Brown Warns Pensions Are At Risk

[barsark]

The average person needs a minimum £300,000 investment pot with which to provide a pension.

This equates to 25 years at £1000 per month.

Quite realistic really, assuming of course that all pension funds and financial instruments are now useless and will never perfom again, therefore it is only saved money rather than pension FUND that will provide for your retirement.

All he needs to do now is give us the wage inflation, whilst heading full tilt towards a recession.

He's a fekkin genius and I can not wait to see how he does it, and gets (re?) elected!

[Doom Lord]

The average person needs a minimum £300,000 investment pot with which to provide a pension.

This equates to 25 years at £1000 per month.

Quite realistic really, assuming of course that all pension funds and financial instruments are now useless and will never perfom again, therefore it is only saved money rather than pension FUND that will provide for your retirement.

All he needs to do now is give us the wage inflation, whilst heading full tilt towards a recession.

He's a fekkin genius and I can not wait to see how he does it, and gets (re?) elected!

So the question I ask is: Have the "BTL in it for my pension brigade" got the right idea? Even if they are subsidising a couple of hundred quid a month it still seems like a better alternative than a grand a month with no gaurentees on results and nothing to pass on to your kids?

[AteMoose]

So the question I ask is: Have the "BTL in it for my pension brigade" got the right idea? Even if they are subsidising a couple of hundred quid a month it still seems like a better alternative than a grand a month with no gaurentees on results and nothing to pass on to your kids?

Yes its very sensible to be geared in an inflationary enviroment.... 10% deposit means your money works 10x harder, the question is what does the future hold?

Edited January 7, 2008 by moosetea

[lulu]

So the question I ask is: Have the "BTL in it for my pension brigade" got the right idea? Even if they are subsidising a couple of hundred quid a month it still seems like a better alternative than a grand a month with no gaurentees on results and nothing to pass on to your kids?

The problem is that the BTL strategy f*cks over everyone else (particularly the young) and therefore should have been discouraged, as it is only going to lead to more problems in the future - but as all UK Governments look only as far as making sure they can win the next election they have not had any reason to thinking about how serious their actions (encouraging turning homes into investment opportunities) are affecting peoples lives.

[DabHand]

Yeah unfortunately Laurajon's not far out. I did a pension calc recently (check them on mse or somesuch) and for a normal retirement saving from mid twenties for a 20k per year real terms pension = over £700/month saving required.

[sirius]

anyone paying into a pension is insane. itll be worthless in the future. imagine that, hundreds of pounds a month for decades, and bugger all at the end. pension laws can be changed with the stroke of a pen and if you dont like it, then i'm afraid you are a Terrorist and must be detained.

better to use the money now.

the very idea of a pension is ludicrous anyway - pay money to some anonymous corporate entity for 40 years who could go bust at any second, and then you retire - get a small lump sum (taxed) and then HAVE to by law then put your own money right back into the same thieving system to buy a pittence of an income from.

people are waking up - pensions are rubbish, unless they are public sector gold plated ones that are massively subsidised. even then, will the public sector pay out in 40 years? will the public sector as we know it exist? will the UK exist?

anyone seriously expecting to work till 65 then live on £25000 (adjusted for inflation) for the next 20 years is suffering from some form of mental delusion.

you'll be working until you collapse at your work post, or alternatively, you'll be able to join the poor house.

seriously, the golden age of fat pensions is over, but for a select few of our overlords.

[Leigh]

anyone paying into a pension is insane. itll be worthless in the future. imagine that, hundreds of pounds a month for decades, and bugger all at the end. pension laws can be changed with the stroke of a pen and if you dont like it, then i'm afraid you are a Terrorist and must be detained.

better to use the money now.

the very idea of a pension is ludicrous anyway - pay money to some anonymous corporate entity for 40 years who could go bust at any second, and then you retire - get a small lump sum (taxed) and then HAVE to by law then put your own money right back into the same thieving system to buy a pittence of an income from.

people are waking up - pensions are rubbish, unless they are public sector gold plated ones that are massively subsidised. even then, will the public sector pay out in 40 years? will the public sector as we know it exist? will the UK exist?

anyone seriously expecting to work till 65 then live on £25000 (adjusted for inflation) for the next 20 years is suffering from some form of mental delusion.

you'll be working until you collapse at your work post, or alternatively, you'll be able to join the poor house.

seriously, the golden age of fat pensions is over, but for a select few of our overlords.

Agreed.

The only way I see myself being happy and financially secure when I retire, is if I get rich before I retire.

When I am 65-75 years of age, 2/3rds of the population will also be around the same age meaning that there is a huge burden on pension funds.

[I want a house!]

Figures suggest that the average worker in the UK is saving less than £1,000 per month towards their pension, and predicts that they face a tough time as they head towards retirement.

Wouldn't that be some people's salaries? Even if I put 1,000 pounds in retirement pensions, that leaves me with 1,300 post tax. I still have to pay rent, food and live... I think I'm pretty well paid. This way, I'll be no better than a pawper.

Am I missing something here?

[Injin]

anyone paying into a pension is insane. itll be worthless in the future. imagine that, hundreds of pounds a month for decades, and bugger all at the end. pension laws can be changed with the stroke of a pen and if you dont like it, then i'm afraid you are a Terrorist and must be detained.

better to use the money now.

the very idea of a pension is ludicrous anyway - pay money to some anonymous corporate entity for 40 years who could go bust at any second, and then you retire - get a small lump sum (taxed) and then HAVE to by law then put your own money right back into the same thieving system to buy a pittence of an income from.

people are waking up - pensions are rubbish, unless they are public sector gold plated ones that are massively subsidised. even then, will the public sector pay out in 40 years? will the public sector as we know it exist? will the UK exist?

anyone seriously expecting to work till 65 then live on £25000 (adjusted for inflation) for the next 20 years is suffering from some form of mental delusion.

you'll be working until you collapse at your work post, or alternatively, you'll be able to join the poor house.

seriously, the golden age of fat pensions is over, but for a select few of our overlords.

Agreed. Demographics say "no".

[waiting_to_exile]

anyone paying into a pension is insane. itll be worthless in the future. imagine that, hundreds of pounds a month for decades, and bugger all at the end. pension laws can be changed with the stroke of a pen and if you dont like it, then i'm afraid you are a Terrorist and must be detained.

I don't quite follow your logic. A pension is little more than a financial instrument with a certain taxation designation and restrictions on access, it's very little different to a bank account or a share dealing account. If the argument is that you shouldn't put your money in a pension because the darned guh'mint can come and take it away from you then it's just another form of suggesting that you put all your money in gold bars under the floorboards.

If you pay into a pension with the idea that it is somehow guaranteed to see you right in your old age, then sure, you need to think again. On the other hand, not paying into a pension when your employer is offering percentage matching (hey, free money!) or just to get the tax benefits because you have some idea that everything is designed purely to steal from you seems pretty crazy to me.

[ruggedtoast]

people are waking up - pensions are rubbish, unless they are public sector gold plated ones that are massively subsidised.

Praise be! I am paying into just such a pension. Final salary with 2/3 employer contribution. Problem is if I spend much longer working in the public sector ill probably end up jumping off a bridge and never get to claim any of it.

[Guest KingCharles1st]

So apart from doctors, solicitors, and mill owners, there is nothing left pensio wise for the lackey classes.

Does this mean Mrs Thatcher Gordon Brown has finally totally and utterly 100% re-established & gauranteed the old class system...

[It is different this time]

Gordon Brown warns that people are not saving enough towards their retirement.

he should have been a comedian! Hellooo Mr Miracle people don't have enough money left to save towards their retirement because they are too busy paying the ridiculous house prices created by your miracle economy

[Butthead]

I don't quite follow your logic. A pension is little more than a financial instrument with a certain taxation designation and restrictions on access, it's very little different to a bank account or a share dealing account. If the argument is that you shouldn't put your money in a pension because the darned guh'mint can come and take it away from you then it's just another form of suggesting that you put all your money in gold bars under the floorboards.

If you pay into a pension with the idea that it is somehow guaranteed to see you right in your old age, then sure, you need to think again. On the other hand, not paying into a pension when your employer is offering percentage matching (hey, free money!) or just to get the tax benefits because you have some idea that everything is designed purely to steal from you seems pretty crazy to me.

Exactly.

Those that want to play around with projections of pension benefits at various contribution levels can use this calculator from AXA:

https://my.axa.co.uk/genesys/aslimpweb?cont...f&path=page

Scary what you need to contribute isn't it?

[Bug16]

Problem is if I spend much longer working in the public sector ill probably end up jumping off a bridge and never get to claim any of it.

You can take it with you if you leave the public sector.

[r thritis]

You can take it with you if you leave the public sector.

But not if you leave by jumping off a bridge.

[Icantbelieveitsnotbutter]

This whole debate is one of the things that disturbs me most on the long term prospects for this country.

Whilst Thatcher and successors were derided for the misselling of pensions - the problem was more particularly the usual British disease of stuff the customer with a poor deal, and not the underlying principal of encouraging people to save for their retirement - looking back one can at least see long term thinking and action (albeit lacking sufficient consumer protection) which, IFA greed aside, should have generated long-term beneficial changes in behaviour.

In the past 10 years though, pensions has been an area of political point-scoring by the newly ensconsed Govt, a vehicle for substantial tax raising, and a series of reactive headline grabbing initiatives which were ill-thought out and most often counterproductive. I personally find it hypocritical in the extreme to hear a man who has raided not £5bn, but £5bn each year compounded up over now 10 years, and who oversaw the blocking of Frank Field's reforms - and the creation of a benefit trap whereby those for whom stakeholder pensions were created will see most of the savings wrenched back in mean-tested reduction of benefits - telling us to save more. He is at the heart of the reasons why everyone writing on this subject seems to indicate an understandable lack of confidence in the system.

Promise to remove modest pensions savings from means testing and securely ring-fence funds irrevocably from the Treasury and you'll stand more of a chance.

So why should I worry? Well, do the maths - we read about the constantly escalating promises (and employment levels) to the public sector, endless climb-downs to avoid bad news, all of which is not being paid for today, but will be paid by a shrinking proportion of the population on a pay as you go basis for decades. Seems to me to be not unlike the gerrymandering of Westminster Council. I am young enough to be in the group that will pay for the current promises, I'll have to pay twice.

At least though we might be able to watch Italy's fate, which is more imminent, while we can still afford to watch telly.

And before you ask, I'm not a financial adviser.

[PricedOutNative]

Cluck in bell, I've just used that pensions calculator

[harris]

Nope, people are pi**ing their money against the wall in their pursuit of some nadir of happiness which can aparently only be gained by having a TV that is too big for their sitting room and a flash car in the drive and two holidays to the Carribean each year.

People aren't that shallow that they would be happy with just that.

They won't find true happiness until they have found a big enough house for their TV.

[Tonester]

I am far from confident about the way my pension is invested. However, for every 5% I contribute the company I work for contributes 5%. That is surely not to be scoffed at?

[US Citizen]

Gordon Brown warns that people are not saving enough towards their retirement.

Figures suggest that the average worker in the UK is saving less than £1,000 per month towards their pension, and predicts that they face a tough time as they head towards retirement.

I agree with Gordon Brown completly. The people of this great nation are NOT saving £1000 per month towards their retirement.

Now we have cleared that up Gordon, do you have any other statements you want to come out with, such as :

"Pensioners cannot afford council tax" or

"Immigration under Labour is at meltdown proportions" or maybe even

"House prices are at record levels and beyond affordability".

Its good to know that we are in such safe hands (NOT).

[AvidFan]

Gordon Brown warns that people are not saving enough towards their retirement.

Figures suggest that the average worker in the UK is saving less than £1,000 per month towards their pension, and predicts that they face a tough time as they head towards retirement.

To be honest, if he hadn't got rid of dividend tax relief we'd probably have more final salary schemes still open and the private equity vultures wouldn't have hollowed out just about every UK company.

But then since he'd have probably still sold our gold, what's the point of having a pension of 20K of "worthless GBP" over 10K of "worthless GBP"?

Edited January 7, 2008 by AvidFan

[laurejon]

Peter Hain has warned of a "nightmare" for future pensioners and taxpayers if more people do not start saving for their retirement.

The work and pensions secretary said up to seven million people were not saving enough, during a Pensions Bill debate.

The bill, which ensures all workers are enrolled in a pension, would "transform the savings culture", he said.

The Tories say one million more people face retirement without a company pension than when Labour took power.

Mr Hain was speaking during the Second Reading of the Pensions Bill - which will ensure people are either registered in a company pension scheme - or the government's new personal accounts, unless they opt out, by 2012.

[Injin]

Peter Hain has warned of a "nightmare" for future pensioners and taxpayers if more people do not start saving for their retirement.

The work and pensions secretary said up to seven million people were not saving enough, during a Pensions Bill debate.

The bill, which ensures all workers are enrolled in a pension, would "transform the savings culture", he said.

The Tories say one million more people face retirement without a company pension than when Labour took power.

Mr Hain was speaking during the Second Reading of the Pensions Bill - which will ensure people are either registered in a company pension scheme - or the government's new personal accounts, unless they opt out, by 2012.

That's because Peter Hain is a dipshit.

There is no amount of money you can save that will make it easy for pensioners.

Money is only used to divide up relatively recent production, see. When the boomers start to hit the pensions in earnest, the producers will be a smaller group. So. either the producers get really productive really quick (and don't mind their production being taken from them to be given to strangers) or pensioners are getting a lot less than they think they are.

[waiting_to_exile]

I agree with Gordon Brown completly. The people of this great nation are NOT saving £1000 per month towards their retirement.

Now we have cleared that up Gordon, do you have any other statements you want to come out with, such as :

Although plenty of people in this thread seem to be happy to believe it, the OP provides no links and as the last government pension plan I heard about was pinning maximum yearly contributions at £3,600 -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6752181.stm -- I assume it is satire of some sort. The baseless frothing in response is funnier though.