Chaos Just Broken Out Over Immigration Data

[Realistbear]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...migrants103.xml

Growing chaos over migrant workers

Last Updated: 3:07am GMT 03/11/2007

Fresh doubts over the Government's immigration figures emerged last night after new statistics showed that

almost one million

people from

outside Europe

have been given the right to work in Britain over the past three years...../

Over the same period

only 406,000 permits were issued to non-Europeans

.

Truth comes out in drips and drabs. Gordon has been caught misleading the public. Reisgnation is in order.

Edited November 3, 2007 by Realistbear

[OnlyMe]

Step i) Mass immigration

Step ii) Mass unemployment

100% guaranteed.

Displacement is occuring on a much wider and deeper scale than even I had assumed. There is a fundamental mismatch between the earnings required for a permanent resident of this country and a temporary one and a fundamentla mismatch between the vlaue of any earnins to a permanent resident of this coutnry and a temporary one.

The permanent resident, all other considerations being eqaul will lose out every time if the employer is only looking the the bottom line.

Edited November 3, 2007 by OnlyMe

[Vespasian]

Why, why, why am I not surprised. More in to work, more tax for greedy Gordo. Who cares where they come from!

With so many million actually not working, maybe we should have concentrated on getting people working by making it less lucrative to be on benefits. Maybe, a "Get a chav to work" campaign

[OnlyMe]

Vespasian

Next stage, more out of work and forced onto the scrapheap.

There seem to be many ways to shift resources around espcially for the big boys, especially this one, - lose down a facility here (there is no demand, the business is losing money), hand out P45's, magically shift the work to another location the next day with a new workforce.

[davidhpc]

on top of the tax, it has also kept the wage bill down for big business while keeping wage increases down for the poorest people in the country.

[BTLlivingthedream]

If we do have a recession then they will leave again. The vast majority are economic migrants, just like the vast majority of Brits that leave to go abroad.

[OnlyMe]

BTLlivingthedream

Most will not leave until the jobs market is utterly shredded and they give up hope of finding another reltively well paid job that will provide them with the dream lifestyle back home.

[stuckmojo]

Gordon's point of view is:

let in as many people as possible, give them credit cards, and let them SPEND as much as possible. Even if they are all in benefits (most of which will be at some point) as long as credit keeps flowing he wins.

oh, hang-on!

[Realistbear]

Gordon now has 2 famous lines:

No more Boom and Bust

British Jobs for British Workers

We just want one more Mr. Brown:

"Och, I quit then"

[Justice]

This does not suprise me and i remember saying a few years ago that if the goverment was only letting in 120k pa then they were all folowing me around the country.

too late to just consider closeing the door and time to think about how much it will cost us to get some removed

[Vespasian]

Absolutely,

The majority of the money in this country is achieved by financial services in London. Scotland & Wales - 60% state employment, NI - 70%. As we already know, the "city" is in for quite a downturn.

While importing cheap labour is in some ways a smart move to maintain temporary competitiveness, it is not a viable long term solution. 1,000,000 non-EU, FFS!

Do we not have enough people on the scrapheap, with no education or training? As a country, how can we afford to keep this growing underclass fed and clothed, while still importing more and more to do the lowpaid jobs???

[sikejsudjek]

I doubt many immigrants will leave if they have become eligible for benefits when the downturn comes. We already have a massive imbalance where you can be better off sitting on your backside and get social housing (assuming you have kids). What this means in a recession is a massive liability to the taxpayer, and social unrest.

Well done NuLab - your social experiment of mass immigration is about to blow up. We are in no shape to cope with a recession. Massively in debt, too much reliance on financial services, Mac jobs and retail. Too big a public sector, too much borrowing. When the downturn comes, it will be much worse than the last recession. The very last thing we need are millions of immigrants.

[ruggedtoast]

on top of the tax, it has also kept the wage bill down for big business while keeping wage increases down for the poorest people in the country.

Thats exactly why its allowed. And the main beneficiaries in big business, i.e. the Ruperts and Henriettas in Mayfair, as well as being totally insulated from the negative social effects then fiddle the tax system so they provide minimal support to poor areas that are affected.

[Bearback]

Absolutely,

The majority of the money in this country is achieved by financial services in London. Scotland & Wales - 60% state employment, NI - 70%. As we already know, the "city" is in for quite a downturn.

While importing cheap labour is in some ways a smart move to maintain temporary competitiveness, it is not a viable long term solution. 1,000,000 non-EU, FFS!

Do we not have enough people on the scrapheap, with no education or training? As a country, how can we afford to keep this growing underclass fed and clothed, while still importing more and more to do the lowpaid jobs???

Link please!

[Tommy]

With so many million actually not working, maybe we should have concentrated on getting people working by making it less lucrative to be on benefits. Maybe, a "Get a chav to work" campaign

True, except that many of the "chavs" currently on benefits, if forced to work, would not be very productive as they are "not bothered".

I agree with you, if you are able to work, young and healthy, benefits should be reduced as chances are you do not want to work (but if you have disabilities or any other real problem then benefits should be increased). Still, if I had my own company and I had the option to employ some hard working Polish people or, for the same money, some chavs I would not think twice and I would go for the foreigners.

The vast majority of natives are very skilled, hard-working and dedicated, but you have to admit that for minimum wage jobs the situation is different.

[Guest AuntJess]

Gordon now has 2 famous lines:

No more Boom and Bust

British Jobs for British Workers

We just want one more Mr. Brown:

"Och, I quit then"

Music to my ears, but I have a nil chance of hearing them. Mr B. is drunk with power. Prising him out of office will be harder than prising a barnacle off a rock.

Edited November 3, 2007 by AuntJess

[Tommy]

on top of the tax, it has also kept the wage bill down for big business while keeping wage increases down for the poorest people in the country.

Not true, the minimum wage in October 2003 was £4.20 in October 2007 became £5.52.

This is a compound annual growth rate of just over 7%.

7% each year is way above inflation.

If anything, minimum wages have been growing too fast! We would all like the minum wage to be much higher and everyone to be out of poverty, but truth is business would go out of business if this happened... I think 7% is as fast as it gets!

[Guest AuntJess]

Link please!

I think it is a guess - which I tend to agree with - based on the assumption that qualified bods are leaving " the sinking ship" because they CAN. Under-qualified, poor individuals don't have an option to emigrate to a land where they will get more given, from the taxes they pay.

After all if 1000 Brits a day are leaving, they MUST be suitable immigrant material to satisfy their host country to-be. Otherwise they wouldn't be being let in...Unlike here.

Edited November 3, 2007 by AuntJess

[Vespasian]

Link please!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/c...icle2658643.ece

[CONDEX]

I think it is a guess - which I tend to agree with - based on the assumption that qualified bods are leaving " the sinking ship" because they CAN. Under-qualified, poor individuals don't have an option to emigrate to a land where they will get more given, from the taxes they pay.

After all if 1000 Brits a day are leaving, they MUST be suitable immigrant material to satisfy their host country to-be. Otherwise they wouldn't be being let in...Unlike here.

"MUST be suitable immigrant material to satisfy their host country to-be"

Not neccesarily, I work in IT for an investment bank and some of the Indian staff

they bring over on visas are not very good at all, just they are cheaper than

a UK employee..

A lot of our Indian off-shores are on somethink like £5-7K a year, which is a salary over there.

Edited November 3, 2007 by CONDEX

[davidhpc]

Not true, the minimum wage in October 2003 was £4.20 in October 2007 became £5.52.

This is a compound annual growth rate of just over 7%.

7% each year is way above inflation.

If anything, minimum wages have been growing too fast! We would all like the minum wage to be much higher and everyone to be out of poverty, but truth is business would go out of business if this happened... I think 7% is as fast as it gets!

what about people on 5.52 in 2003, how much has theirs gone up?

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

Britain is drowning... Hitler couldn't destroy us with bombs, but the left have destroyed Britain's heart with multicultural Balkanisation on an industrial scale. And speaking of the Balkans, "British" Muslims are getting terrorsit training in the Islamic former Yugoslavia... NATO was fighting on the wrong side on that war...

There are loads of Indian IT workers earning 60, 70, 80K+ in London and the surrounds.

Emigration is white flight by any other word... why are Australia and New Zealand so popular? Its obvious.

[Tommy]

what about people on 5.52 in 2003, how much has theirs gone up?

Could be anything, from 0% (cannot go down from there since it's now minimum wage) to a billion percent...

On average it will be somewhere around 3.5% per year, so it's likely to be now around £6.35, which is definately in line with inflation. ( http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285 )

I am sure you can tell me many cases of people who got 0% one year and then 2% another year, back to 0% and then maybe 2% and are now on £5.75, but then I could maybe tell you about someone who was earning 5.52 and it's now earning 8 per hour (without promotion).

[Vespasian]

True, except that many of the "chavs" currently on benefits, if forced to work, would not be very productive as they are "not bothered".

While your opinion has much merit, it has one major drawback - it is based on the current chav/NEET economic and social situation. Change this and the "not bothered" situation changes

If people were forced to do unskilled work, they would have less time to hang around McDonalds in burberry all day and work on modifying their vauxhall novas

I work in the health service, and was transferring a sick lady to intensive care last year. As we were waiting for the bed to become available, I was chatting to her husband. He was in his late sixties and had recently retired. He had worked in the mines for many years, and then as a night watchman in a warehouse. The conversation then drifted to his children and what they did.

Talk about opening a floodgate! He tore into them, calling them useless layabouts, who lived on benefits and wouldn`t do an honest days work. He feared his grandchildren were heading them same direction. I asked why this was so, (not wanting to suggest he was a crap parent) - he said when he was growing up, the only way to get ahead was to get a job. Unlike, nowadays, where you can get what you want for doing nowt

The solution is to give those who choose not to work, no choice in the matter

[newaccount99]

We sub-scontract a large number of Indians (onshore and offshore) in our UK office from Indian outsourcing companies. We have been doing this for a number of years now (5 years). Their employers are responsible for securing their work permits/visas etc.

Over the last 2 years a common trend has started where the employees leave their Indian companies and then work directly for UK ones. We have actualy directly employed some of the sub-contractors. Many now have residency and are eligible to become UK citizens.

These (now UK citizens) are very hard working, capable and are net contributors of tax. Whilst I am delighted for them personally and see how businesses benefit from the deflationary wage effect they have.....I can't help but think the opportunities for new UK grads in this industry are now very limited.

Whilst I have enjoyed some 15 years post graduation of high earnings to pay for the cost of my education, new grads are looking at very muted earnings.