Hospital Hygeine Disgrace As Cleaners Told To Re-use Filthy Bed Linen To Cut Costs

[crash2006]

Horrified housekeeping staff were advised to, "top n' tail", sheets and pillow cases in a bid to slash the £500,000 laundry bill at Birmingham's Good Hope Hospital.

it really showing that the NHS cant cope any more its bust time now.

[NoIdea]

It was said quite recently by a HPCer who knows someone in the know that the NHS is close to bankruptcy.

This story is truly despicable. Something really is amiss is this country there is no denying. Its certainly not the place I remember as a child.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

It was said quite recently by a HPCer who knows someone in the know that the NHS is close to bankruptcy.

This story is truly despicable. Something really is amiss is this country there is no denying. Its certainly not the place I remember as a child.

Too many old people requiring too much intervention.

A cull would do wonders for NHS spending and house prices.

[Pindar]

And all the while a layer of useless fat cats and middle managers grow opulent on their parasitic cut of the loot. Sack the useless middle managers and idiot accountants and bring back the matron - the only way to run a hospital.

[NoIdea]

bring back the matron.

oh how true. how true. *sigh*

this country used to have a monopoly on common sense.

dont know what happened but we're surrounded by village idiots now.

Edited April 13, 2007 by NoIdea

[cells]

And all the while a layer of useless fat cats and middle managers grow opulent on their parasitic cut of the loot. Sack the useless middle managers and idiot accountants and bring back the matron - the only way to run a hospital.

currently the government spends roughly £550k per person in that persons lifetime

personally. i would suggest government spend only 150k [most of the would be on the army and big government projects]

then give 400k per person from the day they are born (earning interest in a high savings account]

the money in that account can only be spent on schools, hospitals, dentists, welfare ect.

then privities everything, nhs, dentists, schools the lot!

lets the people pay via this account for the private treatment

private companies don’t waste as it hits their profit. middlemen would disappear instantly

personally i think i could easily have afforded 15 years of private education, 21 years of private hospital/dentist treatment, and 60more years of hospital/retirement ect with 400k + interest

i would be shocked if at lest half the tax we pay isnt wasted

[Dr Doom]

The only reason the NHS thinks, and probably will, get away with such attrocities

is that it is a virtual monopoly.

The US system, which isn't perfect, still provides a much better level of service

on average than what we have here.

Throwing more money at the NHS will not solve this problem,

its already managed to swallow 10bn for a computer system that doesn't work;

the NHS needs to be shut-down and a more competitive market

needs to be created in healthcare.

[RichB]

Its simply the 'consultant' culture that bliar has encouraged. ******wits on a grand a day to sell ******** to each other.

[Ted D. Bear]

Readers may find The Welfare State We're In an interesting site. The chap who runs it wrote a book of the same name, and hence has at least some credibility as a researcher.

[Ipodjunky]

This is a result of contracting companies and management taking the piss and the persecution and exploitation of those who want to work hard. As soon as the last of the hard workers leave the NHS will break it's not far away as stated before. Doctors should refuse to treat Labour politicians and anybody involved in this scandal.

[cells]

The only reason the NHS thinks, and probably will, get away with such attrocities

is that it is a virtual monopoly.

The US system, which isn't perfect, still provides a much better level of service

on average than what we have here.

Throwing more money at the NHS will not solve this problem,

its already managed to swallow 10bn for a computer system that doesn't work;

the NHS needs to be shut-down and a more competitive market

needs to be created in healthcare.

i wish the conservatives would say that they would go after any and all PFI contracts they deem bad value for the UK once they are in power.

in that the companies will have their assets frozen and clawed back should it been seen that they where bad value for money

that ought to throw a spanner on this PFI shit we have, and spending 10billion on computer contracts what do we pay MI5 for, why haven’t they sent spies after these idiots

[Wad]

If you want to more in this vein from an insider I strongly recommend Dr Crippen:

http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/

[Smell the Fear]

The only reason the NHS thinks, and probably will, get away with such attrocities

is that it is a virtual monopoly.

The US system, which isn't perfect, still provides a much better level of service

on average than what we have here.

Throwing more money at the NHS will not solve this problem,

its already managed to swallow 10bn for a computer system that doesn't work;

the NHS needs to be shut-down and a more competitive market

needs to be created in healthcare.

The American system costs twice as much per capita as ours. The NHS crisis is purely a case of poor management and not enough money. We are told that it is consuming huge amounts, but like I said it is HALF what the American system costs per capita.

[Wad]

I am just wondering who is goung to 'top and tail' the sheets if all the staff are so priced out they cannot afford to live. Maybe they could cut the staff and get the patients to do it. When my sister had her baby she had to clean her maternity suite first (while in labour herself) I wil not go into the details of what she actually had to clean off the bed but apparently it was left there by someone giving birth several weeks before!

Moreover, I read recently that in some hospitals in some regions there are only 2 junior doctors on duty at night the rest are specialist nurses who are refusing to take responsibility for any treatment so they just get one of the two doctors to sign everything off - usually after having woken them up and a 16 hour day. Recipe for frequent mistakes I fear.

[cells]

The American system costs twice as much per capita as ours. The NHS crisis is purely a case of poor management and not enough money. We are told that it is consuming huge amounts, but like I said it is HALF what the American system costs per capita.

probably has to do with the compensation culture over there and the price doctors need to pay for insurance because of it

A doctor who delivered babies for over 20 years went on news saying he cant continue just because the insurance costs too much

Im not advocating their system as better since I don’t know enough about it, just tough this was a valid point to make

[Dr Doom]

The American system costs twice as much per capita as ours. The NHS crisis is purely a case of poor management and not enough money. We are told that it is consuming huge amounts, but like I said it is HALF what the American system costs per capita.

Twice? Do you have a source for that?

I agree they spend more per capita, but I didn't think it was as much as that.

Poor management, yes I will agree with that, but there is no way

to hold the poor management accountable because the NHS is a virtual

monopoly.

I'm not saying there is no waste in the US system, but there is less waste,

more choice for the patient, and more accountability.

Really shit hospitals go out of business fairly quickly.

[deano]

The American system costs twice as much per capita as ours. The NHS crisis is purely a case of poor management and not enough money. We are told that it is consuming huge amounts, but like I said it is HALF what the American system costs per capita.

And why is it, that a capitalist, market orientated system is less efficient than a service orientated system. It wouldn't be because more of the staff employed in the former are engaged in accountancy and more in the latter productivity would it.

Edited April 13, 2007 by deano

[peemac]

And why is it, that a capitalist, market orientated system is less efficient than a service orientated system. It wouldn't be because more of the staff employed in the former are engaged in accountancy and more in the latter productivity would it.

I rather suspect that that is exactly the case.

The NHS could do just fine and dandy on its current budget if a huge swathe of middle/senior management was culled and management handed to the practitioners i.e. a matron.

The hospitals wouldn't be so dirty if they didn't contract out cleaning to the highest bidder, who subsequently pays agency muppetts minimum wage to have a quick swizz round with a mop. They should be employing hard-workers on decent wages to scrub floors and actually clean the place.

Unbridled capitalism is, as far as I know supposed to result in a better value product through competition. Well at the interface between state and private enterprise that seems like a load of old baloney to me as contracts just get dished out between mates who then provide the worst acceptable service at the highest possible price. Using our money.

It seems to me that people are all too quick to have a go at the state employee, but these are people just trying to get along in life like everyone else. The real criminals are the so-called benefit underclass and the politicians and judiciary that allow them to exist.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

The American system costs twice as much per capita as ours. The NHS crisis is purely a case of poor management and not enough money. We are told that it is consuming huge amounts, but like I said it is HALF what the American system costs per capita.

Yes, the Americans are paid piecework style. Which means a lot of investigations are done which are often unnecessary.

If your employer is paying your medical insurance and you start costing them a lot of money, guess what? You lose your job.

Then what do you do? No income to pay bills privately.

You could I suppose argue that doing more investigations increases diagnostic accuracy, but you'll get diminishing returns.

Ultimately one could posit a system whereby everyone has a doctor each. You might live longer but it will be prohibitively expensive.

From a value for money point of view, at the frontline level we're all pretty cost conscious.

I agree that there are probably too many management players.

The use of clinical targets has improved the levels of care in things like heart disease and diabetes.

The long term problem with humans is that if you stop them dying of one thing, they'll live long enough to get something else which needs treating.

Which increases expense.

The problem is medicine always fails in the end because we all die.

There's also the infinite wants finite resources problem.

As for IT solutions, I feel the best way to service this is to provide an open set of standards for data formats and a set of standards for encrypted exchange and allow any companies/individuals to produce solutions on an open market. A monolithic IT system hidden behind non disclosure agreements run by the government seems very inefficient. Might be nice to actually ask the service users, both patients and staff what they want. In general NHS IT systems are fairly poor. I'd love to see a breakdown of where the billions for the national IT program are really going.

MRSA will always be around. It's just a resistant type of bug which commonly colonises human noses and skin. Usually it is not invasive, but in people who are unwell and have immune system compromise it can get out of hand and there are only a few antibioics which might get rid of it. Hopsitals are full of people carrying all sorts of pathogens in close proximity, MRSA outbreaks are to be expected.

We're all mortal folks, and genetically designed to live to about 40 years old.

And sometimes if you see a ward being run by minimal staff and you feel it's not quite as you'd like, why not volunteer to help, it'll probably be better than creating a complaint, paperwork and processing.

All those 50+ people we hear about who just work for the social contact rather than the money........

My best fit egalitarian solution to a tax funded healthcare system is to only provide people with the medications and treatments which were available at the time they were paying into the tax system.

Ludicrous but logical.

Edited April 13, 2007 by DissipatedYouthIsValuable

[peemac]

As for IT solutions, I feel the best way to service this is to provide an open set of standards for data formats and a set of standards for encrypted exchange and allow any companies/individuals to produce solutions on an open market. A monolithic IT system hidden behind non disclosure agreements run by the government seems very inefficient. Might be nice to actually ask the service users, both patients and staff what they want. In general NHS IT systems are fairly poor.

That's far too sensible an idea for the government. Besides how would they know which companies to take the directorships of when the contracts are being handed out.

[Carabansity]

We're all mortal folks, and genetically designed to live to about 40 years old.

My body fell apart at 40. I spent several unpleasant weeks in the care of the NHS last few years.

Highlights were being diagnosed with MRSA - when it was Strep A, but it didn't matter anyway as the teaboy used to serve everyone by holding the rim of the cup and no one nurses included made any attempt to clean hands, etc even though I had a big sign on door saying 'barrier nursing'.

Lying in bed with tubes coming out of most holes when two old crones appeared, got up on a step ladder and dusted huge amounts of crud all over me, nice.

Waking in the middle of the night to find a nurse (who could barely speak English) pumping me full of air instead of fluid - crash alarms do work thank god

A tube placed inside me after a long op fell out of place after 1 day and had to be removed in emergency circumstances with only a local to numb the point of entry

However, I am still here and it was all FREE at source, no quibble, no very expensive medical insurance. I have however been refused Critical Illness insurance so living under a US style NHS would be a disaster for me.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

That's far too sensible an idea for the government. Besides how would they know which companies to take the directorships of when the contracts are being handed out.

Yes, Im a hopeless dreamer. I'm also a GP who is beginning to feel that there is a market for providing quality private general practice.

I have moral qualms about affordability for those most in need, but this is balanced against my unease with central dictat, especially when

some of it involves skewing clinical priorities, seemingly to the benefit of blurring the boundaries of health and disease so that I increase the revenue

of pharmaceutical companies. I know they're one of the staples for pension fund investment, but I'm not skewing my practice for that.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

My body fell apart at 40. I spent several unpleasant weeks in the care of the NHS last few years.

Highlights were being diagnosed with MRSA - when it was Strep A, but it didn't matter anyway as the teaboy used to serve everyone by holding the rim of the cup and no one nurses included made any attempt to clean hands, etc even though I had a big sign on door saying 'barrier nursing'.

Lying in bed with tubes coming out of most holes when two old crones appeared, got up on a step ladder and dusted huge amounts of crud all over me, nice.

Waking in the middle of the night to find a nurse (who could barely speak English) pumping me full of air instead of fluid - crash alarms do work thank god

A tube placed inside me after a long op fell out of place after 1 day and had to be removed in emergency circumstances with only a local to numb the point of entry

However, I am still here and it was all FREE at source, no quibble, no very expensive medical insurance. I have however been refused Critical Illness insurance so living under a US style NHS would be a disaster for me.

Sounds a bit grim.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

probably has to do with the compensation culture over there and the price doctors need to pay for insurance because of it

A doctor who delivered babies for over 20 years went on news saying he cant continue just because the insurance costs too much

Im not advocating their system as better since I don’t know enough about it, just tough this was a valid point to make

I pay £4000 a year as a GP for indemnity insurance. Yes it is a business expense, but I still have to make that money.

Current rate of inflation is about 20% a year for that.

[happily renting]

The US is the last country you want to be looking to for how to run things. Unless you've got a lot of disposable income, you'll be needing insurance. (The uninsured have access to emergency services but are still charged.) Tens of millions of people live without this net. The system itself is a nightmare, and discourages job mobility as you typically get coverage through your employer. Better hope you don't have a "pre-existing condition" that your new insurer can refuse to cover. I'm a dual citizen and one of the reasons I'd never move back there, aside from the Bush factor, is the abominable state of healthcare.