Embarrassing "auction" In Ballymena...

[VedantaTrader]

I went to an Ulster Property Sales auction in Ballymena on Thursday night. I say auction, however, as the representative for UPS said, its not an auction in the true sense of the word with a hammer and the sale completed on the floor. More of a way to present the properties, and initiate interests.

There was about 35 or 40 people in the room. The UPS guy got up and welcomed everyone, and got all the pleasantaries out of the way. I ll paraphrase what he said. He said, "I m sure it is not secret to anyone that the property market has stagnated slightly lately. I m sure you have all read the scare mongering in the papers and the TV, about these doomsday predictions of 10% falls. However, I would like to say that it is really not that bad, its no where near as bad as people in the media are making out. Property prices went up 100% in the last 2 years. I think that we can all agree that this rate of growth was unsustainable. The rise in prices has slowed off now, and this is a great time to be buying property, as we have some very negotiable, and great value properties. We are now seeing properties at a much more affordable level"

He then predeceded to go through a slide show of the properties...The first property was in an estate, terrace house, on the market at £140,000. IMO, its worth about £65,000-£70,000. So he starts at the high price, no interest, no bids...drops 10 thousand, nothing...drops another 10....nothing..."this propert has got to be good value at this price...ok I ll go down another 10...and another ...now £100,000...I cant go any lower...nothing....he marks it down as unsold.

Propertry number 2...same thing...

Property 3...same thing....

Property 4...This one is a 3500 sq feet property in the country without bathroom and kitchen. Nice place. Starting bid...£490,000...came down to £390,000...and you guessed it nothing....no bids.

It was getting embarrassing at this point...although I was sitting rather smug looking. I wanted to jump up and tell them was I thought of the whole thing, and their auction and marketing idea was pointless, as they dont understand the economics of the situation....anyway....

A property that started at 290,000 came down to 240,000. And the UPS EA said, now we have dropped into the lower stamp duty band. This has got to be great value now.

I felt like saying, yes thats the problem..you have been knocking 15-30% of these properties all night, and its that other 1.5% that is stagnating the market. I wanted to say if that was the real problem why not drop the asking price by 1% then the sale should go through.

Anyway...in all 30 properties, there were no bids and no sign of interest. At the end the EA said, I m a little disappointed, but there seems to be a stagnation in the market at the moment.

I scratched my head at one point and he made a joke that I was making a bid...I laughed and said you must be joking...

To me this shows how bad it really is. I wanted to speak to them at the end, and explain how this bubble had occurred and explain that this is not something that will pass in a few months, like they were saying...I didnt as they already looked a little bit deflated...

[HPCwhen?]

Thanks for posting this - truely amazing insight into the state of the NI market - I don't think Meltdown is too strong a word.

[JoeDavola]

Property prices went up 100% in the last 2 years.

I'm amazed he actually admitted this. As if it would help sales? If they went up 100% in 2 years, they can drop 50% easily.

Edited June 21, 2008 by JoeDavola

[spring]

I went to an Ulster Property Sales auction in Ballymena on Thursday night. I say auction, however, as the representative for UPS said, its not an auction in the true sense of the word with a hammer and the sale completed on the floor. More of a way to present the properties, and initiate interests.

There was about 35 or 40 people in the room. The UPS guy got up and welcomed everyone, and got all the pleasantaries out of the way. I ll paraphrase what he said. He said, "I m sure it is not secret to anyone that the property market has stagnated slightly lately. I m sure you have all read the scare mongering in the papers and the TV, about these doomsday predictions of 10% falls. However, I would like to say that it is really not that bad, its no where near as bad as people in the media are making out. Property prices went up 100% in the last 2 years. I think that we can all agree that this rate of growth was unsustainable. The rise in prices has slowed off now, and this is a great time to be buying property, as we have some very negotiable, and great value properties. We are now seeing properties at a much more affordable level"

He then predeceded to go through a slide show of the properties...The first property was in an estate, terrace house, on the market at £140,000. IMO, its worth about £65,000-£70,000. So he starts at the high price, no interest, no bids...drops 10 thousand, nothing...drops another 10....nothing..."this propert has got to be good value at this price...ok I ll go down another 10...and another ...now £100,000...I cant go any lower...nothing....he marks it down as unsold.

Propertry number 2...same thing...

Property 3...same thing....

Property 4...This one is a 3500 sq feet property in the country without bathroom and kitchen. Nice place. Starting bid...£490,000...came down to £390,000...and you guessed it nothing....no bids.

It was getting embarrassing at this point...although I was sitting rather smug looking. I wanted to jump up and tell them was I thought of the whole thing, and their auction and marketing idea was pointless, as they dont understand the economics of the situation....anyway....

A property that started at 290,000 came down to 240,000. And the UPS EA said, now we have dropped into the lower stamp duty band. This has got to be great value now.

I felt like saying, yes thats the problem..you have been knocking 15-30% of these properties all night, and its that other 1.5% that is stagnating the market. I wanted to say if that was the real problem why not drop the asking price by 1% then the sale should go through.

Anyway...in all 30 properties, there were no bids and no sign of interest. At the end the EA said, I m a little disappointed, but there seems to be a stagnation in the market at the moment.

I scratched my head at one point and he made a joke that I was making a bid...I laughed and said you must be joking...

To me this shows how bad it really is. I wanted to speak to them at the end, and explain how this bubble had occurred and explain that this is not something that will pass in a few months, like they were saying...I didnt as they already looked a little bit deflated...

Perfect post...5 stars.

I felt like saying, yes thats the problem..you have been knocking 15-30% of these properties all night, and its that other 1.5% that is stagnating the market.

ha, yes, it really peeves me off the way they keep harping on about how the problem is stamp duty...stamp duty is the least of FTBs problems.

[YoungFTB]

Thanks for sharing your experience VT, very interesting indeed.

[FrustratedFTB]

Heres a link to the brouchure for this 'Auction':

http://www.ulsterpropertysales.co.uk/media...20(updated).pdf

Maybe the result of the auction will make them think about their other statement on their website!

http://www.ulsterpropertysales.co.uk/news-...x?dataid=168089

PROPERTY IS STILL POPULAR!04 June 2008

ISSUED ON BEHALF OF THE CARVILL GROUP

A sign of the times!

Could this at last be sign that the worst of the housing crisis could finally be over in Northern Ireland?

First time buyers queued from the early hours of this morning on Belfast's Lisburn Road to purchase their dream home in Woodbrook, the province's first eco-village which was unveiled to the public by the Carvill Group yesterday.

According to Desmond Turley of UPS, who are selling the homes this welcome sight is testament to the innovative project from the Carvill Group and the affordability of the homes on offer.

�Woodbrook is an amazing development and the response at yesterday's opening was phenomenal.

�We had a lot of genuine interest from people and I think this is a reflection both of the quality of homes which are on offer and the affordability of all the properties. Starter homes and apartment are on sale from just £99,950 with three bedroom homes from £151,950 and six bedroom turn-key homes from £314,950.

�it is hopefully indicative of optimism in the market too with more first time buyers starting to come forward.�

First in the queue was Alison Morehead, a graphic designer from Dromara who was hoping to get on the property ladder for the first time after a two year quest.

�It has been very difficult to get on the ladder as a first time buyer. So I was delighted when I spotted an apartment yesterday which ticked all my boxes and was just under £100,000.

�I was thrilled with the price and the high specification of the turn-key property not to mention the fact that it comes with a free bike and has lots of eco credentials which make it very appealing.�

ENDS�///

Notes to editor: for further details contact Karen Ireland @ ASITIS Consulting on 07776 070101 or 028 90438677 .

- Prices start from £99,950 for two bedroom apartments in Woodbrook and £151,950 for three bedroom family homes.

- The Carvill Group is responsible for market-leading developments in England, Scotland and Germany, as well as the award-winning Horizon Buildings Development on Belfast's Shore Road.

- The company is responsible for the £600m redevelopment of the former Sirocco Works, at the quays in Belfast

Photo Caption:

'Wood' you believe it: Here is a sight we haven't seen for some time in Northern Ireland - eager house hunters queuing from early morning outside UPS on Belfast's Lisburn Road to purchase their dream home in The Carvill Group's pioneering new Woodbrook development. Part of Northern Ireland's first eco-village just outside Lisburn, the homes were unveiled to the public for the first time yesterday. Over 2,000 people flocked through the gates to get a glimpse of this visionary new development.

[drm1]

'It was getting embarrassing at this point...although I was sitting rather smug looking'

I think this quote says more about you VT than it does about the well intended efforts of any estate agent!!

[Malthus]

'It was getting embarrassing at this point...although I was sitting rather smug looking'

I think this quote says more about you VT than it does about the well intended efforts of any estate agent!!

how is the EA game at the moment ?

[Belfast Boy]

'It was getting embarrassing at this point...although I was sitting rather smug looking'

I think this quote says more about you VT than it does about the well intended efforts of any estate agent!!

... and your first post says alot about you too.

Have you read many of VT's posts?

VT is one of the most knowlegible posters here. He has a much greater understanding of economics and the markets than most people on this website.

[subby]

[Rock-n-Roll]

'It was getting embarrassing at this point...although I was sitting rather smug looking'

I think this quote says more about you VT than it does about the well intended efforts of any estate agent!!

a VI?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QzvuS22HnSY

rock on!

[cacot]

'It was getting embarrassing at this point...although I was sitting rather smug looking'

I think this quote says more about you VT than it does about the well intended efforts of any estate agent!!

well intentioned for them maybe, not for the poor schmuck that would be trapped in an unaffordable mortgage/collapsing asset.

[drm1]

well intentioned for them maybe, not for the poor schmuck that would be trapped in an unaffordable mortgage/collapsing asset.

Firstly let me clarify, I do not know VT and have no personal axe to grind. Secondly thank God I am not an estate agent, and thirdly (and for me most importantly) I am the 'poor schmuch' who is struggling with everything that is going on at the minute, and here is the news flash, nobody put a gun to my head and told me to buy at the peak of the market, it just seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

What is this mentality in Northern Ireland to kick people when they're down, quite honestly it seems almost prime evil to me. If I was on here saying my estate agent has not so much as called me in six months then I would be told to hire a better agent, and when a company takes a pro-active approach to things whither successful or not they are slated for that too.

My estate agent (who will remain nameless) told me to reduce my house 30% from it's peak value and within 48 hours I had an offer from a first time buyer, and yes finacially this hurts a bit, but it now makes me potentially a first time buyer again and my money will go alot further than it did last year.

Blogs like this are invaluable to promote free speech and opinions, but take a walk on any main street at the minute and you will quickly see that the feel good factor has all but gone, and this is not good for anybody. I am not denying that the stack of cards has started to fall, but none of us can predict were it is going to end any more than anyone was able to predict it's commencement.

My main point is this, rather than sitting smugly as people try to deal with these problems, would our time not be better spent in doing whatever we can to fix it. I think scaremongering is too strong a word to use in relation to the media and websites as this, but any flippant approaches to what is adversely affecting countless normal people in this country I feel is unforgivable!

[subby]

I am not denying that the stack of cards has started to fall, but none of us can predict were it is going to end any more than anyone was able to predict it's commencement.

think you'll find we all knew about the demise. I'd hazzard a guess that when I joined, in April 07, the cards were starting to wobble and that's when I knew there would be trouble. On other football sites I'm a member of I called the housing collapse back in June last year and got laughed at by the "houses only go up" brigade....some of them actually now said that I was the first person they knew of to call it so early

point I'm making is that most on here knew the collpase of house prices was coming a long time ago, if you'd have done some research before you bought you wouldn't be in trouble now. Hope you get the sale through though and make some money out of it

[Belfast Boy]

My main point is this, rather than sitting smugly as people try to deal with these problems, would our time not be better spent in doing whatever we can to fix it. I think scaremongering is too strong a word to use in relation to the media and websites as this, but any flippant approaches to what is adversely affecting countless normal people in this country I feel is unforgivable!

We report and discuss the problem here and you accuse us of scaremongering Would you prefer that we only had the opinions of government and vested interests to listen to? Would you prefer that sites like this - with ordinary people contributing - were censored?

How can we hope to 'fix the problem' without reporting and discussing the worst aspects of the economic crisis we all face?

Yes, I am smug that many of the people that got us into this mess in the first place are now in trouble themselves. They got greedy.

However, most people here do feel sorry for ordinary people who got caught up in the bubble.

I have a few simple and obvious ideas to fix the problem. Unfortunately, the government will keep doing the wrong things to try and keep everyone happy.

What needs to happen...

1. The government addresses the cause of the problem - debt! Reduce national and personal debt (instead of trying to increase both )

2. Let the over streched developers go bankrupt.

3. Let the over streched banks go bankrupt.

4. Start again with historically tried-and-tested traditional lending which worked for generations. 30-40% of income for shelter - which translates into a mortgage of 3 times single income. This would mean that the average house should be around £63,000. They were building new 3 bedroom semi-detached houses for £72,000 just 6 years ago in 2002.

Unfortunately, the above would likely cause mass unemployment and a depression. Though, I feel the end result of this economic crisis may be the same. What if a depression is the only fix for the problem? What if a depression is the inevitable outcome of living beyond our means (at all levels) for too long?

The last time in history we saw an economic mess like this was in the 1930's. Because of the 'gold standard' there was massive deflation. This time the governments can create money electronically. They don't even have to print it. Money no longer has to be backed by anything tangible, that takes man-hours and resources to produce. This time I believe the end result will be the same. We will still have a depression. Though, this time everyone will have lots of money - it just won't be worth the paper it is printed on. Cgnao used to warn about a hyperinflationary depression and VT warns about a crack up boom.

You may think what I am saying is scare mongering, doom and gloom. However, this is the place I can come to discuss my worst fears. I cannot discuss this at home, at my sports club, at my work, with my biker buddies, with my surfer buddies, with my drinking buddies, with my girlfriend, with my family, in the leisure centre sauna. These forums are the only place I can come to discuss these thoughts.

My understanding of the economic crisis is very, very basic. In my opinion, the person who understands this economic crisis best in the Northern Ireland forum, is the same person you attacked with your first post.

I too have been accused of being smug here. Personally, I'd rather know what is going on and look smug - than not have a clue what's going on and feel stupid. If you prefer to bury your head in the sand, it's your choice. Maybe if we don't talk about the problems they will go away.

Good luck,

BB

Edit: Oh, and welcome to the forum. You have certainly got things going and I love a good mass debate

Edited October 23, 2008 by Belfast Boy

[wayoutwest]

Since this thread has been resurrected...

From a report in the Impartial Reporter 16th October 2008. Not published online.

Over 130 people gathered into Enniskillen Golf Club last Thursday to witness one of Fermanagh's largest ever public property auctions...

But the rainy and gloomy weather viewed from inside the club, best conveyed the scene as only one site from a catalogue of 32 lots was purchased on the day. A piece of freehold land....was sold for £23,000. The remaining 52 registered bidders were reluctant to part with any of their cash during the hour long event.

[shipbuilder]

Blogs like this are invaluable to promote free speech and opinions, but take a walk on any main street at the minute and you will quickly see that the feel good factor has all but gone, and this is not good for anybody. I am not denying that the stack of cards has started to fall, but none of us can predict were it is going to end any more than anyone was able to predict it's commencement.

My main point is this, rather than sitting smugly as people try to deal with these problems, would our time not be better spent in doing whatever we can to fix it. I think scaremongering is too strong a word to use in relation to the media and websites as this, but any flippant approaches to what is adversely affecting countless normal people in this country I feel is unforgivable!

Sadly, as we will all realise over the next few years, there is no 'fix it', other than letting the crash take its course. We all enjoyed the good times - some of us looked around and realised it was all too good to be true, others didn't. At some point we all have to take responsibility for our actions - were it not for sites like this speaking out, even more would have been in trouble. Your tone suggests that if we all had just shut up, everything might have been OK - read some of the other threads on here - there's a wealth of information on here and the wider economy - things were never going to be OK.

Your thinking regarding this not being good for anyone is a short term, self regarding one. High house prices benefit no-one in the long term - inflation, lack of social mobility, crippling debt, a stagnant population, lack of disposable income, the list goes on.

I think, when this is all over, prices are affordable and we are all hopefully a little bit wiser, a little less materialistic and a little more focused on life rather than money, we may look on this as the best thing to ever happen to this small part of the world.

[Ulidia]

Sadly, as we will all realise over the next few years, there is no 'fix it', other than letting the crash take its course. We all enjoyed the good times - some of us looked around and realised it was all too good to be true, others didn't. At some point we all have to take responsibility for our actions - were it not for sites like this speaking out, even more would have been in trouble. Your tone suggests that if we all had just shut up, everything might have been OK - read some of the other threads on here - there's a wealth of information on here and the wider economy - things were never going to be OK.

Your thinking regarding this not being good for anyone is a short term, self regarding one. High house prices benefit no-one in the long term - inflation, lack of social mobility, crippling debt, a stagnant population, lack of disposable income, the list goes on.

I think, when this is all over, prices are affordable and we are all hopefully a little bit wiser, a little less materialistic and a little more focused on life rather than money, we may look on this as the best thing to ever happen to this small part of the world.

Great post .... echoes my sentiments 100% but in a more articulated, considered fashion

[nemesis]

My main point is this, rather than sitting smugly as people try to deal with these problems, would our time not be better spent in doing whatever we can to fix it. I think scaremongering is too strong a word to use in relation to the media and websites as this, but any flippant approaches to what is adversely affecting countless normal people in this country I feel is unforgivable!

Sorry if I may appear flippant but I don't see what is happening to the housing market as a problem at all - it's simply the natural process of a return of a grossly inflated asset class to fair value. To try to convince a gullible public otherwise wouldn't be a fix, it would be a scandal.

Based on the historical average price/earnings ratio for NI, a drop of over 50% wouldn't be unreasonable and should be prepared for. To say so isn't scaremongering, it's simply a considered opinion based on widely available data. It's certainly more believable that to suggest that NI deserves to have the highest house prices than most anywhere else in the world.

[azogar]

Sadly, as we will all realise over the next few years, there is no 'fix it', other than letting the crash take its course. We all enjoyed the good times - some of us looked around and realised it was all too good to be true, others didn't. At some point we all have to take responsibility for our actions - were it not for sites like this speaking out, even more would have been in trouble. Your tone suggests that if we all had just shut up, everything might have been OK - read some of the other threads on here - there's a wealth of information on here and the wider economy - things were never going to be OK.

Your thinking regarding this not being good for anyone is a short term, self regarding one. High house prices benefit no-one in the long term - inflation, lack of social mobility, crippling debt, a stagnant population, lack of disposable income, the list goes on.

I think, when this is all over, prices are affordable and we are all hopefully a little bit wiser, a little less materialistic and a little more focused on life rather than money, we may look on this as the best thing to ever happen to this small part of the world.

Great post .... echoes my sentiments 100% but in a more articulated, considered fashion

seconded

[shipbuilder]

Thanks you guys......

[VedantaTrader]

This is an oldish topic. Drm, I understand that being smug is not a great thing...I dont think I was really looking that smug. I wouldnt say i am a smug person, it says something about you DRM, blindly judging someone on one sentence,online, who you dont know. And thanks for the support from the rest of the members by the way. However, I think it was a positive thing that people were not buying properties at that auction, with a rental yield of 2-3% after 25-30% reductions in price. Why are rising house prices good. I think stable prices that enable us to save so that we can build up a nest egg to enjoy overtime on travel, gadgets, family, friends, your hobbies or whatever you want is a much better proposition. Rising prices creates panic, and nervousness, and stress in people about being able to provie for their family. Inflation is a nasty thing. It does creat lots of uncertainty. A society where prices stayed constant most of the time would be a great thing. I mean prices would go up at times, but would revert to the mean in time. when prices rise, interest rates should rise naturally according to the correct level set naturally by the aggregate supply and demand for money. Rising rates would curb prices, lead to higher savings, which in the future would lead to future consumption and interest rates falling naturally then we could enjoy our period of savings. However, this state of constant credit expansion, the unrealistic and dangerous expections that we should never have a recession leads to uncertainty, and stress about finances.

NO one knows what price anything will be next year, or in 2 years time. In a society where interest rates were naturally set by "us", or under some sort of gold standard, we would know how prices would be over time. Yes, they would go up and down, but they would stay within a "price band", rather than this constant inflation and rising prices.

Edited October 26, 2008 by VedantaTrader

[Ballymena FTBer]

Hi Folks, I came across this thread purely by accident today and felt that I had to comment as it had me grinning for at least an hour afterwards. Firstly, as my username says I am from Ballymena and am still not on the 'property ladder'. I was searching online for auctions of Ballymena properties and the link to this topic was on the first page. I have heard of the hpc forum in passing but never felt the need to visit it as I wasnt actively looking to buy a house until recently. That hasnt stopped me visiting every agent in Ballymena over the past 2 years to get an idea of what is available and to see prices change noticably each and every month on their shelves. My desire to own my own home has increased in recent months due to changes in my family circumstances and employment so for me at least now is the time to buy. Due to my limited deposit and earnings I have to trawl the lower end of the market namely repo'd houses and stuff coming up at auctions, hence my original search.

The point of this post is that I have a little bit more knowledge of the background of this thread and hoped an update would interest the members of this forum and maybe vindicate them in what they said back in 2008. My Dad was at this auction as he likes to fix up houses and sell them on at a small profit -not a proper developer, just someone trying to make an honest living and who knows what realistic selling prices are not the overinflated rubbish Eas tell him. Anyway, he was just as disappointed in this auction as there wasnt a decent thing to buy all night and the prices were basically the same as what the Ea was advertising in his office, so no bargains to be had. As a Ballymena native and someone who knows most of the Eas I can tell you that the auctioneer for Ups was a David McIlveen (son of the well known reverend McIlveen). This is the same guy who last month won the North Antrim seat for the DUP in the assembly elections and is now sitting in Stormont so no more daily grind as an Ea in Ballymena. The funny thing is that I recognised his initials immediately from the post (drm1) so he clearly was riled by your comments lol. Having met the fella a few times I can assure you that he will talk up anything and was telling me that prices wouldnt go down anymore back last year, but it seems they did and still are. I'm glad I waited until now even though they might not be rock bottom, I still think I can afford my own home and get on with my life.

[NuBrit]

As a Ballymena native and someone who knows most of the Eas I can tell you that the auctioneer for Ups was a David McIlveen (son of the well known reverend McIlveen). This is the same guy who last month won the North Antrim seat for the DUP in the assembly elections and is now sitting in Stormont so no more daily grind as an Ea in Ballymena. The funny thing is that I recognised his initials immediately from the post (drm1) so he clearly was riled by your comments lol.

This slimeball is now representing us in one of the highest institutions of public office. I don't know whether to laught or cry.

[Shotoflight]

This slimeball is now representing us in one of the highest institutions of public office. I don't know whether to laught or cry.

Our first Minister was an EA and no doubt there are some others. Make of that what you will - shared skills sets, public standing, honesty, values, etc., etc.