greengreen Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 While a lot of bulletin board software is either free of quite cheap. What you will find is that they consume a lot of bandwidth and server resources. Some hosting companies do not allow bulletin boards to be used. They may even have to pay for a dedicated server - at considerable expense. The owners of the website will probably be paying for additional bandwidth and the site probably takes some time to manage and maintain. Whats wrong with them trying to raise revenue by having banners on them? Good on them, they may have set up this as a pet project and now with the additional traffic they can convert this to revenue. ( I dont know the websites history or ownership) Some websites generate significant revenue from banners: http://www.sitepronews.com/archives/2006/mar/27.html (HPC is not an ugly website but the link above can give you some idea of revenues!) You are not being charged to use this website and you dont have to click on the banners. Its a free website that so many of us get a lot of use out of. Personally I dont really care about the banners, it may not look as nice but, its a good site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Europa Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 If prices dropped by 20%, instead of my budget of £125k being spent on this: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-511...pa_n=4&tr_t=buy I would be able to buy this: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-655...pa_n=1&tr_t=buy or this: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-834...pa_n=1&tr_t=buy for the same money. This would matter A LOT to me!!! Don't get your hopes up - a property crash will not happen in isolation and there are a lot of other factors to consider. If you have 125K cash and a recession proof job, then yes you will be in a good position. But will you be able to get a 125K mortgage when the economy is heading over the precipice and interest rates are rising? A 20 per cent fall will, in all probability, matter a lot to you; just not in the way you expect. A lot of people here seem to expect some sort of post-crash Utopia; I really don't think it will pan out like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 But will you be able to get a 125K mortgage when the economy is heading over the precipice and interest rates are rising? Yes - and £125k is my worst case scenario. It's not cash - it would be mostly borrowed - but with my current salary & savings I could probably just about stretch to a £180k house if I really wanted to. However I wouldn't want to put my finances in jeapordy, considering the potential economic outlook. I'd rather go for something more modest that I could easily afford, and not be mortgaged to the hilt. I'm not expecting a Utopia, but I do think I'm planning it right to take advantage of things when the sh1t hits the fan for a lot of other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winners and Losers Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 A lot of people here seem to expect some sort of post-crash Utopia; I really don't think it will pan out like that. What?! No party! I'll put away my party dress and my I Told You So banner then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Europa Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 What?! No party! I'll put away my party dress and my I Told You So banner then. Let's not be too hasty - Nothing wrong with a period of gloating, following by a street parade with "Your home is worthless" banners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 What?! No party! I'll put away my party dress and my I Told You So banner then. Party? Can we wear pretty?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winners and Losers Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Party? Can we wear pretty?! I never wear anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pioneer31 Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 I do sympathise, BB, but maybe you should think of ways of increasing your earning potential then? We always complain about the costs, but why not think creatively about how to raise our funds? I don't know what you do obviously, but you might want to ask yourself: "How could I double my salary?" Serious question. Here's an idea. The govt can increase taxes to the point where LOTS of people are in a financial mess and cannot cope. Then when the public complain, they can turn round and say to the public 'It's ok, just double your salary, then you'll be alright' Thats also a bit rude, if I may say so. Fairyland? No. Just being realistic. Like most people (including me when I was younger) you seem crippled by the notion that you are not in control of your own earning power; that you work for someone else and you are just some wage slave with no say in the course of your own life. Wrong. I doubt if doctors or dentists need to double their salary to buy property. Nurses could increase their earnings by working outside the NHS and starting a small business on the side. The teachers I know (including my own wife) actually earn a pretty decent salary these days, though when I see the stress caused by their own job, my advice would be to get out of the profession altogether and to claim back their own life. Gosh, it's alls so easy, now you put it that way. Maybe I'll start up some businesses and become a millionaire like Noel Edmonds. Thanks BF! How do teachers double their salary? How do nurses double their salary? How do doctors double their salary? How do dentists double their salary? Simple! teach twice as long nurse twice as long write twice as many precriptions drill twice as many teeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnieDarker Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) In 85 when I bought my first flat, I was distraught that it was £42K when a year earlier it had been only £30K. That's it, I thought, I've missed out. I was earning £9K at the time and my partner even less, so it was still a huge amount of money to us at the time, but in retrospect it was the best purchase we ever made. So let's get this straight. You were able to buy a property for 4.5 times your salary. My situation: having to buy for 4 times our JOINT salary after putting down a 28% deposit. "The music that you (bulls) constantly play...it says nothing to me about my life". Edited May 25, 2006 by DonnieDarker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassfarthing Posted May 25, 2006 Author Share Posted May 25, 2006 But the point you're missing is that it isn't good for the stability of society for people to have to pay so much for a home. Debt is too high. House prices are too high. The 'I'm alright Jack' attitude that you and some others here seem to advocate (just work harder and earn more etc) might work for the minority but not for the good of all. I am in charge of my earning power and in fact have doubled my income since leaving the public sector. But do I want to live in a society where those who look after me in hospital, or who teach my children, cannot afford a home to live in? Of course I don't. I can't stand the short-sighted selfish attitudes of some who only look at this situation from their own perspective. It stinks. And frankly, if you ever need hospital treatment I hope to God that you find a nurse who can see through your arrogant attitude and look after you. Increasing resources isn't the answer, even though it sure makes life more comfortable. The answer is for prices to fall... just like they doing. Well most of us would like those things, but I'm trying to deal with the reality. Hand-wringing isn't the answer. Sorry if you find my attitude "arrogant". Didn't mean to come across like that. I'm just trying to be matter-of-fact about how I see the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnieDarker Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Well most of us would like those things, but I'm trying to deal with the reality. Hand-wringing isn't the answer. Sorry if you find my attitude "arrogant". Didn't mean to come across like that. I'm just trying to be matter-of-fact about how I see the situation. I dont think you're putting any energy into being arogant but you are symptomatic of a generation who wave off today's struggle with the generalisation that "you had it as hard in your day". My parents are of the same mindset. Unless you are a FTB or the parent of one I really dont think you realise how insane the situation is...and why should you? If I'd been able to buy when it was cheap why would I care or want to read about how FTBs are so priced out that the average age of one these days is 35 and that the proportion making up the market is as low as it has been for 20+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassfarthing Posted May 25, 2006 Author Share Posted May 25, 2006 I think there are far more people on here who are in control of their finances than the majority of the population. Our personal situation is that we DID double our income last year, and we're always on the look out to increase it further. However - you're not nessecarily guaranteed that income, a business may do well one year and not the next, in a mainstream job you may be made redundant. We have no debt, and are saving a lot of money. It makes us in a better position, but in our eyes, it isn't safe for us to buy a house at the moment, and become mortgage slaves. We are doing exaclty what you are suggesting, we have got off our backsides, (Have one full time/part time income/sideline business), but now at this moment in time - it's not the answer, it isn't that simple - the risk for owning your own shelter is just too high. It simply makes more financial sense to rent. Period. People on here - highly strung and emotional little bears that we are have assessed the risks, other people see something that's never going to end just from hearing that "houses prices are on the rise". I think people on here are very grounded, and have looked at the pros and cons far more than your average Joe Bloggs, and i beleive they know what they are talking about, and that they have looked at the picture as a whole. You may think that we should just buy because prices overall don't go down, in the smaller picture it makes a bigger difference when you buy. Fair enough, I can't argue with most of that. Not everyone on here is as 'grounded' as you though. There seem to be a fair few around who would like to see a crash for no better reason than the pleasure of watching some people suffer. I know that but if it is that easy to just double your salary I want to know about it. Who said it was easy? Not me. "Why HPC Enthusiast puzzle me" because you are probably an estate agent. You probably get puzzled by the lunch menu at McDonalds. No, I'm not an EA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassfarthing Posted May 25, 2006 Author Share Posted May 25, 2006 I dont think you're putting any energy into being arogant but you are symptomatic of a generation who wave off today's struggle with the generalisation that "you had it as hard in your day". My parents are of the same mindset. Unless you are a FTB or the parent of one I really dont think you realise how insane the situation is...and why should you? If I'd been able to buy when it was cheap why would I care or want to read about how FTBs are so priced out that the average age of one these days is 35 and that the proportion making up the market is as low as it has been for 20+ years. Sorry if I gave that impression. I'm very aware that things are even harder now. I mentioned my own situation simply to illustrate that we were also convinced that we had missed the boat. The flat we bought was 40% more expensive than it had been a year earlier, and we very nearly didn't go ahead because of what we saw as the insanity of the market. Yes, it's even worse now, to be sure and I'm very sympathetic to anyone trying to get on the ladder, honestly. To come back to my original point, the whole premise of this site seems to be that if enough people say "Don't buy, there's about to be a huge crash", then it will somehow magically happen, and personally I don't think it will. The political fallout would be so immense that the government will stop at nothing to avoid it. That said, we are definitely seeing a slow-down which may even lead to a period of price stagnation or even small falls. I just don't think there will be a crash for the simple reasons mentioned earlier, that people won't sell for less than they paid. The best hope the pro-crash people have is that interest rates will spiral out of control, leading to some sort of consumer financial meltdown where people won't be able to pay their credit card bills and mortgages, and there'll be mass bankruptcy everywhere and tons of cheap property available exclusively for users of this site. I just don't think it will happen , but only time will tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepwatching Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) To come back to my original point, the whole premise of this site seems to be that if enough people say "Don't buy, there's about to be a huge crash I dont think it does..... Maybe if you look for all the doom and gloom ? But not if you are looking for worthwhile information......... and your original question....... Why HPC enthusiasts puzzle me ? It puzzles me why you buy a flat 40% over the price it was a year previously, then come on here and state how clever you are..... Sounds like you might feel a tad uncomfortable when the bottom finally falls out of the market..... MUPPET...... Edited May 25, 2006 by keepwatching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Fair enough, I can't argue with most of that. Not everyone on here is as 'grounded' as you though. There seem to be a fair few around who would like to see a crash for no better reason than the pleasure of watching some people suffer. Who said it was easy? Not me. No, I'm not an EA. But you get puzzled with the menu at McDonalds. Well you didnt deny it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupidstunt Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Sorry if I gave that impression. I'm very aware that things are even harder now. I mentioned my own situation simply to illustrate that we were also convinced that we had missed the boat. The flat we bought was 40% more expensive than it had been a year earlier, and we very nearly didn't go ahead because of what we saw as the insanity of the market. Yes, it's even worse now, to be sure and I'm very sympathetic to anyone trying to get on the ladder, honestly. To come back to my original point, the whole premise of this site seems to be that if enough people say "Don't buy, there's about to be a huge crash", then it will somehow magically happen, and personally I don't think it will. The political fallout would be so immense that the government will stop at nothing to avoid it. That said, we are definitely seeing a slow-down which may even lead to a period of price stagnation or even small falls. I just don't think there will be a crash for the simple reasons mentioned earlier, that people won't sell for less than they paid. The best hope the pro-crash people have is that interest rates will spiral out of control, leading to some sort of consumer financial meltdown where people won't be able to pay their credit card bills and mortgages, and there'll be mass bankruptcy everywhere and tons of cheap property available exclusively for users of this site. I just don't think it will happen , but only time will tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassfarthing Posted May 25, 2006 Author Share Posted May 25, 2006 and your original question....... Why HPC enthusiasts puzzle me ? It puzzles me why you buy a flat 40% over the price it was a year previously, then come on here and state how clever you are..... We bought the flat because we wanted somewhere to live, and there wasn't a huge difference between the mortgage payments and renting (in London). I didn't say anything about "how clever I am", and it's not how I feel. I don't even think I've been that lucky either if you want the truth. Here are the bare facts if you're interested: We sold the flat in 88 and I left the property market. I made a profit but blew it on a failed business venture. I moved to Yorkshire where I eventually bought a 1-bed flat for £30K in 93. The value remained pretty much the same for the best part of 10 years. Only in the last couple of years has it gone up (roughly doubled) but it was actually a pretty crap purchase when I look at how other types of property have fared round there. Got married, moved to Manchester where my wife lived in her own house. We sold up in 2002 and moved south. We thought we'd done well at the time as we sold for £90K having bought for £45K, but in fact the house has doubled in value again in the last 4 years, so you could say we lost out. Meantime we bought a house in Bucks for £220K and have a biggish mortgage (about £160K originally, now about £120K), though only 9 years left thankfully. The house has probably hardly appreciated in value at all during that period, but for reasons mentioned earlier, that doesn't bother me. We bought the place because we wanted to live here, that's all. I still own the flat in Yorkshire and plan to sell it soon to pay off a big chunk of this mortgage. We're luckier than most, but I could have done a lot better financially if I'd been truly "clever". Sounds like you might feel a tad uncomfortable when the bottom finally falls out of the market..... MUPPET...... No need to abuse each other, is there? Not quite sure what you meant by the above. Firstly, for reasons stated ad nauseam, I don't think the crash is inevitable, but yes, of course I'll feel uncomfortable, just like most other people, if it does happen. We're lucky to have no debts apart from the mortgage however, so I suspect we'll be better insulated than many. My life will continue in pretty much the same way, and eventually the market will recover again as it always does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 I dont think it does..... Maybe if you look for all the doom and gloom ? But not if you are looking for worthwhile information......... and your original question....... Why HPC enthusiasts puzzle me ? It puzzles me why you buy a flat 40% over the price it was a year previously, then come on here and state how clever you are..... Sounds like you might feel a tad uncomfortable when the bottom finally falls out of the market..... MUPPET...... Life really just goes on recession or no recession. Sure I know a couple of people got repo'd last time but they recovered bought again and have a lot of equity to show. Nobody I know died, thier life didnt end. Its a bit like going bankcrupt now (my youngest brother did recently and then his g f), life goes on, in fact thier life is much improved. They will find a way back to the mortgage market in 3 years and possibly pay a slightly higher rate for a couple - big deal, they,ve escaped 60k unsecured debt, and yes that is the end of it despite what the ill informed pessimists say. I made the point many times that even despite world wars and many recessionary periods in the 70s, life goes on, houses go up. As u may know I sold my B2Ls as I felt Id get better returns elsewhere and the possibility of a crash was playing on my mind. I wouldnt recommend new investment into UK B2L but I would still buy a home to live in now if I were a FTB. If it crashes life goes on one way or another. Renting was never for me, the money is not an issue, its about a mindset that most British have possesed since this nation was colonised - control your land and keep out maraudering tribes (tribes now replaced with LLs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 I wouldnt recommend new investment into UK B2L but I would still buy a home to live in now if I were a FTB. If it crashes life goes on one way or another. Renting was never for me, the money is not an issue, Money might not be an issue for you but to some of us it is, purely because we don't want to pay, say, £150k for something which is only worth £75k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Als Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 The political fallout would be so immense that the government will stop at nothing to avoid it. The Labour government will not survive the next election. The growing discontent in reaction to housing, immigration and civil liberties will conspire to make sure of that. And woe to any future government that continues on the same course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winners and Losers Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 We sold the flat in 88 and I left the property market. I made a profit but blew it on a failed business venture. I moved to Yorkshire where I eventually bought a 1-bed flat for £30K in 93. The value remained pretty much the same for the best part of 10 years. Only in the last couple of years has it gone up (roughly doubled) but it was actually a pretty crap purchase when I look at how other types of property have fared round there. Got married, moved to Manchester where my wife lived in her own house. We sold up in 2002 and moved south. We thought we'd done well at the time as we sold for £90K having bought for £45K, but in fact the house has doubled in value again in the last 4 years, so you could say we lost out. Meantime we bought a house in Bucks for £220K and have a biggish mortgage (about £160K originally, now about £120K), though only 9 years left thankfully. The house has probably hardly appreciated in value at all during that period, but for reasons mentioned earlier, that doesn't bother me. We bought the place because we wanted to live here, that's all. I still own the flat in Yorkshire and plan to sell it soon to pay off a big chunk of this mortgage. We're luckier than most, but I could have done a lot better financially if I'd been truly "clever". FFS. 7 pages and we finally get to the bottom of it all. You know us bears love 'bear facts'. I hope Badger reads the above. You really are no different to a lot of us. You are here because you too have your regrets. Truly 'clever' - unfortunately only TTRTR is truly clever, something the rest of us mere mortals can only aspire to. Sounds to me like you have been as clever as you could have been. Why do we all expect to be able to read the future. Its that old hindsight rearing its ugly head again! I would be interested to know your age bracket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFineMess Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Some good points there. Fair enough. At least you're being proactive by going for extra qualifications. That's exactly what I did a few years back, and it paid off. Best of luck -- you deserve it. Thanks for the encouragement I sometimes wonder if it will really pay off as I hope, but it's been fun learning again after such a looong break. In fact, much more fun than it ever was when I was younger. Having said that, I'm not doing this specifically in order to increase my income, or to be able to buy a house. I'm doing it so I can do the kind of work I'm good at and enjoy. I hope the money will follow success, but it's not my principal goal. Anyway, I'm in a good position in terms of what I do and what people are prepared to pay for it. As others have pointed out on this forum, many people do socially valuable and rewarding jobs that don't offer those opportunities. I think that the current overpricing of housing is extremely destabilising and risky for society as a whole, not just for my bank balance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenko3000 Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 The best hope the pro-crash people have is that interest rates will spiral out of control, leading to some sort of consumer financial meltdown where people won't be able to pay their credit card bills and mortgages, and there'll be mass bankruptcy everywhere and tons of cheap property available exclusively for users of this site. Interest rates aren't out of control but they are certainly going to be increasing over the next 12 months. As for the rest, have you have seen the exponentially-increasing curves for repos, bankruptcy etc? I don't think it's going to take very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Europa Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Interest rates aren't out of control but they are certainly going to be increasing over the next 12 months. As for the rest, have you have seen the exponentially-increasing curves for repos, bankruptcy etc? I don't think it's going to take very long. "Exponentially-increasing"? Are you sure? Have home repos' even reached the long-term average yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenko3000 Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 "Exponentially-increasing"? Are you sure? Have home repos' even reached the long-term average yet? Would you be happier if I said 'massively increasing' instead? It's the trend that matters, innit. From here: Actions entered by lenders, the first stage of repossession, rose 29% over the past year to 33,442, the highest level since the third quarter of 1992. Orders made (orders made by courts to repossess properties) were 57% higher over the past 12 months at 21,997 in Q4.... However, the sustained rise in unemployment during the past year has played a key role, and suggests that the numbers entering into the repossession process are likely to increase further during the second quarter. Moreover, as interest rates are set to increase later this year, the upward pressure on repossessions will not abate quickly. ... Consumer insolvencies in England and Wales leapt 73% on a year ago to a seasonally adjusted 23,351 in January to March, the Department of Trade and Industry said. That was up 13% on the previous three months and the highest quarterly total since comparable records began in 1960. ... The number of companies going into liquidation also rose during the first quarter of 2006. In total, 3,439 firms went to the wall, representing an increase of 17% on the same period last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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