brassfarthing

Seven out of eight can afford a home? Things are obviously much much better than I thought. Bit of an own goal there, RB.

Give it a rest, Pioneer, I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you.

If you come to the HPC forum for advice on how to invest 175K, you're totally mad. Why not spend it on psychiatric help?

I remember York beating Man Utd. Wasn't it 3-0? At Old Trafford? After that, I thought: "It's true. Anything in life is possible". I was one of the lucky few at that QPR match. Against Barnsley I think, FA Cup. Used to go to Loftus Rd quite a lot but that was the best goal ever.

Some sort of correction/dip/crash is, in my view, inevitable because historically, prices do go down as well as up. The big questions are when, by how much, and for how long. The bears say soon, 30-50%, 5 years+. I say perhaps 2008, nothing like 50% (perhaps 10-20%), and no idea to the last one. Depends what else is happening in the world.

People have to plan their finances. If someone takes out a 25 year mortgage aged 50, or MEWs just a few years before pension age, they have only themselves to blame. Every major financial decision I've made ensures that I have no financial commitment beyond the age of 60 at the very latest. This is more than plain common sense, it's inconceivable to do otherwise. I can hardly feel sympathy for people who are budgeting to be repaying large loans while in retirement.

I've not seen that said by anyone I'd describe like that. However, what was it that GBS said? "If all the economists were laid end to end, they'd never reach a conclusion". You can find a "commentator", respected and otherwise, to say anything you want if you spend a while digging around. I've no doubt at all that you could find "respected and successful traders" forecasting a 30-40%+ rise in HPI over the next few years. Or there again, a price plateau. Or anything else. We tend to pick up on, and remember, and quote, those whose prejudices align with our own. Whichever side of the argument you're on.

Pioneer31 has a very sentimental idea of the past, so much so that he had to invent a character, Aunt Jess, to turn his imagination into something more real. It's enough to move you to tears, to read about her hard upbringing and her poor parents, and how everything she strove for has now been ruined by 'the immigrants'. Tears of laughter, of course. ------------- Like most rational people over the age of 40, I've moved a bit beyond believing that a political party will deliver what it promises. It just doesn't happen. What does happen is that we forget how bad things used to be because we're so consumed by how bad things are now. So to speak. The lionisation of the Conservatives on this site is generally from people too young to remember the early 80s, and what Thatcher did. They also fail to appreciate that much of the things complained about on here - high debt, rampant HPI, have their roots in the Tories' financial deregulalation policies, and the selling off of council houses.

To be honest CD, I think the really desperate behaviour is displayed by STRs like RealistBear and PropertyGuru, both of whom are very touchy, to put it mildly. That said, I don't for one moment believe PG's signature. Anyone who makes that sort of sum and then spends his days and nights having tantrums on a website that prays for a HPC, has lost the plot. At best, it's hardly a good advert for the peace of mind that we assume material wealth will bring. RB gets hysterical because he STR-ed 3 years too early. On the wider point, the only people who have to worry about a crash are the people who buy just before one happens. And only then, it's becomes a major problem only if you were planning on selling soon. The BTL-ers in that position are exposed, no doubt. But most people who are digging for the longer term will be OK, especially if they have a fixed rate mortgage. It seems madness to me NOT to have a fixed rate if you still have a sizeable mortgage. Yes, it's true that people who buy just before a correction will kick themselves for not waiting a few months and paying less, but that's life. My company bought a 486 computer in 1988 for £4500. You can buy a machine hundreds of times better today for £300. i appreciate that it's a totally different sort of investment but should they have waited? The fact is that the work that the PC enabled them to do probably made the investment worthwhile back then. Similarly, buying a house isn't just about money. I like having my own place. Bears always go one about the imagined stress of having to make the mortgage payments but you have to balance that with the pleasure you get from creating your own living environment. Sorry if that sounds airy-fairy but anyone who buys will understand the great reduction in stress that gives to most people. Far from a house being a great worry, it's like being released from one.

I agree with much of that, though NOT the bit about the media. Apart from the BBC, (which is rightly the envy of the world) most of our media, particularly the press, is biased towards one constituency or other. Funnily enough, although I dislike most American TV I've seen, I have to say that the standard of print journalism in the USA is very high, and certainly much better than ours. Have a read through the big American newspaper websites and see the difference. On the wider UK question, I guess it depends a lot on where you live. Where I am, Buckinghamshire, smallish village, life is generally pretty good. It's the classic arrangement, residential, 2 pubs, church, PO, a few shops, and pretty peaceful. I sometimes travel to NW London with my job - Willesden, Harlesden area, and I have to say I wouldn't want to live there. People seem unhappy and life is a struggle. I could see myself living in France or Italy quite happily, if retired, but otherwise, I agree that for many of us, if you have a reasonably well-paid job and live somewhere nice, the UK is as good as it gets. If you're a one-parent family on the breadline in somewhere like Shepherds Bush, things would be different.

Yep, always trying to challenge the "victim complex" and the paranoia and the conspiracy theories you get on here. Seriously, I think people must start differentiating between the sort of stuff you get on the front pages of the Daily Express and Daily Mail (which I genuinely DO regard as irresponsible journalism which does have a ramping effect, whether intentionally or not), and the sort of article pointed to in the Sunday Times. It seems that as long as a journo isn't predicting blood on the streets and an immediate HPC, they're accused of ramping, or in the pay of the Bull VIs, or of course, in cahoots with the government. It's all bo11ocks, frankly.

No hang on. Your facts are wrong. This is a constant problem on HPC. Someone comes out with a couple of unverified points that then take on a life of their own. A different house sold a year ago for 302K. If we're talking about someone paying >£400K for a house in Sheffield (a place I know well) then we're not talking a bog-standard street of carbon-copy terraced houses. Let's have a look at the house details. Is there a link anywhere? Until we can see what they're getting for their money, and how it compares with the other house that sold for less, we really can't make a judgement.

A classic HPC response. The article (which I read) has nothing to do with "ramping" or "desperation". It's a pretty boring, but also pretty uncontroversial piece of journalism describing the current situation. Just because it doesn't shout "The crash is coming! Don't panic! Don't panic!" then it seems it has to be shameless ramping. It's this hyperbolic and over-sensitive response to anything written about the property market that devalues your position.

"The Most Unbelievable Spin Ever" Sigh. I wonder if "RealistBear" ( ) was able to type that without blushing? Or smirking at our gullibility? I read the piece. It set out the figures, some of which (relating to the price drop of new builds) would have pleased the bears, while others (relating to the net increase in property sales) would have pleased the bulls. In short, a classic BBC item, trying to steer a middle course. But no, according spinmeister extraordinaire (or "liar" in common parlance), RB, this story is "The Most Unbelievable Spin Ever". What an utter ****.

Remember that this is a website largely populated by property bears. They're absolutely entitled to their views, but understand that you're not in the right place if you want encouragement to buy. If you posted the same message at somewhere like www.moneysavingexpert.com, you'd get the opposite. For what it's worth, I would say that you sound like you really want to buy, and for the best of all reasons -- to offer your kids security, and to give you some sense of stability. These commodities are almost beyond financial value, and personally, I think they transcend the sniping we all do on this site, whether bull or bear. You have some finance, and you've looked at a place that can give you want you want. If it's a home rather than just an investment, I can't think of a good reason not to go for it. I would definitely throw in some caveats though...... - Get a fixed rate mortgage. It gives you fantastic peace of mind to know that you'll be paying the same rate for the next 5 or 7 or 10 years, regardless of what happens to IRs. - Obviously, it has to be a repayment mortgage and not an Interest Only. Mortgages always seem daunting before they start. For most people, as soon as you start paying, they become part of your budget and away you go. I totally agree with you about paying rent to a landlord. Even if your rent doesn't cover all their mortgage, the fact is, you are subsidising your landlord's investment. Some people can justify that to themselves (or have to because they can't afford to buy). Fair enough. But it always made me feel uncomfortable. If it was me, I would go for it. If you do go for it, I wish you and your family the best of luck. There is a risk involved, but there is a risk involved whatever you do. Even if there really is a HPC, it's likely that IRs will be so high that your mortgage payments on a cheaper property would be no lower than they would be at present.