daniel stallion Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) I have an MBA and it has vastly improved me as a professional. I think it was extremely useful. I never expected that an MBA would immediately arm me with all the tools necessary to do everything in business. I expected that it would provide me with a framework to communicate more effectively with other areas of a business, speaking more of 'their language' and be able to contextualise my function within the scope of an organisation in order to think more broadly about what impact I could have on a business achieving its goals. It has. It has definitely helped me think more strategically rather than being entirely focused on tactics. I didn't expect (or get) a promotion on the back of it, but I think it gives me more options. It isn't for everyone, some people really don't need an MBA it will do nothing for them, others will just collect the certificate by learning how to pass exams, not acquiring the knowledge. This is no different to most post graduate and definitely under graduate study. It also exposed me to a certain amount of venom from various groups of people who believed that they were able to immediately characterize me simply because I had an MBA and felt it was their right to spew their venom. These people seemed to either be academic snobs, those bitter about society not recognising their innate superior abilities that transcend any so-called qualification, people with other qualifications which others didn't act impressed enough about to massage their ego or people that had considered themselves as 'real' business people that had worked their way through the trenches and had contempt for anyone who was trying to gain knowledge through anything but experience. The truth is that there are people with an MBA that are cocks and that ruin businesses, but guess what, there are medical doctors that kill people due to negligence. Why not dismiss all doctors as killers? Broadly categorising any group because of a qualification they hold is as stupid as a senior manager hiring an MBA to fulfil a function for which he or she is hopelessly under-experienced. I was a great employee and professional before my MBA, I remain the same person. However, I have a considerable amount of insight about other business functions which I did not have previously. For what it is worth I am also studying a Ph.D. and I can assure you that, in exactly the same way as any other qualification, it can produce anything from world changing academics to paper clutching time wasters. EDIT: For the academics out there ;-) I am using Google Chrome and the default spell check is US English. As a current student I am too lazy to change the settings or manually correct the mistakes it makes on my behalf. Edited February 17, 2009 by daniel stallion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 To be honest, if you want the best person possible get someone with a PhD in a proper subject. You mean like a Quants Analyst, say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Frankly this is all a truck load of ******** gordon prefers you use the term 'knowledge economy' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 gordon prefers you use the term 'knowledge economy' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) I have an MBA and it has vastly improved me as a professional. I think it was extremely useful. I never expected that an MBA would immediately arm me with all the tools necessary to do everything in business. I expected that it would provide me with a framework to communicate more effectively with other areas of a business, speaking more of 'their language' and be able to contextualise my function within the scope of an organisation in order to think more broadly about what impact I could have on a business achieving its goals. It has. It has definitely helped me think more strategically rather than being entirely focused on tactics. I didn't expect (or get) a promotion on the back of it, but I think it gives me more options. It isn't for everyone, some people really don't need an MBA it will do nothing for them, others will just collect the certificate by learning how to pass exams, not acquiring the knowledge. This is no different to most post graduate and definitely under graduate study. It also exposed me to a certain amount of venom from various groups of people who believed that they were able to immediately characterize me simply because I had an MBA and felt it was their right to spew their venom. These people seemed to either be academic snobs, those bitter about society not recognising their innate superior abilities that transcend any so-called qualification, people with other qualifications which others didn't act impressed enough about to massage their ego or people that had considered themselves as 'real' business people that had worked their way through the trenches and had contempt for anyone who was trying to gain knowledge through anything but experience. The truth is that there are people with an MBA that are cocks and that ruin businesses, but guess what, there are medical doctors that kill people due to negligence. Why not dismiss all doctors as killers? Broadly categorising any group because of a qualification they hold is as stupid as a senior manager hiring an MBA to fulfil a function for which he or she is hopelessly under-experienced. I was a great employee and professional before my MBA, I remain the same person. However, I have a considerable amount of insight about other business functions which I did not have previously. For what it is worth I am also studying a Ph.D. and I can assure you that, in exactly the same way as any other qualification, it can produce anything from world changing academics to paper clutching time wasters. EDIT: For the academics out there ;-) I am using Google Chrome and the default spell check is US English. As a current student I am too lazy to change the settings or manually correct the mistakes it makes on my behalf. I too have an MBA and I'd second your comments. For me an MBA allowed me to satisfy my curiosity as to what the main functions of a business do and why. Moreover it was the first time I was introduced to psychology and its uses in business especially marketing. Morpheus : Do you believe in fate, Neo? Neo : No. Morpheus : Why? Neo : Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life. Morpheus : I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know, you can't explain. But you feel it. You've felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there...like a splinter in you're mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about? Even as a child I too felt I deserved an explanation; I was already asking questions such as why I was being compelled to buy things I didn't especially want, why I was being compelled to behave in ways I didn't especially like and why I was being made to feel inadequate if instead I choose to be myself, on my terms. I knew something was wrong but I couldn't pinpoint what it was and no-one could provide an answer. It was only when the BBC showed Adam Curtis's The Century of the Self that I connected all the dots and saw the world in a new light, but I could not have done it without my MBA education. My MBA and Curtis's documentary were two halves of the same red pill. At around about the same time the BBC also showed that infamous edition of the Money Programme Eric Pebble so often refers to. It was the accumulation of this knowledge that led me to realise me something was truly rotten in the property market and eventually - after being a lone voice in the wind for many years - led me to this website. I'm glad I studied an MBA. As well as helping expose the conspiracy by the elite to control the masses, its helps me run my own business. Perhaps those mocking MBA's might agree with the Party's slogan, "War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength." Edited February 17, 2009 by Dave Spart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Buttafueco Jr Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You mean like a Quants Analyst, say? Are you planning a big street party if your IQ reaches double figures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Are you planning a big street party if your IQ reaches double figures? [Alabama accent] I guess I just aint smart enough to bring down the world economy. [/Alabama accent] Edited February 17, 2009 by Dave Spart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Are you planning a big street party if your IQ reaches double figures? The alzheimers isn't kicking in just yet so don't hold your breath waiting for it to fall to 99. In the meantime I'll throw one for you if yours ever comes up to 10. Edited February 17, 2009 by Dave Spart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) I have an MBA and it has vastly improved me as a professional. I think it was extremely useful... A well-written and accurate summary of the role and reality of MBAs, in my opinion; thanks Daniel. One would have to conclude that those who feel the need to show their contempt for people better-qualified than themselves without bothering to judge that person on their abilities and merits are probably either acting out of jealousy or are jumping to conclusions about that person's beliefs about themself and others (eg he thinks he's better than me) which might actually be entirely wrong. I actually had a discussion with someone the other day in which they confidently stated that they would more trust an (ilegally operating) unqualified plumber to connect their gas boiler than someone with a CORGI certificate because 'those people don't know anything'. When you think about it, this really is a bizarre and illogical way of looking at the world! I studied hard for my MBA but I don't believe that makes me a better person and neither that it means I know everything. It also doesn't earn you a huge salary anymorre (and hasn't done for many years); it's nothing more than proof that you hold certain knowledge which may or may not be useful in a certain business situation. Smith Edited February 17, 2009 by Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I think NLP is most likely junk science suborned by snake-oil management training charlatans. Concocting some new management training fad with a veneer of science to it, that's where the real money for old rope is. Erickosonian hypnosis however is incredibly powerful and Bandler and Grinder should be deeply ashamed for teaching the corporate degenerates any of it, even in it's watered down NLP format. It's supposed to be a therapy, not a tool to make poorly educated workforce afraid of their own shadows so you can financially exploit them. If you've ever met a Mczealot manager or one of those poor ******* who has had reprogramming done to them by someone with actual skills hired by asda/walmart/microsoft et al you'll know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John51 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 When working as a mate to an unqualified plumber we located a gas leak in a cellar that the week before had been passed as safe by a CORGI registered plumber even though gas could be smelt. The worst thing about NLP is that it's not total b0ll0cks, it does have some foundation in truth but the premise for its existence is wrong. They analysed successful people and distilled the outwards signs of leadership into a form that could be taught. Rather than help you develop the leadership qualities of say Sir Earnest Shackleton, you get taught to ACT AS IF you had those qualities. When in the front line with everything going pear shaped the true leaders wing it and thus hone their skills. The NLP clones get creative in explaining why it started in America. If a real worker takes the trouble to get an MBA then the market place benefits. It is the work avoiders getting them that is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Those who need to go and get an MBA shouldn't be allowed to get one - I was selected to go and ( I feel at least) a much better person for it so thanks to my employer and £18,000 pounds ( ten years ago ) I feel good about life. Wow! Reading that makes the cockney rhyming slang 'merchant banker' spring to mind and its for making statements like that you should have your MBA revoked. Putting your what you've said into other words "Only those who don't need MBAs should be allowed to get one". With doublespeak skills like that you should work for The Party. Edited February 17, 2009 by Dave Spart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Totally agree. Actually, the only thing more time wasting than an MBA is a part-time MBA. I did a part-time MBA and credit all my knowledge to practical experience and none to all those books of clichés that I was forces to devour. At least with a full-time MBA you get the opportunity to build a network. When doing part-time, you are too busy trying to juggle work and family as well. Ditto Mine was part time also. Fascinating AND useless, all at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 When working as a mate to an unqualified plumber we located a gas leak in a cellar that the week before had been passed as safe by a CORGI registered plumber even though gas could be smelt. Not sure whether you're joking or not(!) - hard to tell on forums sometimes - but assuming that you're not, what conclusion are you asking us to draw from this statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contractor Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Here we go: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finance...-recession.htmlA good article. In my view most of what has gone wrong with the system is down to the removal of common sense and experience which has replaced by faddish management theories from places like Harvard. During the boom companies have spent a fortune on: MBAs NLP training course Executive coaches Emotional Intelligence advisers. Frankly this is all a truck load of ******** SO "faddish" theories like TQM and people like Kaizen, Deming, and Juran are all a joke are they? I Don't think so. I come from a technical background and am in the last month of a specialist MBA. I took the MBA (an OU one) as I understood that to progress in my career an understanding of my environment (both professional and personal) is essental. I now understand a lot more about subjects like HR type issues, productivity, problem solving, personal motivation, financial techniques, time management, strategy, organisational structures and so on. A lot of this I understood to a certain degree due to vocational experience but doing a structured course has helped me no end. I've moved out of my comfort zone and broadened my horizons and I know I've learned a lot. How can that prove MBAs are a joke? Sure you can take an MBA, but if you were a nob before (for want of a better description), its highly likely you'll just end up as a nob with an MBA. It's not about the qualification, its about the person and how they apply it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Actually, Smith, Daniel and Dave, smart-arsed comments aside I can see reflections of my own thoughts in what you say: It has given me 'half the pill' and opened my eyes to what was really going on, and given me an even thicker skin vs the snake oil salesmen. The quality of the materials on the course were fabulous, although I did get to realize how shallow they were when they touched on something I already did. And I now know about a huge range of analytical and decision making tools most of which I have never seen used or had any employers interested in having them used (and when I used them I was told to feck right off by my employer, who then went on to do exactly what I said over the next few years. Of course it is possible and even likely that they had already decided to do this and just didnt want me spilling the beans. Like any higher degree, do it because you want to do it out of intellectual need, not in the expectation of great rewards. contractor: Me too, science PhD, did OU MBA in Tech to broaden my business understanding. Edited February 17, 2009 by General Melchett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdman Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Large companies are like cults and MBAs fuel the belief system - free markets are good - this company is successful - this company is a good example of a successful free market competitor Well what I learnt from my MBA is - free markets are good (so long as they are properly regulated to prevent market abuses) - most large companies are successful - many are successful through crony capitalism (bribing regulators/ politicians), which is the antithesis of free markets - while the global markets are ridden with crony capitalism and corruption at the moment, that may change in the future I suspect that without the MBA, my beliefs would have boiled down to a more simplistic - free markets are bad So I think I got some value (improved knowledge about the World) from mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) General, I salute you. (Now there's a new emoticon) Edited February 17, 2009 by Dave Spart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Sorry to burst your bubble but the truth is its not about the MBA its about the person behind it. On my course (top 5 school worldwide) there were some who were there to get the qualification and some who were there to learn - most didn't understand what was being put in front of them and learnt by wrote - others used it as a chance to see things from a different perspective. You do realise the original article was about how the top business school has turned out some of the most spectacular f*ck-ups of the last 100 years: Andy Hornby (former chief executive of HBOS) John Thain (ex Merrill Lynch) Hank Paulson (Goldman Sachs / US Treasury) Rick Wagoner (GM) Jeffrey Skilling (Enron) George W. Bush (ex US President) As an earlier poster pointed out, MBAs don't bestow any special powers on those that didn't have them before. They may however give the recipient an extra - undeserved - level of confidence; useful for the interview chair, hazardous when in a position of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman001 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I do one third of an MBA with the doctorate I'm doing - I've always wondered whether or not I would finish the rest later in life but by the sounds of things, probably best not to! The aim was to become an engineering manager rather than a designer - no respect for engineers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubuntu Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Thanks, I appreciate your reply. As far as I know, Eriksson was an expert hypnotherapist. It would be impressive if NLP could help treat schizophrenia as this is a very serious psychiatric condition. As I say, I have an open mind and am not denying the efficacy of these treatments as I am sure companies are not sinking thousands of pounds into NLP training for nothing. However, as far as I have seen, it has been all to do with peoples eyeballs waggling about, and american frat boys trying to become pick up artists. Where would you suggest as a reliable source to learn about NLP, and which courses would you recommend? A few years I went on a 3 day NLP course ran by Paul McKenna's company and one of the trainers was Richard Bandler, the co-creator of NLP,himself. The guy really is a genius and is worth seeing just for the entertainment he provides through his intricate trance inducing storytelling. Although there were some corporate attendees, as well as sponsored local authority employees!, the course was geared more towards personal development, learning hypnosis, NLP techniques to overcome phobias,fears,personal traumas eg child abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.steve Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) "Introducing NLP" Thanks for the info, I will cast an "eyeball" over it , then maybe sign up to Chain Retailer's course! I'll ditto the recommendation to read that book... though I advise you approach it with an open mind and as few expectations as possible. I've tried reading several books on the subject - and had to put most down having found them to be mostly gibberish - especially the ones claiming to have some medical or magical association - or any claiming to be training. The Introducing NLP book doesn't attempt to teach you how to practice NLP - but it did help me recognise specific techniques when used by others... which I found very interesting. I suspect that I pick up 'out-of-band' information when I listen to polished pitches... I suspect I just ignored such minutia previously - but I can't rule out the possibility that it had a minor subtle influence. I was surprised at how often I recognised NLP techniques being used in advertising and politics after reading the book. For NLP to be 'real' it only needs to fool some of the people some of the time. I think of it to be the linguistic equivalent to illusion or 'cons' that are not-unlike the 'three-shell-trick' (the one with - or without - a pea.) I think there are circumstances in which NLP could be used subtly without it being dishonest - but... I think... achieving this 'off the cuff' is extraordinarily difficult. I recognise NLP in use most often when the presentation is made by someone with detailed control of context and audience... where the audience isn't paying great attention to detail. I don't advise any training course... that's snake-oil IMHO. Edited February 17, 2009 by A.steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillageIdiot Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Thanks, I appreciate your reply. As far as I know, Eriksson was an expert hypnotherapist. It would be impressive if NLP could help treat schizophrenia as this is a very serious psychiatric condition. As I say, I have an open mind and am not denying the efficacy of these treatments as I am sure companies are not sinking thousands of pounds into NLP training for nothing. However, as far as I have seen, it has been all to do with peoples eyeballs waggling about, and american frat boys trying to become pick up artists. Where would you suggest as a reliable source to learn about NLP, and which courses would you recommend? There is absolutely no credible evidence that NLP or hypnotherapy have any benefits at all in schizophrenia. On an aside my MBA has been useful in providing me with tools to help me look (and do) at my job in a different way, my brief taster of NLP was that it is essentially witchcraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) I had this useless manager once, She was sent away for some "management training" (er why is she a manger then?) and came back in doctored/brainwashed by the virtues of life coaching. She started off by prattling on about us all being onions..... Edit to add MBA tutors are like Life coaches, no better then rip off physic readers imho!! Edited February 17, 2009 by bloodsucked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman001 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 My reason for continuing to do a part-time MBA would be to learn more abuot economics, finance etc - in fact I'm reading a book just now called 'Ten Day MBA' which seems to sum it all up pretty well! So what's the consensus? Waste of time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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