I Find Myself Becoming More Right Wing

[sam]

I really am concerned sometimes about the person i am slowly becoming under the man i worked so hard to get into power, Tony Blair.

I was a homeowner through the whole of the 90's, and like everyone else who paid their own way i worked hard, and i do mean hard.

The fact that i owned quite a nice property and worked hard for everything i owned never stopped me being a bit of a lefty, maybe that is to strong, but i was probably slightly left of centre.

I remember going to the Comedy store and relating to the anti thatcher brigade, i remember the boys from the blackstuff(yosser) and thinking i am with you Guys, i remember standing up for the working man, and all i wanted was a Labour Government so that everyone could have a little of what i had, if not it all.

Well they say be carefull what you wish for, we now have a f*****g(sorry, but when you feel strongly about something) Labour Government, and all they have done is punish those that take care of themselves and reward the weak even more.

I was allways for looking after the weaker members of our society, but not to the point where they are having it better than me, and by a mile.

It has really struck me over the last few weeks, and the way i feel is partially articulated on TV now. I witness fat overweight people swanning around supermarkets in electric cars because they cannot support their own weight, i see 17/18 year GIRLS with a baby or two.

I know of drug addicts who have been given free housing because of their "illness", i know of one particular situation of a certain robbing druggie scumbag who robbed his family blind, got his bird as he calls her pregnant twice, and then left twice, we paid for his house(and in the most desirable part of Herts) and then he was given it, FOR NOTHING.

I have gone through my whole life without poncing off anyone(now early 40's), i paid for my step daughter from 2 years old to she went to uni, i looked after my ill ex, loosing the house in the process, we are now parted.

I dusted myself down and started a decent business in a different part of the Country, i am still paying the debts, but i am nearly straight now.

I keep myself fit, because i need to in order to do my job, i gave up smoking because it effected my health, i could have turned to booze to sort my problems with the ex, but i choose not to, I CHOOSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY OWN LIFE.

Today i begrudge paying tax, put it this way, i will tax avoid to the very best of my ability. Why should i be paying for the so called weak when i am living in crappy rental.

I find myself looking at food trays in cafes, when i see cream cakes, fizzy drinks, hash browns, and then see someone obese, i cannot help myself, i just feel this anger, people who smoke and who look ill, drinkers(but to be fair some of those are left to rot).

One of my customers a few weeks back opened up to me, he was 62 but grafted like a 20 year old should, he was a strong as an ox, he was a poor kid made good and now had a decent plot of land in the Country, really tastefull.

He like a lot of the older generaration do was p*****d off with what was happening in todays society, and i found myself agreeing with him.

He really was the type of bloke who thought more on the lines of survival of the strongest, and i as much as i hate myself for saying it, i think more that way myself now. I do not want to look after the unhealthy, pregnant, lazy, at the expence of my own life.

Sam

[JohnG]

Sam, the only point I would argue with you about is your frequent use of the word "weak".

If, instead you used "lazy", "idle", "feckless", "irresponsible" etc. etc. you would be bang on the mark.

I'm 46, I've just finished a string of 60+ hour working weeks. If it was my choice I'd be happy to let the type of people to which you refer starve to death or starve back into work.

[Rain'ard]

Yes I understand your feelings unfortunately, it is mainly due to the system of income support which has been with us for very long time. Once you qualify for this there are a lot of benefits that are excluded for hard working people who happen to fall on hard times. I also wonder what would happen if these people who milk the system were left to rot.

[Realistbear]

Sentiments shared by many. The country is angry. Thos who bought into the miracle economy and borrowed like there was no tomorrow have discovered there is a tomorrow and its not what they thought. Instead of prosperity there is debt, the illusion of wealth and too many people taking a joyride without a care for the consequences because its easy to go bankrupt and shirk all responsibility.

Then there are the smug Champagne Socialists with thousands of tax abusers getting paid over 100k working for local authorities that are robbing people blind with council taxes. They play croquet courtesy of the tax payers, drive two jags and live a life of immorality and infidelity as a reflection of their true nature as robber barons.

We have a big brother mentality with speed cameras and the threat of even more surveilance to come. We have a fat controller who makes no mention of the mess he has made of housing regarding it as an achievement rather than an economic crime. We have liars in office who expect the people to believe they thought only 60,000 immigrants would come in to take jobs whereas the figures are in the millions with more in the pipeline to suppress wages and keep the source of illusory wealth going.

NuLabour are typical of the breed of socialist who, after being given a ride in a Rolls, convert to greedmongers faster than shinola off a wet shovel. Let us hope their days are numbered.

Edited September 24, 2006 by Realistbear

[last ninja]

I feel that the whole left wing/right wing divide is a red herring. One party or other may favour those on benefits versus workers more or less than the other but really it's just about who gets the scraps while the real wealth every time just goes to make the rich richer - the one constant is the growing divide between rich and poor. I think our rulers just love it to see one segment of society blame another because it takes attention away from those who are really fleecing you.

[Ali]

I really am concerned sometimes about the person i am slowly becoming under the man i worked so hard to get into power, Tony Blair.

I was a homeowner through the whole of the 90's, and like everyone else who paid their own way i worked hard, and i do mean hard.

The fact that i owned quite a nice property and worked hard for everything i owned never stopped me being a bit of a lefty, maybe that is to strong, but i was probably slightly left of centre.

I remember going to the Comedy store and relating to the anti thatcher brigade, i remember the boys from the blackstuff(yosser) and thinking i am with you Guys, i remember standing up for the working man, and all i wanted was a Labour Government so that everyone could have a little of what i had, if not it all.

Well they say be carefull what you wish for, we now have a f*****g(sorry, but when you feel strongly about something) Labour Government, and all they have done is punish those that take care of themselves and reward the weak even more.

I was allways for looking after the weaker members of our society, but not to the point where they are having it better than me, and by a mile.

It has really struck me over the last few weeks, and the way i feel is partially articulated on TV now. I witness fat overweight people swanning around supermarkets in electric cars because they cannot support their own weight, i see 17/18 year GIRLS with a baby or two.

I know of drug addicts who have been given free housing because of their "illness", i know of one particular situation of a certain robbing druggie scumbag who robbed his family blind, got his bird as he calls her pregnant twice, and then left twice, we paid for his house(and in the most desirable part of Herts) and then he was given it, FOR NOTHING.

I have gone through my whole life without poncing off anyone(now early 40's), i paid for my step daughter from 2 years old to she went to uni, i looked after my ill ex, loosing the house in the process, we are now parted.

I dusted myself down and started a decent business in a different part of the Country, i am still paying the debts, but i am nearly straight now.

I keep myself fit, because i need to in order to do my job, i gave up smoking because it effected my health, i could have turned to booze to sort my problems with the ex, but i choose not to, I CHOOSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY OWN LIFE.

Today i begrudge paying tax, put it this way, i will tax avoid to the very best of my ability. Why should i be paying for the so called weak when i am living in crappy rental.

I find myself looking at food trays in cafes, when i see cream cakes, fizzy drinks, hash browns, and then see someone obese, i cannot help myself, i just feel this anger, people who smoke and who look ill, drinkers(but to be fair some of those are left to rot).

One of my customers a few weeks back opened up to me, he was 62 but grafted like a 20 year old should, he was a strong as an ox, he was a poor kid made good and now had a decent plot of land in the Country, really tastefull.

He like a lot of the older generaration do was p*****d off with what was happening in todays society, and i found myself agreeing with him.

He really was the type of bloke who thought more on the lines of survival of the strongest, and i as much as i hate myself for saying it, i think more that way myself now. I do not want to look after the unhealthy, pregnant, lazy, at the expence of my own life.

Sam

I am 36 sam and feel the same way the way things are if you sit on your **** and do nothing you get looked after and if you have done okay for yourself you get taxed to death, however if you are super rich you are left alone the situation stinks and I have had enough!!!!

[JohnG]

Sentiments shared by many. The country is angry. Thos who bought into the miracle econopmny and borrowed like there was not tomoor have discovered there is a tomorrow and its not what they thought. Instead of prosperity there is debt, the illusion of wealth and too many people taking a joyride without a care for the consequences because its easy to go bankrupt and shirk all responsibility.

Then there are the smug Champagne Socialists with thousands of tax abusers getting paid over 100k working for local authorities that are robbing people blind with council taxes. They play croquet courtesy of the tax payers, drive two jags and live a life of immorality and infidelity as a reflection of their true nature as robber barons.

We have a big brother mentality with speed cameras and the threat of even more surveilance to come. We have a fat controller who makes no mention of the mess he has made of housing regarding it as an achievement rather than an economic crime. We have liars in office who expect the people to believe they thought only 60,000 immigrants would come in to take jobs whereas the figures are in the millions with more in the pipeline to suppress wages and keep the source of illusory wealth going.

NuLabour are typical of the breed of socialist who, after being given a ride in a Rolls, convert to greedmongers faster than shinola off a wet shovel. Let us hope their days are numbered.

Hell, RB, I have just found myself agreeing with you!

[Guest Yeahbutnocrash]

Yes perhaps Labour are suited to opposition - I also was right behind them in those days!

[BoredTrainBuilder]

In the US, where a presumption to lifetime benefits (welfare) for the 'weak' was replaced in the 1990s by a system whereby after five years you are on your own, poverty has fallen as the feckless have been forced into work benefiting them, their children and above all the people hitherto subsidising them.

Sentiments shared by many. The country is angry. Thos who bought into the miracle econopmny and borrowed like there was not tomoor have discovered there is a tomorrow and its not what they thought. Instead of prosperity there is debt, the illusion of wealth and too many people taking a joyride without a care for the consequences because its easy to go bankrupt and shirk all responsibility.

Then there are the smug Champagne Socialists with thousands of tax abusers getting paid over 100k working for local authorities that are robbing people blind with council taxes. They play croquet courtesy of the tax payers, drive two jags and live a life of immorality and infidelity as a reflection of their true nature as robber barons.

We have a big brother mentality with speed cameras and the threat of even more surveilance to come. We have a fat controller who makes no mention of the mess he has made of housing regarding it as an achievement rather than an economic crime. We have liars in office who expect the people to believe they thought only 60,000 immigrants would come in to take jobs whereas the figures are in the millions with more in the pipeline to suppress wages and keep the source of illusory wealth going.

NuLabour are typical of the breed of socialist who, after being given a ride in a Rolls, convert to greedmongers faster than shinola off a wet shovel. Let us hope their days are numbered.

Speed cameras save many lives including, potentially, my children.

People's sexual lives, provided all is consensual, are nobody's business but those of the participants.

You religious people actually want a licence to meddle (in my life and that of my family and everyone else) in the same way that socialists do - but in all the wrong ways.

You are islamist in principle although not, I accept, in practice.

Edited September 23, 2006 by BoredTrainBuilder

[Fudge]

I thought New Labour was right wing now.

I also do not like to see or agree with people who abuse the system - the welfare system was meant

to be a safety net that was there if you needed it, not an alternative lifestyle choice.

But it was thought up within a ideology of Socialism which believed in co-operation, solidarity and mutual aid.

In society today these concepts are laughed at, within the current ideology we are forced to compete, act out of self interest and motivated by profit, so in this context I am not suprised some people then choose to live off the social,

abuse their bodies and expect the NHS to put it right at others cost, apply for a council house - buy it then lose it

after running up to much debt, only then to be given another.

It is the encouraged selfishness taken to its logical extent, if you asked these people where do you think the money

comes from that pays for all this, I genuinely think they wouldnt know or understand.

I also think it is taken out of all proportion, OK there are some people swinging the lead but that is not the main problem.

The main problem is that people are working and not being paid the full value of their work in the first place, the surplus value is going into big business profits, the amounts of which is staggering. What they are earning they are being fleeced of at the first opportunity.

The PR and Media keep pointing at the scroungers as the problem to take the attention away from the real source of the problem which is big business, corporations, banks etc.

[iamnumerate]

I really am concerned sometimes about the person i am slowly becoming under the man i worked so hard to get into power, Tony Blair.

I was a homeowner through the whole of the 90's, and like everyone else who paid their own way i worked hard, and i do mean hard.

The fact that i owned quite a nice property and worked hard for everything i owned never stopped me being a bit of a lefty, maybe that is to strong, but i was probably slightly left of centre.

I remember going to the Comedy store and relating to the anti thatcher brigade, i remember the boys from the blackstuff(yosser) and thinking i am with you Guys, i remember standing up for the working man, and all i wanted was a Labour Government so that everyone could have a little of what i had, if not it all.

Well they say be carefull what you wish for, we now have a f*****g(sorry, but when you feel strongly about something) Labour Government, and all they have done is punish those that take care of themselves and reward the weak even more.

I was allways for looking after the weaker members of our society, but not to the point where they are having it better than me, and by a mile.

It has really struck me over the last few weeks, and the way i feel is partially articulated on TV now. I witness fat overweight people swanning around supermarkets in electric cars because they cannot support their own weight, i see 17/18 year GIRLS with a baby or two.

I know of drug addicts who have been given free housing because of their "illness", i know of one particular situation of a certain robbing druggie scumbag who robbed his family blind, got his bird as he calls her pregnant twice, and then left twice, we paid for his house(and in the most desirable part of Herts) and then he was given it, FOR NOTHING.

I have gone through my whole life without poncing off anyone(now early 40's), i paid for my step daughter from 2 years old to she went to uni, i looked after my ill ex, loosing the house in the process, we are now parted.

I dusted myself down and started a decent business in a different part of the Country, i am still paying the debts, but i am nearly straight now.

I keep myself fit, because i need to in order to do my job, i gave up smoking because it effected my health, i could have turned to booze to sort my problems with the ex, but i choose not to, I CHOOSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY OWN LIFE.

Today i begrudge paying tax, put it this way, i will tax avoid to the very best of my ability. Why should i be paying for the so called weak when i am living in crappy rental.

I find myself looking at food trays in cafes, when i see cream cakes, fizzy drinks, hash browns, and then see someone obese, i cannot help myself, i just feel this anger, people who smoke and who look ill, drinkers(but to be fair some of those are left to rot).

One of my customers a few weeks back opened up to me, he was 62 but grafted like a 20 year old should, he was a strong as an ox, he was a poor kid made good and now had a decent plot of land in the Country, really tastefull.

He like a lot of the older generaration do was p*****d off with what was happening in todays society, and i found myself agreeing with him.

He really was the type of bloke who thought more on the lines of survival of the strongest, and i as much as i hate myself for saying it, i think more that way myself now. I do not want to look after the unhealthy, pregnant, lazy, at the expence of my own life.

Sam

I feel almost the same apart from the fact that I used to be a Lib Dem and now I am UKIP.

I know someone from Colombia he is going back there on holiday soon - despite the fact that he gets free housing because he was in "danger" there.

Also I used to pay taxes not just to drug addicts but druggies who polluted my home with their smoke.

The only good thing is that we will soon all be "right" wing (why is it right wing to want people who work to be well off ? I thought that was left wing).

[trompe le monde]

snip...

Then there are the smug Champagne Socialists with thousands of tax abusers getting paid over 100k working for local authorities that are robbing people blind with council taxes. They play croquet courtesy of the tax payers, drive two jags and live a life of immorality and infidelity as a reflection of their true nature as robber barons.

snip....

NuLabour are typical of the breed of socialist who, after being given a ride in a Rolls, convert to greedmongers faster than shinola off a wet shovel. Let us hope their days are numbered.

There was the same hearty cheering as before, and the mugs were emptied to the dregs. But as the animals outside gazed at the scene, it seemed to them that some strange thing was happening. What was it that had altered in the faces of the pigs? Clover’s old dim eyes flitted from one face to another. Some of them had five chins, some had four, some had three. But what was it that seemed to be melting and changing? Then, the applause having come to an end, the company took up their cards and continued the game that had been interrupted, and the animals crept silently away.

But they had not gone twenty yards when they stopped short. An uproar of voices was coming from the farmhouse. They rushed back and looked through the window again. Yes, a violent quarrel was in progress. There were shoutings, bangings on the table, sharp suspicious glances, furious denials. The source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr. Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously.

Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/books/animalfarm.htm

TLM

[crash co-ordinator]

Totally agree with you Sam. I often wish Adolf Hitler had won the war and that is sayin' something! All those WWII soldiers who gave their lives for a "Chav" society. What a waste.

[conifer]

Governments react to situations. Being left or right wing is a luxury of opposition. I find I've always been right-wing about some matters, like law and order, but left-wing on others - like I'm against the monarchy. I don't think I've changed my place on the left-right scale very much - I'm 51 now. There was a time, perhaps, when a leftist, public sector orientated economy could have been made to work well, but it was the left itself, in the form of the unions, that holed our nationalised industries below the waterline.

[iLegallyBlonde]

Crickey strong words and feeings, the problem is we have a bought electorate and the more debt people are in the less likely they will vote out the hand that feeds them their tax credits, young families, pensioners alike and the middle england brigade think they are doing well because their house value has doubled in 5 years.

Don't know the answer i only wish i did.

[the end is a bit nigher]

nu labour and to an even greater extent, the lib dems, practise the politics of envy - 'look, they have more than us, let's getthem down to our level' - there is no aspiration of working hard to better ones-self, just taxing or penalising everyone else even slightly better off - the lib dems latest policy, to limit tax rebates on pension payments to only the lower rate of tax is yet another way of making everyone equal at the lowest level - no doubt it will encourage some of those hit to think even more that pensions are a waste of time and invest in something else(!!!)

[dnd]

Don't people become more right wing naturally as they get older anyway?

[the end is a bit nigher]

Don't people become more right wing naturally as they get older anyway?

traditionally, yes

i wonder if it's because as you grow older, you start to sow the fruits of your labour andthen you realise that every bugger wants a piece of it - you then naturally drift to the politics which lets you keep the most, usually conservative

[bugged bunny]

traditionally, yes

i wonder if it's because as you grow older, you start to sow the fruits of your labour andthen you realise that every bugger wants a piece of it - you then naturally drift to the politics which lets you keep the most, usually conservative

I think so - plus the older you get, the more cynical you become, and the more dependents you're likely to have and want to protect.

I'm generally left-wing or Green, but pretty much all politicians drive me mad with their egos.

I would never vote Nu-Labour.

[Guest mattsta1964]

I really am concerned sometimes about the person i am slowly becoming under the man i worked so hard to get into power, Tony Blair.

I was a homeowner through the whole of the 90's, and like everyone else who paid their own way i worked hard, and i do mean hard.

The fact that i owned quite a nice property and worked hard for everything i owned never stopped me being a bit of a lefty, maybe that is to strong, but i was probably slightly left of centre.

I remember going to the Comedy store and relating to the anti thatcher brigade, i remember the boys from the blackstuff(yosser) and thinking i am with you Guys, i remember standing up for the working man, and all i wanted was a Labour Government so that everyone could have a little of what i had, if not it all.

Well they say be carefull what you wish for, we now have a f*****g(sorry, but when you feel strongly about something) Labour Government, and all they have done is punish those that take care of themselves and reward the weak even more.

I was allways for looking after the weaker members of our society, but not to the point where they are having it better than me, and by a mile.

It has really struck me over the last few weeks, and the way i feel is partially articulated on TV now. I witness fat overweight people swanning around supermarkets in electric cars because they cannot support their own weight, i see 17/18 year GIRLS with a baby or two.

I know of drug addicts who have been given free housing because of their "illness", i know of one particular situation of a certain robbing druggie scumbag who robbed his family blind, got his bird as he calls her pregnant twice, and then left twice, we paid for his house(and in the most desirable part of Herts) and then he was given it, FOR NOTHING.

I have gone through my whole life without poncing off anyone(now early 40's), i paid for my step daughter from 2 years old to she went to uni, i looked after my ill ex, loosing the house in the process, we are now parted.

I dusted myself down and started a decent business in a different part of the Country, i am still paying the debts, but i am nearly straight now.

I keep myself fit, because i need to in order to do my job, i gave up smoking because it effected my health, i could have turned to booze to sort my problems with the ex, but i choose not to, I CHOOSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY OWN LIFE.

Today i begrudge paying tax, put it this way, i will tax avoid to the very best of my ability. Why should i be paying for the so called weak when i am living in crappy rental.

I find myself looking at food trays in cafes, when i see cream cakes, fizzy drinks, hash browns, and then see someone obese, i cannot help myself, i just feel this anger, people who smoke and who look ill, drinkers(but to be fair some of those are left to rot).

One of my customers a few weeks back opened up to me, he was 62 but grafted like a 20 year old should, he was a strong as an ox, he was a poor kid made good and now had a decent plot of land in the Country, really tastefull.

He like a lot of the older generaration do was p*****d off with what was happening in todays society, and i found myself agreeing with him.

He really was the type of bloke who thought more on the lines of survival of the strongest, and i as much as i hate myself for saying it, i think more that way myself now. I do not want to look after the unhealthy, pregnant, lazy, at the expence of my own life.

Sam

You're not alone in thinking like this. I used to be a 'right on' lefty but as I've struggled through life and tried to make ends meet, I've realised that you have to depend on your own enterprise and hard work to get anywhere and the state conspires to prevent you from succeeding at every possible opportunity. So now, after struggling really hard for a very long time, I have no sympathy anymore for the passengers and spongers who always blame other people and society for their own shortcomings. People have got to learn to take more responsibility for their lives and not expect to be bailed out by those of us who are really trying hard to make something of our lives. So I would dismantle the welfare state completely. The spongers and bludgers would soon get their fingers out of their a*seholes if we stopped the gravy train.

[Ade]

Give em the birth...INFACT give everyone in the whole world the birch!

[Guest mattsta1964]

nu labour and to an even greater extent, the lib dems, practise the politics of envy - 'look, they have more than us, let's getthem down to our level' - there is no aspiration of working hard to better ones-self, just taxing or penalising everyone else even slightly better off - the lib dems latest policy, to limit tax rebates on pension payments to only the lower rate of tax is yet another way of making everyone equal at the lowest level - no doubt it will encourage some of those hit to think even more that pensions are a waste of time and invest in something else(!!!)

Mate! It's ALWAYS been the same in this country. The state despises the whole idea that ordinary working people might prosper and actaully get a dividend for their hard work and enterprise. The UK (more than any other western economy)has always been the same irrespective of which political party has been in power. The best way to keep people subservient is to con them into thinking that their slavery is making them wealthier. The property market has been an incredibly successful way of doing this. Joe Bloggs' property doubles or even triples in value in 10 years. He goes to a dinner party and braggs about how well he has done whilst sipping his chardonnay and, no doubt, he is surrounded by a whole roomful of numpties doing exactly the same thing. Then, somewhere further along the economic cycle, Joe has the rug pulled from under his feet and his supposed wealth is redistributed back to the people who created the sting. Clever innit!

[last ninja]

Isn't it also true that at any workplace at least 50% of people are useless and being carried by the rest? Even if you're nominally employed it doesn't mean you are benefitting society. All those regional marketing directors for Burger King and people who design web sites for bubble gum companies and all kinds of chavs in suits.

But we live in a capitalist society and these jobs serve capital, it's not supposed to be something anybody likes - if a company makes profit it is justified by our dominant ideology. The purpose of our government is to serve capital. We don't live in a socialist country - socialism is about rewarding workers for their work and who knows if it works or not, it's irrelevant because we're a capitalist country. Therefore our government primarily serves capital and it is their duty to make sure that society as a whole contributes to the needs of business.

You might think it's unproductive to have a high amount of unemployment, but unemployed people mean those in work can be paid lower wages. This benefits business and increases overall productivity. It may be counter-intuitive to the individual observer, but capitalism is an idea and as such it transcends the individual. Have benefit scroungers damaged the FTSE? The FTSE looks fine, so really any complaint is unjustified.

It reminds me of a quote:

If patterns of ones and zeroes were "like" patterns of human lives and deaths, if everything about an individual could be represented in a computer record by a long strings of ones and zeroes, then what kind of creature could be represented by a long string of lives and deaths? It would have to be up one level, at least -- an angel, a minor god, something in a UFO. It would take eight human lives and deaths just to form one character in this being's name...

[Diddad]

Personally, I refer to New Labour as New Tory. There is no difference between the two anymore as far as I am concerned.

Regarding the Welfare State, I think the problem now is as each generation since it's inception is born they have less and less understanding of what is really is and how it should really work. Ideally the majority of people contribute to the Welfare State in the expectation that they will be able to call on it for help when they need it. However, generations later we have huge numbers of people who have zero intention of contributing and who will do their utmost to squeeze as much out of it as they can. Many have been born into this process and presumably know no other way of existing - hence 15, 16, 17 year olds getting pregnant in anticipation of being given a home.

It will be interesting to see if any form of HPC takes place because then I think you will see many people shaken out of the 'rampant consumerism daydream' that is their life and huge numbers of the electorate will start asking some very pointed questions of our leaders.

I don't understand how big business get away with ruining this country/planet. At the end of the day you have more and more money going into fewer and fewer pockets each year and nothing is ever said about it. The obscene pay awards that the CEOs and directors of firms get nowadays is utterly shocking. They receive huge salaries, bonuses etc and then they're getting millions paid into their pension funds - how much money do they actually need? And every penny they get means less for all the other workers in that organisation. It's amazing that it's allowed to happen but as I say, maybe once this HPI daydream hits the skids the heat may get turned up a notch or two.

[Pindar]

Socialism is about tax and spend. The government borrows money from the central bank. We pay the interest through taxation. Socialism has never been about rewarding the workers. It has always been about preserving a tolerable state of affairs for the employer and employees and ensuring that the workers are never really able to get "above their station" or prosper on their own. This is why we see the constant stream of regulations and anti-free enterprise regulations coming out of this socialist NuLabor and the EU. It's designed to cripple the independent and entrepreneurial spirit in favour of corporate socialism and collectives for this and collectives for that. The trend will lead us down the road towards a system which more closely resembles communist russia than a so called "free market" economy. What's the difference between the total means of production and distribution being in the hands of a few mega-corporations and it being in the hands of a few unelected party officials? Absolutely zilch.

I find myself sympathising more and more with thatcher and her policies which encouraged free enterprise and individual responsibility. I disagreed with many of her policies but I valued the way she let small businesses prosper, so unlike this bunch of thieves and crooks we currently have in power who seem hell bent on punishing small businesses by regulating them out of existence and taxing them to death. What NuLabor is doing to this country is turning it into a soviet. We can take our place in the European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Bring back Norman Tebbitt, bring back Norman Lamont, bring back Nigel Lawson - all is forgiven.

Thatcher was right all those years ago in her assertion that the EU would become a "socialist superstate"