Barclays Defies Curbs On City Bonus Culture

[@contradevian]

If Barclays is engaged in these games, particularly with the leverage in their business, their senior executives should form an orderly queue behind the crooks and fraudsters at JPM/ GS for the guillotine. This sort of illusory profit based on fraud inflicts economic harm on the rest of us. If guilty, they must be punished.

+1

There needs to be a highly detailed forensic and public analysis as to how this money is earned, and whether it represents value added for the country as a whole.

[R K]

Whilst your own outrage and that of others is understandable..... whay are the options from a consumer perspective... there are other societyies out there who deliver financial products at no profit... but actually they seem to be even worse value.... equally Barclays will (quite legitimately) argue that if they didn't have pay the bonuses they wouldn't have a business, the jobs might very well leave the Uk and with it the benefits of having those jobs ( which in a post industrial britain like it or not is very important)... so yes angst understandable but you can't put your money elswhere or access not for profit financial products without paying through the nose and you can't wish barclays dead etc without also voting for much higher taxes etc etc.

Could you please clarify for me what those benefits are?

*The bonuses drive house prices up apparently. So that's not a benefit for anyone other than a bankster.

*The taxpayer has lent/guaranteed around £1trn. That money could be borrowed/invested by the taxpayer to kick start god knows how many more productive jobs around the country. i.e. not just in those ridiculous buildings down on Canary Wharf. (you'll have noticed that the banks in Halifax, Newcastle, Bradford have been taken down).

* Many of the jobs are imported from the US/Continent - The cash ultimately leaves the country when these migrant workers p!ss off again. (most of them cried when they were asked to pay tax on their theft).

* If those geniuses that must be paid hundreds of Ks in bonuses left because the bonuses weren't paid, others would fill their place. It would take some degree of stupidity and inability to perform resulting in a £1trn support. So the argument that these are la creme de la creme is patent nonsense. They're the sh1t de la sh1t.

* You can't change the time zone. We'll always be located between Asia and the US.

* Criminality is wrong.

* Investment banking can and should be split from retail banking. If the Barcrap boys want to p1ss their own money up the wall and steal 'bonuses' this year and go bust 5 years down the line, stealing from shareholders and investors along the way that's up to them. It shouldn't have any bearing on the taxpaper.

* blah blah

Edited August 4, 2009 by Red Kharma

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

Whilst your own outrage and that of others is understandable..... whay are the options from a consumer perspective... there are other societyies out there who deliver financial products at no profit... but actually they seem to be even worse value.... equally Barclays will (quite legitimately) argue that if they didn't have pay the bonuses they wouldn't have a business, the jobs might very well leave the Uk and with it the benefits of having those jobs ( which in a post industrial britain like it or not is very important)... so yes angst understandable but you can't put your money elswhere or access not for profit financial products without paying through the nose and you can't wish barclays dead etc without also voting for much higher taxes etc etc.

The whole point is.....they have contrived a system where raping the people IS the only solution to them remaining in control. That's the whole fekkn point. They have a metaphorical gun pointed at everyones' heads. Cough up or the whole system fails. That's what they want you to believe anyway.

[THE BALD MAN]

Whilst your own outrage and that of others is understandable..... whay are the options from a consumer perspective... there are other societyies out there who deliver financial products at no profit... but actually they seem to be even worse value.... equally Barclays will (quite legitimately) argue that if they didn't have pay the bonuses they wouldn't have a business, the jobs might very well leave the Uk and with it the benefits of having those jobs ( which in a post industrial britain like it or not is very important)... so yes angst understandable but you can't put your money elswhere or access not for profit financial products without paying through the nose and you can't wish barclays dead etc without also voting for much higher taxes etc etc.

The bonus arguement is wholly bogus. There are plenty of competent people available to do just the same jobs at a lower price/

[Soldup08]

Could you please clarify for me what those benefits are?

*The bonuses drive house prices up apparently. So that's not a benefit for anyone other than a bankster.

*The taxpayer has lent/guaranteed around £1trn. That money could be borrowed/invested by the taxpayer to kick start god knows how many more productive jobs around the country. i.e. not just in those ridiculous buildings down on Canary Wharf. (you'll have noticed that the banks in Halifax, Newcastle, Bradford have been taken down).

* Many of the jobs are imported from the US/Continent - The cash ultimately leaves the country when these migrant workers p!ss off again. (most of them cried when they were asked to pay tax on their theft).

* If those geniuses that must be paid hundreds of Ks in bonuses left because the bonuses weren't paid, others would fill their place. It would take some degree of stupidity and inability to perform resulting in a £1trn support. So the argument that these are la creme de la creme is patent nonsense. They're the sh1t de la sh1t.

* You can't change the time zone. We'll always be located between Asia and the US.

* Criminality is wrong.

* Investment banking can and should be split from retail banking. If the Barcrap boys want to p1ss their own money up the wall and steal 'bonuses' this year and go bust 5 years down the line, stealing from shareholders and investors along the way that's up to them. It shouldn't have any bearing on the taxpaper.

* blah blah

+1

A spot on post. I would really like to see a proper political effort to reinstate Glass Steagall. It is obscene that these games are being played with depositors' cash.

[Guest X-QUORK]

What everyone seems to be forgetting is...

they're worth it.

[Cogs]

'nuff said.

[Injin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptomania

This disorder usually manifests itself during puberty and, in some cases, may never stop and lasts throughout the person's life.

People with this disorder are likely to have a comorbid condition, specifically paranoid, schizoid or borderline personality disorder.[1] Kleptomania can occur after traumatic brain injury and carbon monoxide poisoning.[2][3]

Kleptomania is usually thought of as part of the obsessive-compulsive disorder spectrum, although emerging evidence suggests that it may be more similar to addictive and mood disorders. In particular, this disorder is frequently co-morbid with substance use disorders, and it is common for individuals with kleptomania to have first-degree relatives who suffer from a substance use disorder.

[SpiceWorld!]

The bonus arguement is wholly bogus. There are plenty of competent people available to do just the same jobs at a lower price/

Where?

[Guest Parry aka GOD]

Where?

Asia.

[Guest Parry aka GOD]

Where?

Asia.

[@contradevian]

Asia.

Outsourcing that I would agree with.

Unless thats the game plan. Loot as much as possible before serious banking moves East.

[SpiceWorld!]

Asia.

Great. Where exactly?

[THE BALD MAN]

Where?

In the Uk. There is no rocket science in what any of these guys do..probably your average bookie could competently lay off the bets the banks place

[SMAC67]

The legacy of ENRON, lose money, bribe accountants, eh voila, big profit, bonuses all round. Dig deep lads because this time next year you will be bailing Barclays out, again!

Personally, I'm glad behavior hasn't changed, it's the only way to guarantee that the people will act, and when they have been pushed far enough, they lose jobs, lose homes, lose savings, lose their car, lose their family, they will act, and I wouldn't like to be in the way of this backlash. It is coming, and all the personal security hired by the banksters isn't going to prevent their demise.

[Bloo Loo]

Where?

all the laid off ones for a start.

[Injin]

The legacy of ENRON, lose money, bribe accountants, eh voila, big profit, bonuses all round. Dig deep lads because this time next year you will be bailing Barclays out, again!

Personally, I'm glad behavior hasn't changed, it's the only way to guarantee that the people will act, and when they have been pushed far enough, they lose jobs, lose homes, lose savings, lose their car, lose their family, they will act, and I wouldn't like to be in the way of this backlash. It is coming, and all the personal security hired by the banksters isn't going to prevent their demise.

They won't stop voluntarily, that's for sure.

[Joey Buttafueco Jr]

Which type of biscuit was chosen today? And who lost (won)?

[Y-QUERK]

Which type of biscuit was chosen today?

A soggy biscuit

[@contradevian]

Which type of biscuit was chosen today? And who lost (won)?

I take it this is some kind of variation on Liars Poker, but in the City its played with with Digestives rather than dollar notes?

[abharrisson]

This is all well and good so long as they aren't engaged in mass fraud and deception enabled by bribed/ malfeasant regulators and politicians.

But what are their assets really worth? The Market Ticker has an interesting rant at the FDIC and Sheila Bair - as part of this, Denninger claims that banks are marking bad assets at 100c on the dollar, and either not foreclosing (allowing delinquent mortgagors to live rent-free), or buying up the house at auction themselves (ie off themselves) to prevent any loss from being realised. And when the loss IS realised - when the bank is seized by the FDIC - what has been claimed to be a non-toxic asset ends up with a realisable value of 40c on the dollar or less.

If Barclays is engaged in these games, particularly with the leverage in their business, their senior executives should form an orderly queue behind the crooks and fraudsters at JPM/ GS for the guillotine. This sort of illusory profit based on fraud inflicts economic harm on the rest of us. If guilty, they must be punished.

But the game playing associated with the declaration of bad debts has already been laid bare as the least well kept secret in banking.... some banks over declare their losses in the current environment so that they can depress the value of shareholders (the govts in particular) position and equally speed the triggering of the govt backed insurance packages..... the govt will then get a lower price when they sell and apy for a larger proportion of bad debts along the way, and then once the dust has died down the bank will quietly write the over accural back as profit triggering a bonanza for then shareholders and staff....... what I mean is that over declaring bad debt is as much a game as underdeclaring or manipulating it in some other way.....the banks were all it prior to state involvement and its a recognised feature of banking.... theres nothing to stop one bank declaring all loans that are currently 4 months in arrears as 100% bad..... while another could call them 50% bad and a third only 10% bad.... all quite legal.... even though you'd be right if you thought the declarations were made with a "bigger picture" in mind.... unfortunately I feel with the banking system we have ( and with it unlikely to change) these sorts of things will always go on.

Some banks over declare in the good times so that they can underdeclare in the bad times and so deliver a more stable performance..... if only our dear chancellor had adopted the same approach with the nations finances we wouldn't be in this state...

[mdman]

But the game playing associated with the declaration of bad debts has already been laid bare as the least well kept secret in banking.... some banks over declare their losses in the current environment so that they can depress the value of shareholders (the govts in particular) position and equally speed the triggering of the govt backed insurance packages..... the govt will then get a lower price when they sell and apy for a larger proportion of bad debts along the way, and then once the dust has died down the bank will quietly write the over accural back as profit triggering a bonanza for then shareholders and staff....... what I mean is that over declaring bad debt is as much a game as underdeclaring or manipulating it in some other way.....the banks were all it prior to state involvement and its a recognised feature of banking.... theres nothing to stop one bank declaring all loans that are currently 4 months in arrears as 100% bad..... while another could call them 50% bad and a third only 10% bad.... all quite legal.... even though you'd be right if you thought the declarations were made with a "bigger picture" in mind.... unfortunately I feel with the banking system we have ( and with it unlikely to change) these sorts of things will always go on.

Some banks over declare in the good times so that they can underdeclare in the bad times and so deliver a more stable performance..... if only our dear chancellor had adopted the same approach with the nations finances we wouldn't be in this state...

Nonsense

Banks mark their assets at par

The ones that get seized by the FDIC are found to have assets worth only 40c on the dollar, even though they marked them to par the day before.

So all the banks that haven't been seized yet/ scrutinised - what are their assets really worth?

If the FDIC can determine what the true value of assets of seized banks is, an independent body sure as hell can do the same for the banks still out there.

[Goat]

My 2p worth (and I'm not a banker) but isn't all this furore about bankers bonuses and pay nothing but a useful distraction for the government.

Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingley and HBOS went down becuase of excessive mortgage lending (coupled with poor lending criteria) and over-reliance on the money markets.

Lloyds TSB and RBS each went down due to one single (insane) acquisition decision, namely HBOS and ABN Amro.

The recurring factor in all of the above is poor regulation; why didn't the regulators tell NR/HBOS to lend less or hold more capital. Why didn't the regulators start waveing red flags once RBS tried to buy ABN once the bubble had burst.

It seems to me very useful for Gormless Brown for various backbench (labour) MP's to criticise bankers salaries. If people stopped blaming the bankers perhaps they'd realise that the real architect of the (British) banking crisis was Gordon Brown himself.

[Joey Buttafueco Jr]

I take it this is some kind of variation on Liars Poker, but in the City its played with with Digestives rather than dollar notes?

I am talking about on here - a virtual soggy biscuit - where people drive each other into a state of ecstasy by coming up with more and more outlandish ******** that is patently factually incorrect but causes readers to erupt on their virtual biscuit.

[winkie]

Figures can be made to say anything...believe that, believe anything.