What happens if the immigrants leave?

[ccc]

Ok simple question - do you think the majority of EE coming to work in the UK are law abiding citizens ? 

[Confusion of VIs]

6 minutes ago, ccc said:

6 minutes ago, ccc said:

Tell us about your time working in the fields picking fruit. Fire away. 

And no - sitting at a desk compiling a spreadsheet on the subject doesn't count. 

Tell us about your time working in the fields picking fruit. Fire away. 

And no - sitting at a desk compiling a spreadsheet on the subject doesn't count. 

Visiting farms to see working conditions/practices after being called in to assist with an investigation into a complaint about some less than enlightened gang masters. I was a Director at the time so no time at all spent compiling spreadsheets.  

 

[Jugador]

12 hours ago, ccc said:

Working for a gang master ? We're talking about people going to a different country to do seasonal work. I have done this. You have not. 

You have though apparently worked in an office and undertaken some random sample of people doing this under a certain scheme - and tried to use this to determine what people doing this work today under a completely different scheme would act.

You're talking nonsense. Everyone reading this thread can see it. 

You're digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole - and it's getting rather embarrassing.

Actually, I agree with him and I think you're the one talking nonsense.

Maybe in future you might check with everyone before speaking for them, or just not do it.

Just a suggestion.

[Jugador]

24 minutes ago, ccc said:

Ok simple question - do you think the majority of EE coming to work in the UK are law abiding citizens ? 

I do.

Is this a trick question?

[wherebee]

On 1/12/2017 at 9:26 AM, Pieman Pieface said:

Dunno where you live but in london most minimum wage roles, in shops, bars, warehouses etc are seemingly done by immigrants. If they leave then someone has to do those roles. Will Brits want to do that? I'm not so sure.

when I was 15-21 I did a mixture of bar work in London and office temping jobs.  It helped me, as a Londoner, get used to regular work practices and gave me great life skills for dealing with people from all social strata.  It covered my train fare and gave me a bit of spending money before I got a proper job.

Now pubs in London can use cheaper immigrant labour (cafe's too) which means the youth of the UK just sit at home playing Xbox and wanking, as there is not the same work/reward ratio.  Those formative years of learning how to work are never got back.  Very destructive for the host society.

[wherebee]

On 1/15/2017 at 4:51 AM, Confusion of VIs said:

Yes and was debunked at the time, it ignored the fact that nearly 30% of food bought from supermarkets is thrown away.

 

The food one, I do not know about.

I was a report on toilet paper sales and sewage volumes.  Hard to fake/inflate that material.  That estimated 75-80 million in 2005.

[nnails]

As student like many people i have done a few jobs between 16 and 21. I have worked picking tomato's , fair ground , waiter and various other jobs.

Picking tomato's as summer job no longer exists for students because of the polish , working on fairground is still option but they do the zero hour contract stuff and send you home when its quiet. If you send people home loyalty is lost and they dont turn when its busy. Being waiter is not best job competition from Europeans.

For me its just wrong. We have asset stripped the polish of there best people and we have put our young people out of the job in the process.

 

 

 

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, wherebee said:

The food one, I do not know about.

I was a report on toilet paper sales and sewage volumes.  Hard to fake/inflate that material.  That estimated 75-80 million in 2005.

I missed that one.

Sewage I get, but toilet paper? From the amount my kids use you would probably conclude we were a HMO with about 30 people living here.

[the gardener]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I missed that one.

Sewage I get, but toilet paper? From the amount my kids use you would probably conclude we were a HMO with about 30 people living here.

?

Are they folders or scrunchers? Folders are more economical with big roll, though I suppose either way 100% gets flushed down the toilet.

I read that Slough estimated their actual population to be 15% higher than the last census based on sewage volumes.

 

[ccc]

7 hours ago, Jugador said:

Actually, I agree with him and I think you're the one talking nonsense.

Maybe in future you might check with everyone before speaking for them, or just not do it.

Just a suggestion.

What's your point ?

Please feel free to actually reply to anything I have stated rather than just saying I'm talking nonsense. 

[ccc]

7 hours ago, Jugador said:

I do.

Is this a trick question?

If they are generally law abiding then if they have a stamp in there passport stating "you must leave by xx/xx/xx" then they will.

If they have no stamp and can stay for as long as they wish they will not.

Basic common sense lesson #1 . 

Someone on this thread is trying to compare the two "like for like".

It's laughable.

[ccc]

8 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Visiting farms to see working conditions/practices after being called in to assist with an investigation into a complaint about some less than enlightened gang masters. I was a Director at the time so no time at all spent compiling spreadsheets.  

 

So you've never traveled to another country to do seasonal agricultural work - and i have.

Let's just agree on this point. You have no clue on the realities of this and I do.

"Been there - done that" and all.

[Confusion of VIs]

2 minutes ago, ccc said:

So you've never traveled to another country to do seasonal agricultural work - and i have.

Let's just agree on this point. You have no clue on the realities of this and I do.

"Been there - done that" and all.

Ignoring the point that its completely irrelevant, where did I say that. I did spend sometime grape picking in France a long time ago but strangely didn't think that it qualified me to pontificate about the how the Australian wine industry operates.   

Anyway as I said its time to stop debating with someone who has fixed views and no knowledge of what they are talking about.   

[Jugador]

2 hours ago, ccc said:

What's your point ?

Please feel free to actually reply to anything I have stated rather than just saying I'm talking nonsense. 

My point was that although you said everybody reading the thread could see that he was talking nonsense, I have been reading the thread and don't think he's talking nonsense. 

Surprised you missed that TBH. In my brief time here I've worked out I must keep it simple, but clearly I must try harder.

[ccc]

6 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Ignoring the point that its completely irrelevant, where did I say that. I did spend sometime grape picking in France a long time ago but strangely didn't think that it qualified me to pontificate about the how the Australian wine industry operates.   

Anyway as I said its time to stop debating with someone who has fixed views and no knowledge of what they are talking about.   

Can we get one thing straight here.

You are seriously making a straight comparison between people who get a visa that says you must leave on date xx with people who can come and stay as long as they wish ?

Can you just confirm this please as it's actually quite difficult to comprehend how someone could have this view.

[canbuywontbuy]

Surely seasonal workers who are on a specific visa to work in a season are not the same as an EU individual who doesn't need a visa to work in the UK at all, and can claims all sorts of benefits? These two things are incomparable.  Why are they being compared? EE workers have been coming to the UK since 2004 (Poland at least) and doing "seasonal" jobs, except they don't leave.  They stay.  Because they can.   CofVI showing stats on seasaonal workers on seasonal visas leaving the UK is irrelevant.  EE workers don't need a special government program - they just hop on a magic bus, and come over and work.  And stay.  And claim all kinds of top-up benefits.  And have kids.  And have even more tax credits.  Apples (seasonal workers,  seasonal visa/work program, no ticket for the benefits buffet) and oranges (no visa required, golden ticket for the benefits buffet).  CoVI, why do you compare apples to oranges?

Edited January 18, 2017 by canbuywontbuy

[ccc]

I've asked similar, and so have others - but apparently I don't have a clue and I am suddenly some sort of love child for Russia Today news.

It's completely bizarre. 

[Pieman Pieface]

On 16/01/2017 at 5:17 PM, wherebee said:

when I was 15-21 I did a mixture of bar work in London and office temping jobs.  It helped me, as a Londoner, get used to regular work practices and gave me great life skills for dealing with people from all social strata.  It covered my train fare and gave me a bit of spending money before I got a proper job.

Now pubs in London can use cheaper immigrant labour (cafe's too) which means the youth of the UK just sit at home playing Xbox and wanking, as there is not the same work/reward ratio.  Those formative years of learning how to work are never got back.  Very destructive for the host society.

I think things are different now. Who are the Brits who will be able to work in London for minimum wage jobs whilst also living in London. Its basically impossible unless you live at home with your family (unlikely as they've all moved out to the suburbs)  or are a student up to your eyeballs in debt, or you go on housing benefits.

Most EE'ers I know ended up living in absolute squalor, 10 to a bedroom, in crappy Hounslow flats, living out of a sleeping bag, and paying for it out of their crappy minimum wage waiters / bar person wages. I don't see many Brits doing that. 

House prices have essentially priced young brits out of the low wage market.

[SarahBell]

On 10/01/2017 at 5:00 PM, CunningPlan said:

 How will this effect housing / NHS / schools / wages?

Any thoughts? 

The one next to my mum in rural midlands will maybe take his new wife and three children with them. He doesn't work. She is trained as a doctor in her home country but hasn't worked here as one as she has had two children in fairly short succession and hasn't finished whatever the conversion course is. She was doing cleaning work. 

Three less kids in overcrowded primary school.
5 less people registered at doctors
1 gravid female less in maternity.
Less translation services for NHS.
One empty council house.
Less tax credits and CB, HB paid out.



 

[Pieman Pieface]

4 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

The one next to my mum in rural midlands will maybe take his new wife and three children with them. He doesn't work. She is trained as a doctor in her home country but hasn't worked here as one as she has had two children in fairly short succession and hasn't finished whatever the conversion course is. She was doing cleaning work. 

Three less kids in overcrowded primary school.
5 less people registered at doctors
1 gravid female less in maternity.
Less translation services for NHS.
One empty council house.
Less tax credits and CB, HB paid out.



 

I worked with a major cleaning company once. The CEO told me he outright would never hire British cleaners because they are lazy and have too high an opinion of themselves to want to do the job properly. So that Polish doctor who was prepared to work harder than any Brit means that the job will probably be taken up by someone from Africa or Asia. 

 

[Riedquat]

4 minutes ago, Pieman Pieface said:

I worked with a major cleaning company once. The CEO told me he outright would never hire British cleaners because they are lazy and have too high an opinion of themselves to want to do the job properly. So that Polish doctor who was prepared to work harder than any Brit means that the job will probably be taken up by someone from Africa or Asia.

Lazy and with too high an opinion or just won't accept being worked hard and treated like crap?

There's possibly a bit of both but how about we fix our own problems instead of putting up with them and piling ever-increasing numbers of people in?

[Pieman Pieface]

1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

Lazy and with too high an opinion or just won't accept being worked hard and treated like crap?

There's possibly a bit of both but how about we fix our own problems instead of putting up with them and piling ever-increasing numbers of people in?

Agree there needs to be limits, but at the same time there is clearly a 'I'm too good for this shit' mentality throughout us Brits which means we aren't going to work hard for crap money. Somebody has to though.

[One-percent]

3 minutes ago, Pieman Pieface said:

Agree there needs to be limits, but at the same time there is clearly a 'I'm too good for this shit' mentality throughout us Brits which means we aren't going to work hard for crap money. Somebody has to though.

Not really. A full time job should pay enough to support yourself without support from the state. Most jobs, not just crap ones clearly do not enable this. This is the root of the problem. Fix this and people might be more willing to do menial work

it says something about how broken the system is when a qualified doctor is better off in a foreign land away from their support network, cleaning for others

 

systemic failure  

[Maynardgravy]

3 hours ago, One-percent said:

Not really. A full time job should pay enough to support yourself without support from the state. Most jobs, not just crap ones clearly do not enable this. This is the root of the problem. Fix this and people might be more willing to do menial work

it says something about how broken the system is when a qualified doctor is better off in a foreign land away from their support network, cleaning for others

 

systemic failure  

This is absolutely correct. 

My Mum was a cleaner (part time) and my dad was a postman (all the hours he could get hold of). They had four kids and managed to pay off a mortgage for a modest three-bedroom semi in Brum by the time he was 50.

Now I have two degrees and I'm struggling to have the same standard of living(I certainly couldn't afford four kids).

Have Brits become lazy all of a sudden? Has their DNA changed that quickly?

What incentive would a British cleaner have now? I'm betting that the polish cleaners are incentivised somehow... I wonder what that could be 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Maynardgravy

[One-percent]

3 minutes ago, Maynardgravy said:

This is absolutely correct. 

My Mum was a cleaner (part time) and my dad was a postman (all the hours he could get hold of). They had four kids and managed to pay off a mortgage for a modest three-bedroom semi in Brum by the time he was 50.

Now I have two degrees and I'm struggling to have the same standard of living(I certainly couldn't afford four kids).

Have Brits become lazy all of a sudden? Has their DNA changed that quickly?

What incentive would a British cleaner have now? I'm betting that the polish cleaners are incentivised somehow... I wonder what that could be 

I remember when being a postie was Sen as a good gig (as the yoof would say today). Talking to one years ago, final salary pension, worked mornings do that he was free to do other work later in the day.  He was a cabbie in London, so kerching. 

On the radio, lbc, the other night a bin man was being interviewed and he said that it was the kind of job that lots tried to get into because of the pay and conditions.

like you, I'm loaded up,with credentials, a doctorate in my case, and I earn shite money.  Honestly. 

Its not about work,ethic and being lazy, it's about reward. Pure and simple.  I've said this before, successive governments have worked hard to dismantle the social contract between state/capital and workers.  There is no wonder that people just give the system the two fingers and do as little as possible.