Look I appreciate what you are saying, and maybe you are correct, but take house prices back to whatever level you like, 2000, 1988, 1950, 1066, whatever, FTBs could not afford a property in Central London without some sort of compromise. What you are asking for is rather more than just a return to sanity, it's far beyond that and won't happen. That's why some of the thinking on this site is both unrealistic and unhelpful as advice to market participants. My girlfriend works in the City of London. She is a FTBer. She can't afford to live in town. She can however afford to live a 30 minute commute from her job by overland train. That means she can still work where she wants to and is not totally priced out of the market. Sure, it would be amazing if she could afford a penthouse in Covent Garden. That doesn't mean it will ever happen though. So what happens when you and the girlfriend decide to have kids? Hope you don't need a double salary just to pay for the mortgage, cos otherwise something will have to give. I have never said that central london should be utterly affordable- I have mentioned the South East. take a 45 min commuter ride out of London in any direction and you will still find 100K 1 bed SB's are the norm, not the exception. If people everywhere turned round and said ****** that- it would be better for EVERYONE- not just me and regular HPC crew, but in time your GF too. Maybe even you too if you stick around and allow yourself to feel the HPC love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammo Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Look I appreciate what you are saying, and maybe you are correct, but take house prices back to whatever level you like, 2000, 1988, 1950, 1066, whatever, FTBs could not afford a property in Central London without some sort of compromise. What you are asking for is rather more than just a return to sanity, it's far beyond that and won't happen. That's why some of the thinking on this site is both unrealistic and unhelpful as advice to market participants. My girlfriend works in the City of London. She is a FTBer. She can't afford to live in town. She can however afford to live a 30 minute commute from her job by overland train. That means she can still work where she wants to and is not totally priced out of the market. Sure, it would be amazing if she could afford a penthouse in Covent Garden. That doesn't mean it will ever happen though. It's sad though, isn't it? What is so good about London that makes it so expensive? I never got that. It's a nice place to visit, sure. And sure the jobs pay more. Hell, MPs get over £60k but they're in the top 3/100 of earners. Yet, look at all the social problems London has, that's not a place to bring up a family. Also, isn't it better to have some space? I could buy a 5 bedroom house in PE11 (Welland power knows what I mean) and a good one for £250k, starter homes obviously for £50-£70k. Yet what do you get in London, what quality? Lifestyle, which can't be gained from the odd weekend trip anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charterhouse Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 It WOULD be better for everyone. But that's a very socialist mindset, and although it would indeed be better for everyone, it will not happen in this country due to the inequality in incomes, in property ownership, and just due to the number of VIs. The entire country including the ruling party has it in their heads that high house prices are just great news. I know it's not true, obviously everyone else here does too, but as I say that doesn't mean it will happen. Hoping for something and believing it will happen are very different. I would be thrilled if property prices absolutely collapsed despite my large mortgage, but my mentality would be to buy up a number of holiday homes, country pads, places to turn into B&Bs, hotels etc etc. There are too many people like me out there for prices to ever actually collapse to that point, because the buyers will plough in before the real crash occurs. Thanks for your concern btw, as you say it's not an ideal situation but fortunately I am lucky enough to own so she will move in with me and then we will buy a place together outside town. If we didn't own now what would we do? Probably pool incomes and buy a bigger place near where she lives right now, I could handle a bit of inconvenience to live in a reasonable sized pad. "Slave boxes" such as where she lives right now are really not to my liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie-eater Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 London has a concentration of wealth. The wealthy don't want to sit on a packed train then force their way onto a stinking tube to get to the office. It all umbrellas out under that premise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairies Wear Boots Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 House prices are still not good value Charterhouse! Therefore they are likely to come down in price. Simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charterhouse Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 House prices are still not good value Charterhouse!Therefore they are likely to come down in price. Simples. Sentence number 1 in no way implies sentence number 2. Nice debating with you guys but it's past my bedtime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeine Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 (edited) It's sad though, isn't it? What is so good about London that makes it so expensive? I never got that. I've always wondered what attracts people to London like flies to a turd also. It's too crowded, houses are even more overpriced than the rest of the UK, there are weekly gunfights, half of it is run down, a lot of the people walk around constantly with a slight upturning of the nose ( ), I could go on... Why live in a slavebox, taking a packed, smelly train to work when I could live in a tolerable part of the UK, nicer house, more space with both less incoming and less outgoing? for what? Perhaps there's that carrot on a stick in London that promises that you, yes you, can maybe someday be one of those that gets the big bonuses... if your firm doesn't go bust or sack you for cheaper workers first, that is. Edited August 12, 2009 by codeine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 It's sad though, isn't it? What is so good about London that makes it so expensive? I never got that. It's a nice place to visit, sure. And sure the jobs pay more. ... Yet what do you get in London, what quality? Lifestyle, which can't be gained from the odd weekend trip anyway? I think you answered your own question I made the decision long ago that the extra money of working in London (or the USA for that matter) isn't worth the drop in lifestyle, so I'm not going to. But each to their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammo Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 "Slave boxes" such as where she lives right now are really not to my liking. Slave boxes sure as hell can't be to anyone's liking. These are slums, they don't attract money naturally, only a boom makes them attractive, and only for that time. That is why so many builders are now on the dole, they can no longer build the cheap stuff that no-one wants. Only the best survive a bust. There's this whole thing which property tv puts out that building is really quite simple, don't give up the day job and all. And if this is the case, why pay a bucketload for a "makeover"? Yet at the end of each property tv show, they show a nice done up house, same (or thereabouts) square footage, but for lots more. Well, you just look through the trimmings and pay the original price don't you? As a buyer I mean. Sellers quite often are not taunting a property for which intrinsic value has actually been added beyond the cosmetic, and indeed it is more often the case that as an older building, the roof has taken more wear and tear, the electrics are forever nearing their overhaul time, things don't stay mint forever. As long as houses are not being built brand new, their prices can only fall in a recession. Property makeover tv aside (cos anyone can surely do the same by now anyway without giving up their day job). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairies Wear Boots Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Sentence number 1 in no way implies sentence number 2.Nice debating with you guys but it's past my bedtime... In a crash they do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammo Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I think you answered your own question I made the decision long ago that the extra money of working in London (or the USA for that matter) isn't worth the drop in lifestyle, so I'm not going to. But each to their own. Ok, to put it this way: I get paid here in "the north" above UK average salary, not by an amazing amount, but whatever, it pays. Now, the Uk average salary doesn't seem to wash in London, as house prices are many factors above what they are here. So A house in London costs what? £200k for a terrace? A lowly starter home. Oop north a terrace home can be got for £70k, admittedly a shite one, but same for London I would guess (so £100k gets a good one here, >£200k in London right?). If the average wage in London were 2 or 3 times what they are here across the board (which they're not, they're skewed by the upper bands which are for intents and purposes above all of our worries), then even so, is it worth it? Premium on location is on average above benefits from working, for the most part. Of course there are some jobs which pay stupid money. Then again, these are not restricted to London either (see footballers for example), and with the financial industry in trouble will London remain a better paying city in comparison to other, equally large UK cities forever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charterhouse Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I've always wondered what attracts people to London like flies to a turd also. It's too crowded, houses are even more overpriced than the rest of the UK, there are weekly gunfights, half of it is run down, a lot of the people walk around constantly with a slight upturning of the nose ( ), I could go on... Why live in a slavebox, taking a packed, smelly train to work when I could live in a tolerable part of the UK, nicer house, more space with both less incoming and less outgoing? for what? Perhaps there's that carrot on a stick in London that promises that you, yes you, can maybe someday be one of those that gets the big bonuses... if your firm doesn't go bust or sack you for cheaper workers first, that is. We've had this debate a lot of times here but it still seems to work its way into a lot of threads. One thing that is always consistent is that the "anti-London" voices are always a lot more offensive about it than those who live in and love London. are about places outside London. Not everyone lives in a "slavebox" you know, I live in a beautiful open plan house in zone 1 with vaulted 20' ceilings, skylights and a small (of course!) garden that is a suntrap for most of the day and early evening. My commute takes me 20 minutes to my desk or 10 mins in a cab and I can be in a pub on the river within a 5 min walk of my front door. It certainly could be a whole lot worse. Personally speaking there's a fantastic pace to London that you don't get in most of the UK. I've been here 10 years and will stay at least another 4-5 before I "escape to the country". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign_of_the_times Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 where's the option for 'happy renting - why should I even think about buying.....ever' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign_of_the_times Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Personally speaking there's a fantastic pace to London that you don't get in most of the UK. I've been here 10 years and will stay at least another 4-5 before I "escape to the country". And you're welcome to it...........London is a shithole compared to where I am (Vancouver) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingCharles1st Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Personally speaking there's a fantastic pace to London that you don't get in most of the UK. I've been here 10 years and will stay at least another 4-5 before I "escape to the country". Oh god- not another Saturday morning Farmer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmperorHasNoClothes Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Only 40% of the population goes to uni. Of that, not all go on to graduate trainee schemes. In fact, I am almost certain it is a small minority. I didn't and don't know many who did. So what you are looking at is the starting wage of people who are interested in graduate training schemes (ie those interested in working for large organisations), manage to get on them and complete them. That is not a large number of people. So don't be silly. I agree I never made it into one of the graduate training schemes, despite getting a 1st. But then it seemed to be all about team play, public speaking, role play and communication rather than what you could do, so that was me scuppered as I just liked to get stuff done I just think there was too much pent up demand to be on a graduate training scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmperorHasNoClothes Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I live in a beautiful open plan house in zone 1 with vaulted 20' ceilings, skylights and a small (of course!) garden that is a suntrap for most of the day and early evening. From that I come to the obvious conclusion: you rent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charterhouse Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 From that I come to the obvious conclusion: you rent Nope, as I've said many times before, I own. This is the 3rd property I have owned in London, all have been at least as close as zone 2 and with a South-facing garden. There are some things people shouldn't compromise on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Get a life mate - and a house, if you can afford one. Nope, as I've said many times before, I own. This is the 3rd property I have owned in London, all have been at least as close as zone 2 and with a South-facing garden. There are some things people shouldn't compromise on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hip to be bear Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 . I've been here 10 years and will stay at least another 4-5 before I "escape to the country". Please keep away from my bit of the country, or you will bet a pitchfork between your lungs and your liver! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairies Wear Boots Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Hey hey Brucie, another knobbie laughing at people wanting prices to go back to at least affordable before buying one. Flame him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Good work Bruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.