When The Things You Own, Start To Own You, I See It, Do You?

[mad_dan]

This is not a rant about house prices, but the state of peoples finances

do you see it? everyday I see it

do you hear it? everyday I hear it

A few months back.... conversations over dinner, down the local or coffee with friends

My house is worth £xxxxxx, so I've borrowed against it's equity........

We have a new car

We have the just bought a 42' plasma TV

2 family holidays abroad

a plastic conservatory

B&Q decking in the garden

Now most of these people I know have families and most of them only have a single income as the wife tends to stay at home at look after the kids. Now most of these people are only on a modest income.

I am often quized as to how I earn a lot more money than they do, but I rarely seem to spend it. Now I am not tight by no means, my answer is always - I only buy something if i need it, or really want it, and not because you have one.

I am not interested in a white leather sofa, designer clothes or membership to a golf course etc. I have a nice house, a sports car and holidays etc. just because I don't spent all my weekends buying crap from superstores on credit. Only to spend the following week telling everyone you know how great my life is because you have the latest american style fridge.

now recently I have noticed that these same people have gone a little quiet and don't have much to talk about. Just the odd comment on how much the bills have gone up, they won't be coming out for dinner this week as mr X will be working overtime and they don't have much spare cash at the moment. They probably won't have a holiday this year etc.

Now I can see these people are finding it hard to make ends meet after the last couple of years of spending like theres no tomorrow....well tomorrow is here and now its repayment time.

this is the point when the things you own, start to own you.

When your in negative equity and in debt, everything else in your life gets the volume turned down....

don't be sucked in by credit.

Have a good day people,

Mad_dan

[AwaitingFairPrices]

now recently I have noticed that these same people have gone a little quiet and don't have much to talk about. Just the odd comment on how much the bills have gone up, they won't be coming out for dinner this week as mr X will be working overtime and they don't have much spare cash at the moment. They probably won't have a holiday this year etc.

Now I can see these people are finding it hard to make ends meet after the last couple of years of spending like theres no tomorrow....well tomorrow is here and now its repayment time.

this is the point when the things you own, start to own you.

When your in negative equity and in debt, everything else in your life gets the volume turned down....

don't be sucked in by credit.

Have a good day people,

Mad_dan

I agree totally. I have some friends who seems to have gone the same way. They were living it up, buying nice stuff that was very flash. Now, one has sold their Z3 as 'it guzzles fuel' and suddenly can't afford to do the degree they wanted to do. Another couple who still have the nice things they bought have suddenly started groaning about childcare costs and started bringing sandwiches to work instead of buying from sandwich man. Another cancelled completing on a BTL as they decided they are not interested in making money any more! (he's a bull and always disagrees with my bear talk).

They are only small things, but their attitudes are definitely different from last summer when they were throwing the cash about.

AFP

[Gone baby gone]

The stuff owning them vs them owning the stuff is even more insidious than HPI. People are fixated on brand names and the possession of mass produced products, telling eveyone where they are going on holiday and how big / expensive their houses are.

I seem to be bumping into more and more people who exist only on a consumer level, feeding themselves with plastic wrapped ready meals and filling their spare time with vacuous celebrity tripe.

[Chriso]

Nice quote from Fight Club.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, its not about a fighing club (well it is) but more about the futility of 'stuff'. At the end of the day none of this crap matters, all that matters are good friends, good family, good health, a job of substance and a house price crash.

[Gone baby gone]

Nice quote from Fight Club.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, its not about a fighing club (well it is) but more about the futility of 'stuff'. At the end of the day none of this crap matters, all that matters are good friends, good family, good health, a job of substance and a house price crash.

Fight club = one of the great films of the last 10 years. It even correctly points the finger at the banks.

[Wannabe]

Me too...

Sold my biz a year ago and since then have cut back on 'crap' spending. Now we get by comfortably on my wife's salary and me doing bits here and there.

Looking at down-sizing soon and leading a more sustainable life.

12 months ago we had total credit limit on 4 cards of £75k (FFS!) - Seem to manage OK now with 1 card with a £2K limit.

Also, spent last 3 years paying off mortgage - nearly there bar £5k. Will take great pleasure in selling soon 'mortgage-free'.

Sold gas guzzler and got a diesel estate - costs me about £200 pcm less to run.

HPC won't (thank god) affect me as much as it will the poor ba5tard5 who are sitting on recently purchased rabbit hutches, mortgaged up to the hilt and 5hitting their pants everytime the latest credit card statements hits the doormat.

Still manage to go out and enjoy ourselves - it is actually quite nice NOT to get into 'I've just bought the latest...' discussions anymore - sounds boring I know, but GOD I FEEL HAPPY.

[steve99]

Now most of these people I know have families and most of them only have a single income as the wife tends to stay at home at look after the kids. Now most of these people are only on a modest income.

I am often quized as to how I earn a lot more money than they do, but I rarely seem to spend it. Now I am not tight by no means, my answer is always - I only buy something if i need it, or really want it, and not because you have one.

I am not interested in a white leather sofa, designer clothes or membership to a golf course etc. I have a nice house, a sports car and holidays etc. just because I don't spent all my weekends buying crap from superstores on credit. Only to spend the following week telling everyone you know how great my life is because you have the latest american style fridge.

now recently I have noticed that these same people have gone a little quiet and don't have much to talk about. Just the odd comment on how much the bills have gone up, they won't be coming out for dinner this week as mr X will be working overtime and they don't have much spare cash at the moment. They probably won't have a holiday this year etc.

Now I can see these people are finding it hard to make ends meet after the last couple of years of spending like theres no tomorrow....well tomorrow is here and now its repayment time.

this is the point when the things you own, start to own you.

When your in negative equity and in debt, everything else in your life gets the volume turned down....

don't be sucked in by credit.

Have a good day people,

Mad_dan

That is how things are now, a lot of people I know who are basicaly working class, ie they go to work every day and have to pay for everything them selves,(no free rides in life) are seeing themeselves as what you would have called the middle class as they were a few decades ago (when only 10% of the population could lay claim to that lifestyle) and will soon be finding out that 'Mummy ' will have to get a job also, just like the working class always have done. The tricky bit here is that lots of 'Mummy' part time jobs are now being done by the dreaded immigrants. I noticed this recently on a trip to Scotland and back, stayed in 3 B&B'S and a couple of chain hotels, and every one of them not so long ago would have part time 'Mummys' doing the reception, not this time, every single place we stopped had at least 1 EE working there at the reception, not just cleaning the toilets. Theres going to be some sore ar*ses comming up, most people have conveniently forgotten that MEW is not free money, or maybe never realised. I also am pleased to say that I or I should say we dont buy anything just because everyone else has one, car is now 13 years old and will replace that when the one I want is down to 2K in the shops, the TV was replaced only after the other one blew up, have saved up the cash to buy house when the fools cant afford it no more.

[unraveller]

The stuff owning them vs them owning the stuff is even more insidious than HPI. People are fixated on brand names and the possession of mass produced products, telling eveyone where they are going on holiday and how big / expensive their houses are.

I seem to be bumping into more and more people who exist only on a consumer level, feeding themselves with plastic wrapped ready meals and filling their spare time with vacuous celebrity tripe.

That is so true. I have friends who have bought loads of crap because of the cheap credit they were able to get. The problem is that they look at the monthly repayment figure and not the total cost of ownership/repayment. If they can afford it each month then they will have it. My brain actually hurts when I try to think of the rationality going through their heads. Why don't people save anymore? Why is debt seen as a 'normal' thing?

All this consumerism just sucks! I find it extremely depressing when I see people buy crap just to make them feel better about their crappy lives. If they want to fill their lives with drab plastic stuff, they should get off their @rse and earn the money to pay for it. Hell, if they had to pay for this 'crap' with hard cash I bet they wouldn't part with the money. Its all about the psychology of credit cards, its like you are not spending 'real' money because its just numbers on a statement.

I honestly believe that 90% of this country hasn't a clue about money or finance! Bring back Home Economics!

[Wannabe]

I honestly believe that 90% of this country hasn't a clue about money or finance! Bring back Home Economics!

...and the birch...!! :angry:

Oops...got a bit carried away there.

[OnlyMe]

Bring back Home Economics!

Isn't that cooking and cleaning?

[debtfree]

ive a friend who is knackered for the rest of his life unless he dumps Mrs No Brains Just Credit soon. need new carpets, tv, car, holiday, bikes, kitchen, extension, bathroom needs replacing..... on and on, want want want !!

£200K i/o mortgage, 2 kids, 2 cars, and only 1 bread winner earning just over the average wage.... where does it all come from ?

his reply when i tried to warn him on the coming rate rises and debt crisis

"you've got too live for today mate, too old to worry about things like that, enjoy it now"

he is only in his mid 30's and at this rate will be paying all his wages to someone else for the rest of his working career.

it might feel alright when its all new, but when the papers start pumping out headlines 'inflation threat, rates rise' 'banks remove fixed rates' it all changes.

bet he is sh1ting his pants !! and that is a sad way to live.

[bubbleturbo]

Now, one has sold their Z3 as 'it guzzles fuel' and suddenly can't afford to do the degree they wanted to do.

One of BMW's worst cars anyway.

[non-smug]

Many true words said, I'm so glad there are others out there thinking the same way!

-About the debt hungry -not the Z3!!!

Edited January 16, 2007 by non-smug

[Wannabe]

it might feel alright when its all new, but when the papers start pumping out headlines 'inflation threat, rates rise' 'banks remove fixed rates' it all changes.

bet he is sh1ting his pants !! and that is a sad way to live.

Hate to sound disparaging about a friend, but he doesn't seem the type to read 'the papers' - too busy trying to sort out the cabling on his latest life enhancing gadget.

Also, if he ditches the wife, he'll probably lose the house and end up with maintenance payments - up 5hit creek whichever way you look at it...

[Austin Allegro]

Indeed...I have a very dear friend who, up until recently, lived what appeared to be the life of Reilly: new expensive car, skiing holidays, etc etc...in the last few months however he's been cutting back more and more and was talking about selling his car etc. I got started on a rant about people living off MEWing...and he dropped the bombshell that that is what he's been doing - and he's MEWed £250,000! OK so some of that is being ploughed into developing his business, but still, I was in shock!

[hedgefunded]

Yep.

Dumped my house for 360k last May (Bit too soon but I wasn´t far wrong)

Bought a semi in a nice part of town for 200k.

No mortgage, no credit card debt, 3 rate rises and more to come since I sold, never been happier.

[Bug16]

One of my friends owns four sports cars. Yes four! His wife wasn't too happy with all that MEWing going on him so surprise surprise they get a conservatory installed, re-carpet the house, new sofa, a huge plasma TV, a big 5.1 soundsystem for it, 3 foreign holidays a year, etc etc.

I have no idea how much debt he's in but whenever I bring the subject up it's quickly ignored.

Edited to add: This week it was officially announced that I'm being promoted (about another 5k a year). My friend aboves kind words were "It's allright for you, with your promotion and your savings.", as though my savings built up on their own and my promotion didn't involve some rather hard work!

Another friend had about 8k of savings. Two years ago he got fedup of being priced out of the housing market so he spent all of his savings on gadgets, holidays and too many nights down the pub. All of this whilst he took the p1ss out of me for being "tight" with my money whilst he was "living for now!".

He's now 15k in debt.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Bug16

[mad_dan]

topic needs a repost.

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

Fight club = one of the great films of the last 10 years. It even correctly points the finger at the banks.

And that ending. Does anyone else think that the ending would have been vetoed post 9/11? Apparently the Fox studio execs left the preview screening in a state of shock. "How are we going to sell this thing?" kind of sentiment.

Bring back Home Economics!

Isn't that cooking and cleaning?

I used to like Home Economics. Never learned how to cook the books though.

[too soon to buy?]

Hope this doesn't come across as a rant, because it really is not intended to be, but some of you guys do seem a little bit HTT (Holier Than Thou)!!

It looks (I say, "looks") like what you have done has been easy, but if you are a FTB, you generally don't have many luxuries in life (eg plasma TV or flash car) because you are saving for a deposit, which, despite good IR, the house you want to buy is increasing in cost faster than the deposit is! Add London prices into the equation and the dreaded Stamp Duty, I can see why some people say "f** it" and splurge money on nice TVs etc, (silly to do so on Credit, I do agree).

At the end of the day, those with patience will get what they want, those who splurge or rush into things will probably do less well. But don't sit there and laugh or look down your noses at those who are less fortunate - the OP made a brilliant, brilliant post and I 100% agree with him, but don't turn this into a "look how well I have done" forum.

Sorry for being sensitive!! Just wish I could splurge I guess!

[Saving For a Space Ship]

The UK recently has been a 'mew me wonderland'

Nothing but a party on the never never, sung to the tune of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgGYKVxWxjY

Personally, i have been selling my excess possessions like books, vid/dvds, records on amazon / ebay / bootsale as they will be hard to shift for peanuts in a recession. I realised my dvd's just sat there , so sold them & joined http://www.lovefilm.com. Renting/sharing possessions is the way forward IMO.

I like the look of these 'by the hour car share' programs, might try it.

Edited June 9, 2007 by Saving For a Space Ship

[Guest grumpy-old-man]

This is not a rant about house prices, but the state of peoples finances

do you see it? everyday I see it

do you hear it? everyday I hear it

A few months back.... conversations over dinner, down the local or coffee with friends

My house is worth £xxxxxx, so I've borrowed against it's equity........

We have a new car

We have the just bought a 42' plasma TV

2 family holidays abroad

a plastic conservatory

B&Q decking in the garden

Now most of these people I know have families and most of them only have a single income as the wife tends to stay at home at look after the kids. Now most of these people are only on a modest income.

I am often quized as to how I earn a lot more money than they do, but I rarely seem to spend it. Now I am not tight by no means, my answer is always - I only buy something if i need it, or really want it, and not because you have one.

I am not interested in a white leather sofa, designer clothes or membership to a golf course etc. I have a nice house, a sports car and holidays etc. just because I don't spent all my weekends buying crap from superstores on credit. Only to spend the following week telling everyone you know how great my life is because you have the latest american style fridge.

now recently I have noticed that these same people have gone a little quiet and don't have much to talk about. Just the odd comment on how much the bills have gone up, they won't be coming out for dinner this week as mr X will be working overtime and they don't have much spare cash at the moment. They probably won't have a holiday this year etc.

Now I can see these people are finding it hard to make ends meet after the last couple of years of spending like theres no tomorrow....well tomorrow is here and now its repayment time.

this is the point when the things you own, start to own you.

When your in negative equity and in debt, everything else in your life gets the volume turned down....

don't be sucked in by credit.

Have a good day people,

Mad_dan

great post Mad Dan.

some good replies.

After this crash when everyone looks back, they will realise just how much 1.3 trillion really is, & what devastation it has caused (albeit self inflicted by greed). The legacy will last for generations probably ?

[Fool's Gold]

.....a plastic conservatory

B&Q decking in the garden

At least they know quality when they see it.

[Lumsden]

Fight club = one of the great films of the last 10 years. It even correctly points the finger at the banks.

We work jobs we hate to buy sh1t we don't need.

Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

[Guest mattsta1964]

great post Mad Dan.

some good replies.

After this crash when everyone looks back, they will realise just how much 1.3 trillion really is, & what devastation it has caused (albeit self inflicted by greed). The legacy will last for generations probably ?

Yes. An excellent post.

What a way to spend one's life......... waiting for the next credit card bill to drop through the letter box

I have a couple of basic laws I live by........

I never borrow money from banks

I have no credit cards

I live very modestly

If I want something, I save for it

OK! So I'm never going to own a flash car. WTF

People have lost touch with reality. They can't understand that you don't own material things. THEY OWN YOU! There is a responsibility that goes with these things. If you own an expensive car, you have to pay alot of money to run it and maintain it.....all just to maintain your ego.

I still haven't got one of those fancy flat panel TV's and for one very good reason

Why would I buy a big expensive flat panel TV to watch the utter shite they broadcast on TV...... in fact I'm considering getting rid of my TV altogether. I so rarely watch these day