talby Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 One story from yesterday sums it all up :- http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/20...-89520-20054971 A pizza shop supervisor who was replaced by cheap foreign workers has won a claim for unfair dismissal. Kevin Lewis, 26, on £6 an hour, was ordered to move to a Dominos branch 20 miles away when three Poles and an Iranian were hired on £5.35 an hour. He recorded franchise boss Talib Al Kadhimi telling him to go or lose his Liverpool job, an employment tribunal heard But he couldn't get there. Mr Kadhimi had hired foreigners and they paid him for accommodation. Mr Lewis' solicitor Selen Deakin told Mr Kadhimi: "They were financially tied to you. If you let them go, you wouldn't get your money back." Advertisement Click here to find out more! Mr Lewis said: "Employers break the law by using all kinds of dodges." Damages will be decided next month. The Blair/Brown legacy - slavery reintroduced. Where I work (in IT) it's cheap Indians replacing sacked UK workers, same across the whole "industry". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextBigThing Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 TommyAs for legal immigration I am not too convinced it's bad and I am not too convinced is necessarily suppressing wage inflation. How many times do you have to be provided with the stats and ignore it? How many times do members of the BOE have to sing the praises of migrant labour bringing down wage infation for you to to wake up to the reality of the situation? Question: Do you apply this angst over migrant labour to yourself? Do you condemn it when English people move to other countries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realistbear Posted November 4, 2007 Author Share Posted November 4, 2007 This is the question that everyone I know is asking, and no one is answering. For a government to ignore the people's concerns is foolish - in the extreme. I go along with Jefferson:The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object." Sadly the jerks in the UK have lost sight of this. A decade of one party in power is perhaps too long. It goes to their heads and they become arrogant. We are essentially a one-party state after Blair with Gordon simply taking on the Tories policies as his former boss did. The dissappearance of the "working class" gave rise to a demand for a party that will represent the interests of the middle classes who like to buy houses and make money on them. GC2 will be very healthy for us in the long term. The poisions that have been lurking in the mud are all hatching out now and it will probably be quite a few years before a healing process can begin. Not much we can do other than to sit back and watch NuLabour and the economy self destruct. The hard part is knowing how to avoid the falling bricks and mortar that will be raining down over the next couple or three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubsie Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 A decade of one party in power is perhaps too long. It goes to their heads and they become arrogant. We are essentially a one-party state after Blair with Gordon simply taking on the Tories policies as his former boss did. The dissappearance of the "working class" gave rise to a demand for a party that will represent the interests of the middle classes who like to buy houses and make money on them. GC2 will be very healthy for us in the long term. The poisions that have been lurking in the mud are all hatching out now and it will probably be quite a few years before a healing process can begin. Not much we can do other than to sit back and watch NuLabour and the economy self destruct. The hard part is knowing how to avoid the falling bricks and mortar that will be raining down over the next couple or three years. Good post, another problem will be whether the next party will do anything to stop it getting any worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smell the Fear Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 This must surely signal a watershed event, the Guardian printing an article suggesting that the UK is out of control. Guardian comment is free "a Labour Prime Minister comes out with a BNP slogan of 'British jobs for British people' that would provoke a police investigation if an employer put it on a recruitment ad? David Cameron talked last week of 'unsustainable demographic change', safe in the knowledge that the old charge that the Tories had 'lurched to the right' would no longer stick. For voters from the middle and working classes, left and right, immigration is now their chief concern." "The trouble is the government doesn't know who they are, where they are, how long they will stay or when they will go. The public senses it, and worries." and the comments: "Labour have turned the UK into cheap labour camp, to say it's a race to the bottom is an understatement. Obviously, that's what they mean when they warble on about the benefits of globalisation. Well it's going to get a lot worse when the economy tanks and there aren't any jobs. " "I lived in London until June 2007 and it was difficult not to sense that it was a dystopia in the making. As someone who was poor and yet university educated after having lived abroad for many years I could only detect an oceanic mood of collective unease enlivened by frantic hedonism." The huge wave of immigrants from EE was a result of the boom cash washing around the UK and London in particular. A few came initially, if the economy had been more subdued at the time they would have returned home or at least informed their friends and family that there was little point in coming. When the tide goes out the majority will probably leave again. The other side of the debate is the millions who are here illegally about whom nothing is being done.They are living third world lives in ghettos hidden all over the UK. These ghettos may be as small as a single house with occupants living 4 to a room, but they are still there. It is wrong for our government to treat these people in this way. If employers won't pay a living wage they shouldn't be in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffian Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 True, except that many of the "chavs" currently on benefits, if forced to work, would not be very productive as they are "not bothered".I agree with you, if you are able to work, young and healthy, benefits should be reduced as chances are you do not want to work (but if you have disabilities or any other real problem then benefits should be increased). Still, if I had my own company and I had the option to employ some hard working Polish people or, for the same money, some chavs I would not think twice and I would go for the foreigners. The vast majority of natives are very skilled, hard-working and dedicated, but you have to admit that for minimum wage jobs the situation is different. It's all about incentive. If the figures I've read are correct, in Polish terms the British minimum wage is equivalent to something like £21 an hour, or nearly £44 grand a year assuming a 40-hour working week. Now, if you were to offer some "chavs" the rate of £21 per hour I'm sure they'd very quickly become "bovvered". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextBigThing Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Yes absolutely. Britain for the British. Yes. That old sentiment. They must stay away from our country (except when we want cheap labour) but should accept us everywhere we go. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidhpc Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 (edited) Yes. That old sentiment. They must stay away from our country (except when we want cheap labour) but should accept us everywhere we go. Nice. rubbish. try living in asia or many other places. you can't own land or property, have to show money in the bank to be able to stay there, can't own businesses, can't do any job a local can do, can't have citizenships, dual pricing where you have to pay more than locals for things, have to put up with 'No Foreigner' signs. i could go on. Edited November 4, 2007 by davidhpc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 It's all about incentive. If the figures I've read are correct, in Polish terms the British minimum wage is equivalent to something like £21 an hour, or nearly £44 grand a year assuming a 40-hour working week. Now, if you were to offer some "chavs" the rate of £21 per hour I'm sure they'd very quickly become "bovvered". well, i get your point, but it's not very accurate... English minimum wage in Poland would be a very good salary, true, but once they come here, minimum wage is not so good anymore because the cost of living here is much much higher. Anyway, ignore this for a moment... Let's talk about "chavs" on £21 pounds per hour... Do you think that chavs would migrate to another country, learn a new language, try hard to find a job and finally work very hard if they could potentially find in that country a job that pays £21 pounds an hour (which let's say it's the minimum wage in that country)? My answer is no! Chavs would probably take a job here for £21 an hour and work relatively hard, but many would not go through all the hassle that the some Polish people are currently going through. The Polish people we get over here tend to be very determinate and hard-working, I feel we get a good selection of them. The chavs are instead a selection of lazy English people. So you cannot compare apples with oranges. Illegal immigration is again completely different, it's a selection of bad people, but I think with legal immigration we get very hard-working people. Now, go back to the example where a chav could earn £21 pounds in a foreign country... add to the equation the fact that the cost of living is much much higher there and once they get over there £21 pounds an hour is basically just a bit more than the minimum wage over here. Now the chances of them moving to this other contry is next to 0%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Boy Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 rubbish. try living in asia or many other places. you can't own land or property, have to show money in the bank to be able to stay there, can't own businesses, can't do any job a local can do, can't have citizenships, dual pricing where you have to pay more than locals for things, have to put up with 'No Foreigner' signs.i could go on. Yes but we are far superior to those ragheads. do we really want to sink to their level ? of course not. Live and let live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespasian Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 One story from yesterday sums it all up :-http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/20...-89520-20054971 A pizza shop supervisor who was replaced by cheap foreign workers has won a claim for unfair dismissal. Kevin Lewis, 26, on £6 an hour, was ordered to move to a Dominos branch 20 miles away when three Poles and an Iranian were hired on £5.35 an hour. He recorded franchise boss Talib Al Kadhimi telling him to go or lose his Liverpool job, an employment tribunal heard But he couldn't get there. Mr Kadhimi had hired foreigners and they paid him for accommodation. Mr Lewis' solicitor Selen Deakin told Mr Kadhimi: "They were financially tied to you. If you let them go, you wouldn't get your money back." Advertisement Click here to find out more! Mr Lewis said: "Employers break the law by using all kinds of dodges." Damages will be decided next month. The Blair/Brown legacy - slavery reintroduced. Where I work (in IT) it's cheap Indians replacing sacked UK workers, same across the whole "industry". In fairness to dominos, the price of cheese has gone up, and their pizzas are already expensive. Cheaper labour is the only way forward. I`m not being hard on the guy, but c`est la vie. The yanks already have plenty of coloureds to do this work. We need poles/whatever. Unless we get our own chavs off benefits and into work, thats life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 (edited) In order to emigrate to Canada I had to:1. Wait in a queue for three years. 2. Prove I could speak the language well. 3. Prove I had useful qualifications. 4. Prove I had useful work experience. 5. Prove I had no serious health problems or infectious diseases. 6. Prove I had enough money to support myself for at least a year. 7. Prove I had no criminal record. 8. Pass a background check by the Canadian equivalent of MI5. Now I'm here, I don't get welfare (beyond basic healthcare, but since I passed the medical I'm unlikely to need it) and I can be kicked out if I commit a serious crime. Why shouldn't Britain be the same? Why should it have an open door to 'outcasts' and the 'scum of the Earth' when it could restrict immigration to 'honest and decent people'? Does Britain really need to ship in cleaners and fast food workers from thousands of miles away? The case of the half Filllipino/half Italian teenage thug who knived the school headmaster to death is an eye-opener.... He was an Italian passport holder who'd lived here a while and the press and EVEN the government are outraged he can't be deported when he's released from prison..... But what did they expect when they signed up to the free movement of people??????? You can't deport an undesirable Pole or Italian or Romanian any more than you can ''deport'' an undesirable Briton from London back to where he originally came from in the Uk.....It is a fundamental principle of free movement...and only in the case of national security can you do it Domino's pizzas are too dear!......any half-decent non-franchised place will do them a lot cheaper Edited November 4, 2007 by Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 well, i get your point, but it's not very accurate...English minimum wage in Poland would be a very good salary, true, but once they come here, minimum wage is not so good anymore because the cost of living here is much much higher. Anyway, ignore this for a moment... Let's talk about "chavs" on £21 pounds per hour... Do you think that chavs would migrate to another country, learn a new language, try hard to find a job and finally work very hard if they could potentially find in that country a job that pays £21 pounds an hour (which let's say it's the minimum wage in that country)? My answer is no! Chavs would probably take a job here for £21 an hour and work relatively hard, but many would not go through all the hassle that the some Polish people are currently going through. The Polish people we get over here tend to be very determinate and hard-working, I feel we get a good selection of them. The chavs are instead a selection of lazy English people. So you cannot compare apples with oranges. Illegal immigration is again completely different, it's a selection of bad people, but I think with legal immigration we get very hard-working people. Now, go back to the example where a chav could earn £21 pounds in a foreign country... add to the equation the fact that the cost of living is much much higher there and once they get over there £21 pounds an hour is basically just a bit more than the minimum wage over here. Now the chances of them moving to this other contry is next to 0%. but in Poland wages are a fifth of uk levels and only certain things are very cheap..Bananas 90p a kilo like here and consumer goods aren't cheaper and clothes are actually cheaper here! Things like haircuts and accommodation are much cheaper though .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespasian Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Domino's pizzas are too dear!......any half-decent non-franchised place will do them a lot cheaper No, just reassuringly expensive, plus you can order online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grime- skint wouldbe ftb Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 franchise boss Talib Al Kadhimi telling him to go or lose his Liverpool job On a day when another Tory politician is sacrificed for representing his constituency vis a vis the Rivers of Blood speech, it is worth remembering the bit about "gaining the whip hand" ...... Civil war in the UK : 10 - 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidhpc Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 well, i get your point, but it's not very accurate...English minimum wage in Poland would be a very good salary, true, but once they come here, minimum wage is not so good anymore because the cost of living here is much much higher. Anyway, ignore this for a moment... Let's talk about "chavs" on £21 pounds per hour... Do you think that chavs would migrate to another country, learn a new language, try hard to find a job and finally work very hard if they could potentially find in that country a job that pays £21 pounds an hour (which let's say it's the minimum wage in that country)? My answer is no! Chavs would probably take a job here for £21 an hour and work relatively hard, but many would not go through all the hassle that the some Polish people are currently going through. The Polish people we get over here tend to be very determinate and hard-working, I feel we get a good selection of them. The chavs are instead a selection of lazy English people. So you cannot compare apples with oranges. Illegal immigration is again completely different, it's a selection of bad people, but I think with legal immigration we get very hard-working people. Now, go back to the example where a chav could earn £21 pounds in a foreign country... add to the equation the fact that the cost of living is much much higher there and once they get over there £21 pounds an hour is basically just a bit more than the minimum wage over here. Now the chances of them moving to this other contry is next to 0%. your tone is very, very rude towards millions of very hardworking british people. suggesting immigrants will work harder than british people is an insult. being Polish does not make you hard-working. being british does not make you lazy. do you have some loathing or dislike of british people? is that your agenda? unskilled british people would go work abroad in droves for £21 an hour. living ten to a house could give £400-£500 per week saved. four/five years of work and they could return and buy a modest house outright. Millions would leave tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespasian Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 2 points 1 Poles who work here also have to live here, i.e. they have to pay for food, accommodation, taxes and whatever else. If they send the rest home, good for them! 2 I don`t see these people going to work to readily unless we halve their benefits now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 1 Poles who work here also have to live here, i.e. they have to pay for food, accommodation, taxes and whatever else. There's a huge difference between living four to a room and eating baked beans for four years while you pay off your house back home, and having to live four to a room and eat baked beans for your entire life because you'll never earn enough to do any better. How can someone who's going to spend their entire life in the UK possibly compete with someone who's only there for a few years to become 'rich' back home, and is willing to live in squalor to achieve that? You simply cannot have open borders when there are such divergences between cost and standard of living in different countries; it's insane. Once the housing market does crash and people no longer believe they can get rich by sitting in their overpriced ex-council flat, immigration policy is going to be one of the biggest hot potatoes in British politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidhpc Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 2 points 1 Poles who work here also have to live here, i.e. they have to pay for food, accommodation, taxes and whatever else. If they send the rest home, good for them! 2 I don`t see these people going to work to readily unless we halve their benefits now they look remarkably like some polish guys i saw in the city centre today. are they polish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Murdered by cheap food: four firemen killed searching for low-paid migrant workers This is London 00:23 http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...to=newsnow& Brigade chief 'sent firefighter son to his death' in inferno which claimed four officers' lives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespasian Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 they look remarkably like some polish guys i saw in the city centre today. are they polish? No, its me (in the middle) and my mates out on Friday night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 One for doubting Tommy. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/columnis..._author_id=1906 So why not leave Northern Rock as a state-sponsored smouldering ruin, whose very presence will ensure that the MPC maintains cheap credit for a very long time? Because, alas, it could well be that the gravitational force holding down rates is not the credit crunch at all but another big news story. 'The main reason is that wage inflation has stayed low,' said Trevor Williams, economist at Lloyds TSB. 'And it has stayed low as a result of immigration.' Or, as Lord (Digby) Jones, then the employers' leader and now a Labour Trade Minister, put it approvingly on August 20, 2006: 'Wage inflation has not been a problem. Immigrants are doing the work for less.' In other words, the real purpose of our 'diverse' and 'vibrant' soaring population is to hold your wages down. The only consolation is that it holds down your mortgage payments at the same time. Presumably, this is the 'platform of economic stability' about which we have heard so much for so many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespasian Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 There's a huge difference between living four to a room and eating baked beans for four years while you pay off your house back home, and having to live four to a room and eat baked beans for your entire life because you'll never earn enough to do any better. Not a lot of difference, just a lot of farts To be honest, I`m from Northern Ireland. Many Irish guys have worked in the US/UK and other countries for a few years to earn money to bring home. If there is no work at home, you can`t blame them. In a generation, UK citizens will be working in Poland because they will be as rich as us. The reason why the government haven`t limited immigration is because they know Brits won`t bloody work in the lower paid jobs. Better to claim jobseekers allowance, housing benefit and disability allowance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Vespasian The shit will hit the fan big time when those losing higher paid work need funds to tide them over to cover the mortgage. They will find not only that they can;t get equivalent paying jobs, they'll find that they will struggle to get anything above a min wage job. A min wage job will be next to useless paying for anything other than a miniscule mortgage. As the stories of bailiffs throwing people out of their homes escalate people reading these stories will realise just how fragile their own circumstances have been made will be very nervous/upset indeed that they could be put in exactly the same situation. The promise of a cheap nanny will pale into insignificance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespasian Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 VespasianThe shit will hit the fan big time when those losing higher paid work need funds to tide them over to cover the mortgage. They will find not only that they can;t get equivalent paying jobs, they'll find that they will struggle to get anything above a min wage job. A min wage job will be next to useless paying for anything other than a miniscule mortgage. As the stories of bailiffs throwing people out of their homes escalate people reading these stories will realise just how fragile their own circumstances have been made will be very nervous/upset indeed that they could be put in exactly the same situation. The promise of a cheap nanny will pale into insignificance. I agree, as they say, the perfect economic storm is approaching - adapt or die. headlines will be spending cuts, inflation and hard-luck stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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