Hope

A friend's company does some print work for Tesco (not directly) and I can confirm they are absolute ba**ards. A couple of recent tricks have been to want work quickly, agree to sign off the purchase order quickly and then....not, another was to declare some goods faulty on delivery, replaced goods then delivered 'in person', then declare that a small minority were 'unfit for purpose' so insist on them ALL being redone whilst conveniently wanting to change the artwork at the same time. I will not shop there out of principle.

Not the same industry but still manufacturing http://www.kilmarnockstandard.co.uk/ayrshi...81430-22343157/ I don't understand why our own government are throwing money at the banks but would rather take business away from a UK supplier :angry: My husband has run his own print company for 20 years and things are absolutely dire out there !

Small world, my husband owned a cottage in Wormley Close during the last crash which he refused to sell (against my better judgement & I was an estate agent at the time) for £85k as it just covered his mortgage. He sold it a year or so later for £75k....oops. Poor love was heartbroken as he'd spent 2 years gutting & virtually rebuilding it, the buyers even insisted he leave the brand new sofas as part of the deal.

For goodness sake, people who have worked hard, brought their families up and want to stay in their homes aren't hogging anything, that attitude might be acceptable for singles or couple occupying larger council homes on the basis that they never owned the property but forcing owner occupiers to sell up against their will isn't the answer, they didn't cause this god awful situation. The shameful thing about stamp duty is that it stops people moving sideways, it's alright to say that if you can afford £300k then you can afford the £6k or whatever but if you want to be sensible and not take on a bigger mortgage then moving costs have to be saved for & it takes a lot of savings to cover a £10k moving bill to move from one house to another of exactly the same value i.e needing to move to a different area.

I have lived in Chingford all my life and was (for my sins) an estate agent during the last crash. I can't tell you HOW stubborn the vendors (especially the older ones) were regarding dropping their asking prices, it took a looooong time for reality to hit home. I have done very basic tracking myself for a year or so on rightmove and have noticed 2 things 1) Last year there were around a handful of flats below £200k, now there are 10 pages odd, 2) Last year there were a handful of houses below £250k, now there are around 50 odd with a couple being below £200k, haven't looked at upper end of market. Chingford is a strange area, identical house in our road sold for £550k about 4 years ago and blow me down ours was still around that value up to last year, so goodness knows what happened to the boom in our little bit of Chingford, think it forgot about us but not moving so couldn't give a monkeys really.

What a great thread, I don't contribute often but read regularly and would like to add something. I'm not at all a religious person but having watched my children reach their early twenties I have found recently that I've been saddened by some of their values and attitudes to life, work, family etc. Don't get me wrong, they're basically good kids but I have felt for a long time that as a parent I have been up against a constant tidal wave of things that seemed to work against the values I worked hard to instill in them. These things have included Big Brother (the programme) / peer pressure / consumerism / other parents that wanted to be their kid's friend more than their parent etc etc. I have felt relieved that my parents live locally and have often turned to them for support and advice over the years and they have been wonderful at being the intemediary in trying times. We visit Spain a lot and I am only recently beginning to realise that it is more than the sun and outdoor existence that makes people smile there. It is the feeling of community and respect that seems to fill every corner. Restaurants are full of families and often include Nan and Grandad, the kids are noisy but never seem to be unruly. Elderly people are always sitting on benches enjoying a natter and don't seem to bat an eyelid at passing a large group of teenagers because there is no need to. The recent talk of the town is a 'visiting statue' and everyone will be out in the streets celebrating together. These things got me pondering about religion and consequently, as mentioned earlier, the religious/community values that it seems to instill. This brought me naturally to ask myself the question of whether it was possible to have a respected and respectful society with decent values without religion, on the basis that it does not play a large part, if any, of most of our daily lives anymore. My next thought was that I sincerely hoped it was possible because the other end of the extreme doesn't bare thinking about (9/11) and religion has been the cause of many wars. Then it occurred to me that it maybe what happens is that when a society 'lets go' of it's religion, it stands to reason that it is no longer considered important to that society, creating a vacuum that will be filled. My summation, rightly or wrongly, is that that vacuum has indeed been filled in a number of ways but 2 spring to mind. 1) Other religions will prosper 2) Our own society will find another 'God' to worship. Has this not happened, is consumerism / celebrity worship / money not the new God for many. Maybe , just maybe the first commandment about not putting any other God before me (which I hadn't remembered before seeing it posted earlier) has a broader meaning and was talking about just that. I'm neither an atheist nor a church goer, just a Mum who has found that bringing up children was harder than expected but for totally unforseen reasons i.e I didn't think society would make it harder.

Not sure if this helps you at all but we have an apartment in Spain and I wouldn't say property is through the floor but I have kept a very close eye on things and these are my observations. 1) Property has been harder to sell for 12 to 18 months now. 2) Sellers that want to sell are being more realistic now (lots aren't obviously) and prices are down, say 10% 3) Construction work where we are has slowed right down and as the developers own the land I understand they will NOT drop prices but just sit tight until things pick up again, which is ok because I guess it gives those that want to sell a bit less competition. 4) I wonder if the Spanish banks knew what was coming as buyers were offered virtually no questions asked mortgages on 80% of the purchase price but around the middle of last year I noticed some buyers were suddenly not being offered the 'automatic' mortgages they had been assured of when they paid their 20% deposits and signed contracts. Add to that the fact that British buyers can't easily get finance in the UK let alone in Spain then I guess prices won't be heading North any time soon. Hmmm, so yes, maybe Spain is actually a precursor to the Brit market.

Sorry if I'm reading this wrong but although I understand the point you're making, is it entirely relevant ? i.e if you take a 25 year repayment mortgage in 3 years time as opposed to now, then the only difference will be that 1) you will have finished 3 years later (a definite) 2) you might have been able to get it cheaper in 3 years time (a possibility). Therefore, to get a true differential, would you not purely look at the possible 'loss' in value in comparison to the rent you would pay out, as those first few years of the repayment mortgage have to start somewhere. Oh yes, it also can't be underestimated the personal value of owning your own home (if that is what is important to you) 3 years earlier.

My father approached HSBC last week to see about an overdraft facility of around £25,000. They had one for years, only ever used it once so closed it, business running for over 10 years as a partnership with both homeowners owning their homes (considerable value) outright. The bank rang him back and said he wasn't going to like it, damned right, he didn't. They wanted to send someone down to the business to inspect it and the accounts, then they 'might' arrange the overdraft but it would be at 7% over base, my father told them to stuff it.

I've learned that apparrantly I'm one of those rare individuals who stayed at home to look after the kids but have always been frugal and just paid the mortgage off 14 years early, despite my hub's best efforts in the early years to 'spend before you earn', he's now a happy hub. I've learned that the housing boom does me no favours at all because instead of finally it being my turn to spend spend spend, I still have to save save save in order for my kids to ever stand a chance of buying their own home. I've learned that most of my friends have no idea about 'real' profit. One springs to mind who reckoned they only had their bigger house because they moved 3 times, doing up and selling on. When questioned on the end profit of 3 sales, it equated to the same profit had they have sat in their first house and let HPI do it's thing, they looked faintly bemused. I've learned that I need to know more about investing but my little brain goes foggy when I try to understand anything outside of mortgages and ISA's. What I've always known is that debt is a burden and hitting savings targets is quite fun, bit like a 'me v it battle'.

I wouldn't buy anywhere be it Uk or France at the moment but then I'm fairly cautious. If you buy there and find you hate it and prefer to be in the Uk then you could be stuck and buying and selling costs are high, much higher than UK. Why don't you rent over there and see if you like it first.

Hi all, posted a few times quite a while ago but find the aggression a bit daunting at times so reverted to lurking. As an ex EA I decided to post today on the honest EA thread, so thought I'd say hello here too, though not sure if I will go back to lurking again.

I'm no expert but I do have an apt in Spain bought in 2003. I am thinking of selling, have done my research and can confirm in Costa De La Luz that prices have dropped some 15 to 20,000 euros from the tail end of last year, which according to lots of sources on the ground was the peak. Anyone buying abroad should realise that you need at least 30% increase in prices, to buy, furnish, sell and then break even.

Hmm absolutely and I was one of those, that is until I got continually insulted by one member. I enjoy reading, learning and digesting what I read here but it still sticks in the throat to have done nothing but work, earn, save, mind my own business and then be slated by some narrow minded folk about hoping we rot in hell and die in our own wotsit after stealing from the young. I just have to keep reminding myself that I, as a parent am all for a HPC. I admit I did nothing particularly wonderful to achieve such wealth, which incidentally means naff all to me until I die (unless I want to take on more debt by MEWing) but equally I did nothing to create HPI either. Thankfully the majority of people are not bitter and twisted and can see that for themselves.

Having got my kids to the ripe old ages of 20 and 22 I can tell you that the last 10 years seemed like a constant battle, even my parents have said to me that they would not like to bring up children today, it is so much harder in lots of ways I never expected. From having to examine league tables, try to steer your kids away from kids with parents who basically don't have a clue and couldn't give a toss, keeping them away from drugs and sex (not at 16, try flaming 12 to 14), to trying to keep them motivated in an 'everyone is the same' culture

Interesting thought but one I don't personally agree with, maybe because I have always been very careful with money. Interest wise, mortgages are just about the cheapest form of borrowing money. If I wanted a £10k kitchen I would have no hesitation in putting it on my mortgage and paying off the debt quickly should I feel able/want to. Also don't tar everyone who MEWs with the same 'stupid' brush, there are stupid ones and there are ones who have paid their mortgages off early and can easily afford to extend the loan.

I got a 4 pint carton of milk the other day and when I put it in the fridge I had to take a second look, it was smaller than the one already in there. When I looked at the label the new carton was in fact 2 litres (about 3 1/2 pints) but I'm sure it was the same price.

All HPI has done is enabled people to take out a loan on their own home, they are the ones who have to service the debt, so unless the young and poor are paying their loan for them how exactly have they slaved away to give to the rich. Also, I'm not surprised that wealthy foreigners have bought in Uk, our purchasing costs are ridiculously cheap compared with say France or Spain where you pay 10-12% in tax of the purchase price however much a property costs.

I can see the sense in that BUT isn't Europa's point that, using that example Buy at £100k, sell at £110k and trade up to £220k, total = £210k Delay buying and your total will be minimum = £220k Obviously if house prices fall / stay static and you can save more than £10k then waiting is the best call.....now, where's that crystal ball.

Thanks 'Bugged Bunny' and 'Taeper', just got back from a nice meal with hub and 2 kidults. I asked them in all honesty when they would like to move out, start a family etc. Son was a bit 'er, I dunno', younger daughter was 'well, I'm in no hurry, why rent, we have such freedom at home but I'd like to think about buying a place with a partner maybe at about 25 and kids by 30'. Ok, I said, so that gives you 6 years, so don't you think going off travelling for a year might put you a bit behind those plans, I said. But you do what your mates do and I know one thing, I will never go into debt, she said. So you do kinda think that your twenties are for enjoying yourself, I said, yes, she said, but can you see that you're then starting the process that we started at 20 a hell of alot later, I said, yes, she said. Then we got to talking about the millenium and she couldn't remember what we did, I told her we stood in the garden watching the fireworks....'but that's what I mean, you were only 38, should've been out having fun' she said. 'Um yes hon, but we were waiting for 2 young teenagers to come home' I said 'oh, yes, forgot that' she said. I had to point out to her that ok, maybe she wants a more exciting life but we started young and now look forward to being a bit free er (how do you spell that) in our late fourties, you may think post 40 isn't worth living but I can assure you, once you get there it most certainly is. Please note that I am fully aware that most of you on the board are far more mature than my two kidults but I'm just trying to reiterate the point that saving, having kids etc all takes time and the later you start planning, saving, working, the later you finish, as I said 'time waits for no man'.

Hello again, it's my birthday so lets all be nice I've learned quite alot from reading the forum and most of it interesting stuff. It's of no help really but I do believe that the current generation has got the brunt from two main things. 1) Property prices are ridiculously high, no argument. 2) They mostly (ok, not all) started to think about buying a house very very late compared to alot of older people, although probably not the very old, like my parents who were first generation buyers at about 30. I do not blame anyone for thinking about it late, it's a different world out there today and most would admit that compared to how we lived it is a consumer obsessed society in comparison. The biggest con in my book is further education, it used to be the preserve of the highly intelligent, the minority did it (so no need for fees) and their payback for starting work years after the rest of us was higher wages, fair enough. Well, I'm sorry but pushing everyone into further education was always going to have repurcussions, so now they do it because employers want degrees for jobs that do not require degrees, unless you are looking at a profession you should not need a flippin degree, you start work 3 to 5 years later, with a huge chunk of debt and so on a so forth, well hello, time waits for no man. So there you have it, a double whammy to contend with in my humble opinion. I only say save as much as you can because there really is nothing else you can do but to save and wait for the bubble to burst and if it doesn't well....cross that bridge if and when you have to. Good luck.

Ahh, but surely that is just Nimbi ism (sorry, can't spell it) in another form, in other words, now I've got what I want I'm alright Jack and buggar you.

I'm still trying to understand it in the context of the argument of shortage of supply being the reason for HPI and forgive me, but the old brain is trying hard to keep up here. I am saying that round here people are paying £300 to £500k for luxury flats and maybe £220k ish for Barret type builds when there are 3 bed semis for sale at £250k ish, so they seem to choose them yes ? otherwise surely the houses would be 3 bed semis would be dearer. I can honestly say that I know of a new development half an hour away, still easily commutable to the city where you can buy a 3 bed house for £200k ish, so why buy a pokey one or two bed flat instead. Also, out of interest, if a builder applies to build flats is it the builder or the council who decide whether they can be luxury ones or Barret type ones or is that just down to whoever buys the plot in the first place.

Ok, I think I see where you're coming from, land with planning permission has always been dearer than that without, is that what you mean by 'government-controlled cost of land' ? sorry if it is a daft question. I don't think you can ever do away with planning permission, relax it yes but do you really think that would make people sell land for less money, surely builders would then just buy up swathes of it to make even more profit.

But this is what I don't understand, in a free market, who is going to build houses cheaper than the going rate, so they won't be any more affordable. If you're saying that the only reason they are dear is because of shortgage of supply then why would builders be building flats (round here anyway) that are practically the same price as houses and still selling them. I wouldn't mind the governments free money with IT and Stamp duty quite so much if it was used to indeed build quality starter homes.