How Old Are You?

[Cogs]

Early 30s (and feeling a bit sensitive about it right now), do remember the 80s recession though. Grew up in a northern industrial town.

I remember being asked by our teacher what we wanted to be when we grew up.

Each kid began with a variation on "If I'm lucky enough to have a job when I'm older, I'd like to be a..."

Poor old teacher started crying before the end and had to leave the room.

Wasn't so bad for us actually, thats just how we thought it was supposed to be.

[if I can editorialise a bit here, welfare dependency doesn't start with people deciding to be bone idle and screw the system. It begins with a class of really quite small children who think they have more chance of being an astronaut than getting a steady job on the checkout at Woolies].

Edited October 25, 2008 by Cogs

[Starcrossed]

Great thread.

38, remember friends of family being made redundant in the early 80s recession but otherwise not so terribly affected.

Parents and in-laws almost lost their home near the beginning of the 90s recession but just scraped through. Personally starting career in the early 90s but don't work in a profession that is prone to recession.

Just a thought about the thread - isn't there a kind of confirmation bias about asking 'what do you remember about the recessionary 70s, 80s and 90s?'.

We would all give very different answers if we were simply asked 'what do we remember about the 70s, 80s and 90s. As soon as the R word is mentioned we dig out our memories of the very toughest moments of the toughest days rather than the good bits that happened on the same days.

No biggie, I get the point of the thread and all and have really enjoyed it.

Edited October 25, 2008 by Starcrossed

[bendy]

27.

how was i effected by the recessions.

80's no idea.

90's was the difference between me inherting a multi million pound business or not (turned out not )

but life goes on hey.

i'm as prepared as the next tfh though should it go completely tits up.

[Guest AuntJess]

I'm 37 and in 1987 I started working in a Building Society.

At the tender age of 16 and 10 months I went into the mortgage applications department. I worked through the end of MIRAS and dealt first hand with the guzumping that took place, contract races, people jumping up and down for revised offers and advance cheques in order to secure a house.

Stayed there until 1997 and saw the effects of negative equity and high interest rates.

For the last few years, before I left, I was dealing with MEW applications. The lending criteria was so strict. No Advances Officer was going to put their neck on the line for a mortgage that would go t!ts up. I still struggle to understand how it got so silly - wouldn't have happened in my day!

That's how most of us 'old timers' feel too. I worked in a bank when I left school, and the rules there were far stricter than today.

[Harry in Germany]

Early 30's

Don't really remember anything about the 70s for some reason apart from news casts showing rubbish piling up in the streets.

Enjoyed free school dinners after about 1983. Didn't really know why. Dad was a contractor and was always working away. I remember vividly the news always going on about house prices in the late 80s but it didn't really matter to us. We lived on a council estate in Middlesbrough and I didn't really know anyone who lived in a 'bought' house.

My brother lost his business in the early 90s after a period of rapid expansion. He was in steel fabrication and construction and a huge firm went under taking a lot of smaller ones with it. He wasn't bothered though. He did a few nights on the taxis cash in hand and wasn't much worse off after benefits etc. I was leaving college at this time and had two options. University or dead end job - I chose dead end job.

I ended up leaving Boro for a few years to find work and new experiences. It was very, very grim for a lot of people for a long time. Returned in '97 and noticed the green shoots of recovery. A few years later shop assistants were driving around in brand new VW Beetles and buying six figure new builds.

It's going to be very, very, very grim for a lot of people for a very long time.

[stickybun]

42 - Still hate having to go into the next 'segment' on this sort of thing Remember being in petrol queue in 1973 Yom Kippur and altho it's a blur power cuts which led to the village shop giving all it's lollies away as the freezer didn't work Sugar shortages followed When 11 bus strikes and power cuts and everything else in the People's Republic of Sheffield. Left Uni 88 - got made redundant whilst working for a company that went bust whilst delivering a course for long term unemployed. 90's main impact getting made redundant as by now working for construction related organisation - saw it coming - lots of others had gone before; ended up being a good thing for me. Now - think this could be very bad - have been living within means for quite a while and have no debts plus good savings but think many of us have trouble conceptualising the fact that bad shit happens and it can happen to us too. Think my and Mr SBs attitude to debt has in part been shaped by influences of parents who were little in 1920s - my Mums earliest memory is of bailiffs coming to label furniture after her Dads 3 businesses went bust - hitherto successful middle class bod (everyone in family says he was too soft on debtors), don't think he ever recovered mentally from it. Personally speaking feel having little kids makes this worse for me - feeling that at any time you could be deprived of the ability to look after your own and that even tho you have resisted temptations and been boringly responsible, you're about to get asset stripped by that ****** Brown (et al)

[Bertie Wooster]

I am at the age of having much wisdom.

[drhewitt]

You have fond memories of this book too then Bob?

Can't believe I was programming at 4. Something must have gone wrong though cos I wouldn't have a clue now.

I remember the 90's recession, but was at school so it passed me by really. Folks never spent what they didn't have so we got through it, even though my Dad was made redundant.

Darn, I always wanted a spectrum and had to putup with my ZX81. I remember them being 50 quid in Boots one time! That was my first computer back in '83.

[drhewitt]

I'm 32 - don't remember much, if any of the 90s recession - I was too busy studying for my GCSE's.

[drhewitt]

Early 30s (and feeling a bit sensitive about it right now), do remember the 80s recession though. Grew up in a northern industrial town.

I remember being asked by our teacher what we wanted to be when we grew up.

Each kid began with a variation on "If I'm lucky enough to have a job when I'm older, I'd like to be a..."

Poor old teacher started crying before the end and had to leave the room.

Wasn't so bad for us actually, thats just how we thought it was supposed to be.

[if I can editorialise a bit here, welfare dependency doesn't start with people deciding to be bone idle and screw the system. It begins with a class of really quite small children who think they have more chance of being an astronaut than getting a steady job on the checkout at Woolies].

Hey Cogs, that was interesting.

I grew up in sunny Bognor - I remember during Year 9 watching a Butlins job commercial as part of our career lesson - what a load of rubbish. There wasn't the push to go to college or university then as there is now - you either did a 2 year NVQ if you weren't academically gifted or took your A levels.

Edited October 26, 2008 by drhewitt

[Moo]

Mid 30s, remember the 90s recession very, very well indeed, mostly thanks to the experiences of older friends. It's partly why I didn't buy the boom. True, many got away unscathed, but those who lost, lost hard. Had a few years out between GCSEs and A levels \ Uni (I hate education more than Labour, and that's saying something) during the last trough, and did a few dead-end jobs in that time. The biggest impression it left on me personally was of how no-one was hiring those without experience - qualifications, anything like that, meant ****** all - no-one was willing to train. I pity the next few years worth of school leavers, I really do. Employers won't take a chance and train a kid when they can pick up an experienced hand on the cheap.

[Bardon]

mid 40's

Late 70's - spent family allowance on Space Invaders had the highest score in my town and a monopoly on the two venues that had the machine, the death of disco at last, plenty of good football supporter bashings just punch ups then and volunatrily, massive social upheavel which was the norm for me....Anarchy in the UK, Silver Jubillee, Sid & Nancy, John Peel, played the bass in a few punk bands, outta my head, all good..had to hide my punk gear in the bushes as dad wouldn't let me dress that way.

Early 80's - discovered NYC lived in the east village when it was still a gehtto, got into disco and rap and out of punk... loved the US especially NYC.

Mid 80's - couldn't get back in the US as social securty card was stolen in Rome and couldn't get a replacemnst ended up in London, only non French staff memeber in Londons first nouvelle cusine restaurant, Loads of money, two well payed jobs, no tax and dole support, got my yanky mates jobs no P45 required...miners strike what miners strike..wopping wall big deal..met a lot of UK high flyers it was all good at the time...

Late 80's - discovered ozzie Freemnatle for the Americas cup defence, thought I died and went to heaven, sunday sessions in beer gardens chicky babes everywhere, used to be able to get the dole in those days, rented a house in Cairns and turned it into a backpackers, made a motza, and was very popular with my paying guests, remember 87 crash, I told my guests that in support of them I had decided not to raise the rents even though I had taken a hit (ha ha)had absoluely no impact on my cashflow, discovered Asia spent time In Thailand and India life changing

Early 90's back in UK worked in road and bridge construction pretty good memories then back to oz for the rececsion that we had to have, had no impact on me I didn't even know it was a recssion until I read about it 10 years later, worked pretty hard in engineering and construction in remote resource rich areas and rewards were there. Got married bought a hosue for 132K (now 710k) borrowed 97% plus mortgage insurance for bank borrowed the rest of in laws and paid them all back.

Late 90's bsed in Jakarta for the asian crisis and the fall of suhartol, was getting paid in US $ purchasing power incerased 12oo% purchased lots of dutch antique furniture and filled two shipping containers, used to buy two lobster tails for lunch becasue I could, no -ve impact

Early naughties- started family freaked out about my responsibility for them and survived, renovated house and seem some big price growth, bought 7 houses in US yuch, lost money in shares yuch.

Now- no punk, no disco, just a busted ass itune collection, more houses, family orientated, fixed investment loans, staying a bit liquid right now, its all cyclical.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Bardon

[Pelorus Pete]

51

Got my 1st initiation into the Real World mid 80’s

Was a farm owner and government change brought in sweeping changes to Tax incentives and that Gvt also removed all farm subsidies overnight. Land dropped in half and stock like Deer (which I was involved in) went down from 4k – 500$ overnight.

Broke by 87 – even before the Share Market crash.

Climbed back up and divorce smacked me back to ground zero late 90’s.

Learnt not to have any unnecessary debt and have a sea fronting property with only 80k debt.

Married a Russian – best thing I ever did, they know how to provide and live off the land, thrifty also.

Should be OK through this downturn.

Just saw a property Auction on tonight’s news, for an Auckland property, with a $1 reserve. Had a Valuation of just over 1 million – Sold for 630K

[dinker]

Over 50

I built my first PC from 7400 series TTL ICs, you Spectrum owners had it easy. Wrote my own OS in Z80 assembly language and burnt it into an EPROM in binary (front panel toggle switches!).

I was working as a milkman in the 90s and every business on my round went bust, used to go in for payment and PWC would be there. Learnt the following:

(1) People lie constantly, especially about money.

(2) People react far too late to changed circumstances.

[housespider]

I'm early forties

Started work 1981

bought my first (and last) house in 1985 for £31.5K

had first child in Feb 1988 (returned to full time work in April 1988)

15% interest rate mortgage hurt a bit as did the Poll Tax, our 'rates' went from just over £200 per year to almost £1000

Didn't have a holiday of any sort for 7 years and even worked 6 days a week for 5 years with no time off whatsover

[cynic]

over 60.

A few property mini-booms during the 60s I think, pockets of activity across the country, fits and starts but I was just out of uni, skint, and the property-price lobe in my brain as yet undeveloped, smaller than a foetal thumb. It was only later when I got on the detestable 'ladder' that I developed a passing interest and talked to folk not much older than me who'd bought decent houses in London then for 4k or less. Now add 2 zeros and a tadd more.

73/74, I'd just been kicked out a flat-share in Islington - the owners were a family of lawyers and I wasn't up for a fight so went back home for 6 months or so. I vividly recall the power cuts, sitting in the kitchen with my dear old mum and a few candles burning. We had gas too, so we could always have a cuppa. I think the rota for our local power-cuts was posted up in the window of a local newsagent.... and the 3-day week of course, though as a semi-employed musician that had little effect one way or the other.

In London, at least, we were also deep in the throes of a significant property crash around that time (GC0?). I knew a guy who gigged and also managed a guitar shop (you needed a 'proper' job for a mortgage in those days) who was spitting blood having discovered his house was worth only 10k - he'd paid 12k for it a year or so earlier. He might conceivably have been in negative equity though I doubt the term NE was then in the standard vocabulary. The local market didn't start to recover until '77, round about the time I bought a house for the first time.

I was sure a crash was coming in the late 80s and used to listen to Bob Beckman well before that on LBC radio who regularly predicted GC1 on his investment slot but started to predict a few years too early....a bit like some of us here. When things finally went off a cliff I knew an accountant - a circle of friends thought him really savvy - who'd quickly built up a btl portfolio of around 6 properties and was bankrupt within 6 months. I was lucky enough to be in work at the time with no need to move hence unaffected.

So nearly 40 years of boom and bust within my window. Not even in our wildest imaginings could we have forseen anything on the scale or in the nature of today's mess.

(edit: too many zeros)

Edited October 26, 2008 by cynic

[the primitive]

15% interest rate mortgage hurt a bit as did the Poll Tax, our 'rates' went from just over £200 per year to almost £1000

Poll tax was the best thing since sliced bread for my parents, rates went from £1200 to £1000.

Too young to remember "rates" - how was it calculated? £200 seems absurdly low.

[Dunroamin']

38

I have vague recollections of the lights going out in the '70's and queues at the local petrol station.

The early 80's were tough for my parents....looking back it's clear that their income had been severely reduced.

Many of my friends who graduated with me in 1992 struggled to find work.

[SeenItAllBefore]

I’m 43.

I was a kid growing up in a country village during the 70s recession so, apart from the power cuts, I don’t remember anybody being affected.

When I started college in the mid-80s I remember 3rd year students making hundreds of failed job applications as there wasn’t much opportunity around. Graduated at the height of the late 80s boom and was very lucky to get a trainee job with a blue-chip company just as it turned to bust. They didn’t take on any other trainees for 3 years after that.

The key I remember about the early 90s recession was that it was the first one that affected white-collar, middle class jobs. In all the previous post-war downturns it was blue-collar workers in heavy industry that were dumped on the scrap heap and, as they lived in council houses, the broad effect on the housing market wasn’t that pronounced.

I can remember my company making several rounds of job cuts. The HR department pretty much disappeared and managers in the IT department who were my age now were deemed irrelevant and fired as we moved from old mainframe technology to open systems. Watching that happen killed any ambition I had to climb the corporate ladder, hence I went contracting as soon as I could when the economy improved in the mid-90s. My abiding memory of working during a recession was of how cynical, bullying and manipulative managers rise to the top and the workplace slowly became a very unpleasant place to be. Those that have never worked in an economic downturn, probably half of the workforce now, are very lucky to have got this far without having to experience times like those. I had it at the beginning of my working life and it’s coloured my attitude ever since.

I think this recession will be the first where mainly the white-collar middle classes take most of the hit and this will probably lead to profound social and economic change. Even if they don’t lose their jobs there will be millions that will see their wealth disappear because of poorly timed property investments both here and abroad. Britain is up to its neck in this global debt bubble and the fallout will be something pretty awful to behold. Pretty much all of the financial infrastructure that was supposed to have justified the step change in house prices has been revealed as a sham and collapsed. Nothing has happened in the last decade to move prices away from the norm of 3-4 times salary and by 2007 on some measures they had reached 9 times salary. That’s one hell of a deviation from where they should be and the adjustment downwards will be brutal and ruinous for many.

If, like me, you’ve spent the boom securing your financial position then the coming years will hopefully not be too harrowing. If I had a huge mortgage now I think I’d be in despair.

[OverseasInterest]

Fun thread this. Especially the fond memories from youth that people post here.

I'll give you a not so fond one (ah well, it's a fond one these days). Growing up in the Netherlands the real crisis of the 70s was not so much the car-free Sundays brought on by the energy crisis (due to the nature of his work my father was still allowed to drive - on virtually empty motorways!). Nah, I remember going on a visit to my grandparents on the day of the 74 World Cup final, being only allowed to listen to the second half of the match on the radio upstairs. On the way back we were overtaken by a German car full of celebrating - and taunting - Krauts.

Now, THAT's a real crisis...

Apart from that, I've always had it good. We were always taught to be frugal, even though we had considerable means. Grandparents and parents had lived through the crisis of the 30s and the subsequent war and German occupation. They instilled caution in our genes, it seems.

At birth, I was given stocks and shares by my grandparents. I wasn't given access to them until I was about 25. Couldn't believe the numbers when I saw the statements.

Nevertheless, I have always worked and lived of my income from my work, even though it has been (very) low at times. I actually enjoy spending little. Hey, I am Dutch after all!

Can't stand the arrogance of modern richess, the measuring of people according to their (supposed) monetary wealth. It is the most horrible and misguided way to judge people. If this 'downturn' can change that, at least something good will come out of it.

Lived abroad for many years in various countries; have always been self-employed. Seen a lot of the world, including the misery so many people live in every day. Has made me realise I am immensely lucky and privileged.

Have no debts and own - yes, indeed - various 'properties', i.e. houses and land, all mortgage-free.

As in the past, this recession hits me in the stock market. It's not fun, but it's the way it works. If you cannot live with that, you shouldn't be in the stock market. Besides, I have always invested following the prudent rules of investing. As long as I have work, my life doesn't change much whether the market is up or down 50%.

Still, I can't escape the feeling of dread with regard to the present crisis. Momentous changes may be upon the (Western) world. Interesting times, indeed.

Edited October 26, 2008 by OverseasInterest

[Driver]

We had an electric cooker in the 70's so we couldn't cook anything during our turn for the power cuts. I also remember the schedule of blackout and brownout times. My mum always had a gas hob after that. We had a calor gas camping lamp and a calor gas stove for these times. The two shilling coins for the electricity meter under the staircase were kept in a tub in the larder so that we never ran out. As a kid I used to love feeding the meter and turning the handle. The meter reader used to come round and empty the coins onto the kitchen table to count them.

My dad changed his job quite a lot in those days. He always went back to ICL but got made redundant quite a lot. When they relocated to Manchester we had a four day paid trip up there to see what Manchester was like and to consider relocating. It was the one and only time we ever bought anything from a motorway service station because ICL was paying for it.

We also took a look at Milton Keynes to consider relocating there to chase jobs. In the event my parents stayed where they were. He was never out of work but he worked for some companies he didn't like. He especially hated working for rank Xerox (I think they were in Hatfield). My mum had to work in the chip shop to make ends meet. We used to play on the sacks of potatoes after school until she was ready to finish.

My dad used to grow horrible runner beans in the garden, worse still the bugger used to freeze the extra ones. To this day i hate runner beans. When we bought meat from the butchers it was always half a lamb or half a pig and it used to go in the chest freezer.

Shoes were so expensive for us I always had to have the ones on sale that were usually from last year. Got some stick at school sometimes. When I got my first part time job I started buying all my own clothes.

I don't remember being unhappy about money or any of my friends being unhappy.

[dr ray]

over 60.

......I was sure a crash was coming in the late 80s and used to listen to Bob Beckman well before that on LBC radio who regularly predicted GC1 on his investment slot but started to predict a few years too early....

Bob Beckman....that brings back memories. He was a real bear. Nothing wrong with being a bear but you need to get the timing right. I know people who made a living doing the exact opposite to what he recommended and the unit trust he ran tanked to almost nothing during a bull market.

I wonder what hes up to now or whether hes still alive.

[dr ray]

Bob Beckman....that brings back memories. He was a real bear. Nothing wrong with being a bear but you need to get the timing right. I know people who made a living doing the exact opposite to what he recommended and the unit trust he ran tanked to almost nothing during a bull market.

I wonder what hes up to now or whether hes still alive.

Oh dear:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/o...icle3104632.ece

[tiggerthetiger]

Looks like he did well out of selling his book anyway 500,000 copies

[dr ray]

Looks like he did well out of selling his book anyway 500,000 copies

Yeah, His dog done well too.

"when his Old English sheepdog, William, started making excellent returns on the stock market, making more than £100,000 over seven years"

I always said that a monkey could do well in a rising market (houses and equities) but you don't even need to be that intellegent.