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brassfarthing

Why Hpc Enthusiasts Puzzle Me.

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If I may, just a couple of points about the general tenor of these forums.

Property is about so much more than financial speculation. The great majority of property buyers just want somewhere to live with their other halfs/families. More than this, they want to be able to feel that this is their home, somewhere they can decorate how they want, move things about, turn it into their very own space.

People on here are constantly talking about "the" crash, "the" correction, as though sometime, we are all just going to slide off some cliff and never climb back. It doesn't work like that. Sure, there will definitely be corrections ahead. There may even be a full-blooded crash ahead. But for most people, this just won't matter.

If prices dropped by a significant margin, say 20%, it just wouldn't matter to me, and this is what you hardliners don't understand. It would only matter to me if I simply HAD to sell up at that precise moment, and to be honest, I can't think of any possible reason why I would HAVE to sell my house at that point. If and when another crash or correction or dip happens, I'll do what I always do -- shrug my shoulders and get on with my life. At some point in the future, probably a couple of years but maybe as much as 5 years, prices would rise again. In fact, a correction or crash would be a fantastic opportunity for BTL investment. A chance to buy cheap property before prices begin to rise again, as they invariably would.

This all reminds me a bit of a website that I came across a few years ago called something like we-hate-manu.com. As the name suggests, it was used by people who hated Manchester United. Every time they conceded a goal the forums would light up. If they actually lost a game or had some bad publicity, the users would go wild with delight. What no one ever, ever admitted was while these small dents were happening and being celebrated, the big picture was that Man Utd were actually doing very well. The website finally fizzled out in 1999, when they won the treble.

That's what it's like here. The markets dive for a few days and people go wild. A survey says that house prices have stopped rising and people punch the air in delight. This is it boys! The crash is happening! But do you look at the big picture? No. You celebrate the goals conceded, but gloss over the fact that the match is still won and the league title is getting closer.

The markets are losing investors at the moment, it's true. The correction may well go on for another week or month or two, and prices will probably then plateau for the rest of the year, perhaps longer. But what will happen then? Yep, you guessed it. The ghastly capitalists will start hoovering up the cheap equities and the upward trend will begin all over again. Exactly the same with house prices.

The people who lose out are those who decide to sell their equities or their property at a price lower than they paid for them. People who do this are those who simply HAVE to sell, or those who are foolish. The rest of us either sell when the market is at or near the top, or perhaps on the wane but still way above what we paid for them, making hefty profits in the process, or we hold on in the certain knowledge that prices will recover as they nearly always do. The most obvious exception to this was the dotcom bubble of the late 90s, but quite honestly, people who pumped money into those stocks when they shooting up were taking a stupid gamble, and almost deserved to be punished for their folly.

It's a cliché, but I'll say it again. Property and equities are long-term investments. It doesn't matter to me that property might crash at some point. It will recover. And even if history is rewritten, and it doesn't recover, what the hell? It's not just my house that will be reduced. Any house I may want to buy and move into will also be that much cheaper. Fantastic! What's the problem?

It's only the relatively small number of people who are into daily market trading, or professional property speculation who will be nervous. Those who have to keep doing deals may well suffer, but who cares about them? For the rest of us, it just doesn't matter, even if you guys think we are all quaking in our well-heeled boots. You may get flashes of temporary pleasure from dips in equities or property, but the bigger lifetime picture is clear. In the end, you'll lose out if all you have to energise yourselves is the hope of seeing other people suffer.

Why not gather up all that creative energy and direct it into some more positive direction?

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Property is about so much more than financial speculation. The great majority of property buyers just want somewhere to live with their other halfs/families. More than this, they want to be able to feel that this is their home, somewhere they can decorate how they want, move things about, turn it into their very own space.

Counldn't agree more I need a crash to fufill this. The majority of FTB's want a home they can afford on there wage. What you are saying is unless you earn £50,000 on your own or £80,000 as a couple you can't have a property. Alot of people earn less than £50,000.

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Guest Guy_Montag

If I may, just a couple of points about the general tenor of these forums.

Property is about so much more than financial speculation. The great majority of property buyers just want somewhere to live with their other halfs/families. More than this, they want to be able to feel that this is their home, somewhere they can decorate how they want, move things about, turn it into their very own space.

People on here are constantly talking about "the" crash, "the" correction, as though sometime, we are all just going to slide off some cliff and never climb back. It doesn't work like that. Sure, there will definitely be corrections ahead. There may even be a full-blooded crash ahead. But for most people, this just won't matter.

If prices dropped by a significant margin, say 20%, it just wouldn't matter to me, and this is what you hardliners don't understand. It would only matter to me if I simply HAD to sell up at that precise moment, and to be honest, I can't think of any possible reason why I would HAVE to sell my house at that point. If and when another crash or correction or dip happens, I'll do what I always do -- shrug my shoulders and get on with my life. At some point in the future, probably a couple of years but maybe as much as 5 years, prices would rise again. In fact, a correction or crash would be a fantastic opportunity for BTL investment. A chance to buy cheap property before prices begin to rise again, as they invariably would.

This all reminds me a bit of a website that I came across a few years ago called something like we-hate-manu.com. As the name suggests, it was used by people who hated Manchester United. Every time they conceded a goal the forums would light up. If they actually lost a game or had some bad publicity, the users would go wild with delight. What no one ever, ever admitted was while these small dents were happening and being celebrated, the big picture was that Man Utd were actually doing very well. The website finally fizzled out in 1999, when they won the treble.

That's what it's like here. The markets dive for a few days and people go wild. A survey says that house prices have stopped rising and people punch the air in delight. This is it boys! The crash is happening! But do you look at the big picture? No. You celebrate the goals conceded, but gloss over the fact that the match is still won and the league title is getting closer.

The markets are losing investors at the moment, it's true. The correction may well go on for another week or month or two, and prices will probably then plateau for the rest of the year, perhaps longer. But what will happen then? Yep, you guessed it. The ghastly capitalists will start hoovering up the cheap equities and the upward trend will begin all over again. Exactly the same with house prices.

The people who lose out are those who decide to sell their equities or their property at a price lower than they paid for them. People who do this are those who simply HAVE to sell, or those who are foolish. The rest of us either sell when the market is at or near the top, or perhaps on the wane but still way above what we paid for them, making hefty profits in the process, or we hold on in the certain knowledge that prices will recover as they nearly always do. The most obvious exception to this was the dotcom bubble of the late 90s, but quite honestly, people who pumped money into those stocks when they shooting up were taking a stupid gamble, and almost deserved to be punished for their folly.

It's a cliché, but I'll say it again. Property and equities are long-term investments. It doesn't matter to me that property might crash at some point. It will recover. And even if history is rewritten, and it doesn't recover, what the hell? It's not just my house that will be reduced. Any house I may want to buy and move into will also be that much cheaper. Fantastic! What's the problem?

It's only the relatively small number of people who are into daily market trading, or professional property speculation who will be nervous. Those who have to keep doing deals may well suffer, but who cares about them? For the rest of us, it just doesn't matter, even if you guys think we are all quaking in our well-heeled boots. You may get flashes of temporary pleasure from dips in equities or property, but the bigger lifetime picture is clear. In the end, you'll lose out if all you have to energise yourselves is the hope of seeing other people suffer.

Why not gather up all that creative energy and direct it into some more positive direction?

Of course the vast majority of people will be in your position. Fine with me, but there will be plenty of people who do have to sell & I only need there to be one. B)

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Give me an A...

Give me a W...

Give me an O...

Give me an O...

Sorry, we just run fresh outta them -- there appears to be a nest of recently hatched trolls somewhere around here -- perhaps they are hiding in those pesky adverts?

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Give me an A...

Give me a W...

Give me an O...

Give me an O...

I don't know where to start. But here are my personal top 3 of why house prices are a massive issue.

1. I don't have a house and I can't safely afford one now despite me And my partner being on an above average salary and having a fair amount of savings.

2. I am unlikely to stay in one place for 25 years, no one these days has jobs that last that long nor will if I eventually get a family will I be able to stay in the 2 bedroom house that I can afford now. If the house prices are lower in a few years time then my savings that I have had to use as a deposit are wiped out.

3. House prices will never be at this high again, simply because borrowing will probably never be as easy. Look at all the statistics listen to all the experts and you will find that everybody knows house prices are over valued.

Alot of people on here are home owners, they have alot to loose from a crash, so we are nothing like some anti-manu website, in the end a houseing crash will probably affect all of us badly, some will just be more protected from it. I am not cheering on a crash but I can't justify making a huge investment in property unless I am dead certain it is worth the risk, the main reason for this website is to inform. The houseing market is a complex issue and the majority of the information that is available in the press is simply from the wrong and biased sources.

Fair enough there are a few here I wonder about but for the most part we are trying to inform each other on a complex issue that is changing constantly.

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"If prices dropped by a significant margin, say 20%, it just wouldn't matter to me" Maybe it wouldnt matter to you flower, or to all those who bought at a reasonable level, If you but the peak and see prices fall, your deposit wiped out, knowing you are paying OTT mortgage payments each month, I think it would matter.

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Property is about so much more than financial speculation. The great majority of property buyers just want somewhere to live with their other halfs/families. More than this, they want to be able to feel that this is their home, somewhere they can decorate how they want, move things about, turn it into their very own space.

Absolute BS!

The topic of just about any conversation turns to how much their cockroach infested hovel is worth now, how much value they added by building a ludicrous gazebo in the back yard etc. It's ALL about speculation.

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Property is about so much more than financial speculation. The great majority of property buyers just want somewhere to live with their other half’s/families.

Err... You don't know it but you are an HPCer.

The reason why this site exist is because of fools (With respect to quality of a societies life) have speculated a basic human requirement out of reach of the reach of many families.

Being locked in to a slave labor of a debt (because people have been speculating) is wrong.

Thats why we are here... because it has been speculated! We are here to warn FTBers away.

The

so much more than financial speculation
statement is a classic way of goading people in to parting with their hard earned dosh. You trying to give them an excuse to follow the crowd.

Tell you what... I have a lovely property... Would make a fantastic home... you can have it...

If you give me your entire futures earning... After all a home is worth much more than money.

What a load of rubbish. I bet you’re an estate agent. (Or a member of a vested intrest group)

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Alot of people on here are home owners, they have alot to loose from a crash

They will only have a lot to lose if they HAVE to sell up at that point. Agreed that you may want to move some distance over 25 years, but if there's an extended bottoming out of the market it is only likely to restrict you for about 5 years max, and probably less. If your job forces you to travel extensively and stay in one place for a long period then property ownership probably isn't right for you except as a BTL investment while you rent.

I've got great sympathy with FTBs and I agree that something has to change (eg the much discussed 50 or 100 year mortgages) and people have to be more resourceful, but every generation thinks they've missed the boat. In 85 when I bought my first flat, I was distraught that it was £42K when a year earlier it had been only £30K. That's it, I thought, I've missed out. I was earning £9K at the time and my partner even less, so it was still a huge amount of money to us at the time, but in retrospect it was the best purchase we ever made.

I just don't know if there will be a crash. I suspect it's more likely to be a period of stagnation and perhaps a drift downwards. Depends on other areas of the economy and unpredictable events like bird flu. If that occurs, who knows what will happen in the world economy.

Finally, I don't mean to sound unsympathetic to people who are genuinely struggling. I feel really sorry for people who are fresh out of university with huge debts. In my day, we had full grants and subsidies. But there are quite a lot of people on here who get very triumphalist when the markets have a bad day, as if this is the the first sign of the end of capitalism. I think that's a pointless and negative attitude. As I said earlier, the truth is that the odd correction here and there just doesn't matter that much. In fact, it's absolutely expected behaviour, as history makes plain.

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Reposted it at the end of the thread!

Has to be a record - started post at 4:45 and finished it at 8PM!!!!

Longest post on HPC?

TB

Edited by teddyboy

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"If prices dropped by a significant margin, say 20%, it just wouldn't matter to me" Maybe it wouldnt matter to you flower, or to all those who bought at a reasonable level, If you but the peak and see prices fall, your deposit wiped out, knowing you are paying OTT mortgage payments each month, I think it would matter.

OK, it would matter to anyone who was thinking of selling or who had to sell, but otherwise, what's the worst case scenario? That you're paying more per month on your mortgage than the house is actually worth. It all depends on how much more of course, but surely it's got to be better than giving that money to some landlord who doesn't give a toss about the quality of your life, and is always moaning about you not keeping the place clean or whatever.

Owning your own place and being able to design your own living space how you want is something that fundamentally changes your world-view. Personally I think that it's worth paying a premium for, especially as you can be certain that in a few years the financial value will have recovered again.

Edited by brassfarthing

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Guest Baffled_by_it_all

It's just a typical bull argument as far as I can see.

The whole thing boils down to 'you've missed the boat'

So we're killjoys because we bemoan the fact that people have to take on huge amounts of debt to afford a place to live. That this country is fuelled by a credit boom and people spending money they haven't got to fund a meaningless aspirational lifestyle.

Putting the brakes on it would do everyone a favour.

'Owning your own place and being able to design your own living space how you want is something that fundamentally changes your world-view' - think you need to get out more.

No honestly, step away from the Ikea lampshade and come out of the house.

Edited by Baffled_by_it_all

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It's just a typical bull argument as far as I can see.

The whole thing boils down to 'you've missed the boat'

Who's saying that? I'm saying that every generation thinks they've missed the boat, and they never have.

'Owning your own place and being able to design your own living space how you want is something that fundamentally changes your world-view' - think you need to get out more, mate...

No, I like it in here better. Now, tell me if this picture is straight.... ;)

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but every generation thinks they've missed the boat

Every person that moves up a pyramid scheme will have missed a lot compared to the guy who was in before. But there is a natural limit.

We are only on this planet for a short time and our working lives are even shorter... so as the game goes on we will reach the point where you need 50 + year mortgages to buy instead of the 25. At this point it becomes a type of life long slavery, it is the stage where we are at now. Once people realise the prices wont go up anymore they will wonder why give away so much of your life to a grassy bit of mud!

We are at the point where people pay rent to live in the UK untill the day they die. (Intrest only mortgages)

We have not just only missed the boat... but the office issuing tickets for the next one has closed and sunk

with the jetty/port!

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Guest Winners and Losers

Who's saying that? I'm saying that every generation thinks they've missed the boat, and they never have.

I'll give you my last brass farthing if you can prove it. ;)

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Brassfarthing

You bought your house in times of high inflation - thats now gone - we can't expect wages to catch up!

You've also skipped around the HUMONGOUS DEBT issue in this country along with the fact that many

people would've bought at peak prices (by being scaremongered into buying) with historically low interest rates.

Now I ask you....what will these people do WHEN interest rates rise??

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If I may, just a couple of points about the general tenor of these forums.

Property is about so much more than financial speculation. The great majority of property buyers just want somewhere to live with their other halfs/families. More than this, they want to be able to feel that this is their home, somewhere they can decorate how they want, move things about, turn it into their very own space.

People on here are constantly talking about "the" crash, "the" correction, as though sometime, we are all just going to slide off some cliff and never climb back. It doesn't work like that. Sure, there will definitely be corrections ahead. There may even be a full-blooded crash ahead. But for most people, this just won't matter.

If prices dropped by a significant margin, say 20%, it just wouldn't matter to me, and this is what you hardliners don't understand. It would only matter to me if I simply HAD to sell up at that precise moment, and to be honest, I can't think of any possible reason why I would HAVE to sell my house at that point. If and when another crash or correction or dip happens, I'll do what I always do -- shrug my shoulders and get on with my life. At some point in the future, probably a couple of years but maybe as much as 5 years, prices would rise again. In fact, a correction or crash would be a fantastic opportunity for BTL investment. A chance to buy cheap property before prices begin to rise again, as they invariably would.

This all reminds me a bit of a website that I came across a few years ago called something like we-hate-manu.com. As the name suggests, it was used by people who hated Manchester United. Every time they conceded a goal the forums would light up. If they actually lost a game or had some bad publicity, the users would go wild with delight. What no one ever, ever admitted was while these small dents were happening and being celebrated, the big picture was that Man Utd were actually doing very well. The website finally fizzled out in 1999, when they won the treble.

That's what it's like here. The markets dive for a few days and people go wild. A survey says that house prices have stopped rising and people punch the air in delight. This is it boys! The crash is happening! But do you look at the big picture? No. You celebrate the goals conceded, but gloss over the fact that the match is still won and the league title is getting closer.

The markets are losing investors at the moment, it's true. The correction may well go on for another week or month or two, and prices will probably then plateau for the rest of the year, perhaps longer. But what will happen then? Yep, you guessed it. The ghastly capitalists will start hoovering up the cheap equities and the upward trend will begin all over again. Exactly the same with house prices.

The people who lose out are those who decide to sell their equities or their property at a price lower than they paid for them. People who do this are those who simply HAVE to sell, or those who are foolish. The rest of us either sell when the market is at or near the top, or perhaps on the wane but still way above what we paid for them, making hefty profits in the process, or we hold on in the certain knowledge that prices will recover as they nearly always do. The most obvious exception to this was the dotcom bubble of the late 90s, but quite honestly, people who pumped money into those stocks when they shooting up were taking a stupid gamble, and almost deserved to be punished for their folly.

It's a cliché, but I'll say it again. Property and equities are long-term investments. It doesn't matter to me that property might crash at some point. It will recover. And even if history is rewritten, and it doesn't recover, what the hell? It's not just my house that will be reduced. Any house I may want to buy and move into will also be that much cheaper. Fantastic! What's the problem?

It's only the relatively small number of people who are into daily market trading, or professional property speculation who will be nervous. Those who have to keep doing deals may well suffer, but who cares about them? For the rest of us, it just doesn't matter, even if you guys think we are all quaking in our well-heeled boots. You may get flashes of temporary pleasure from dips in equities or property, but the bigger lifetime picture is clear. In the end, you'll lose out if all you have to energise yourselves is the hope of seeing other people suffer.

Why not gather up all that creative energy and direct it into some more positive direction?

Yep! sounds about right.

Welcome

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Brassfarthing,

You've gone to a lot of trouble to write this long diatribe (I'm sorry but I haven't read anywhere near all of it but I get the gist from the heading and first sentence) so soon after joining. Why?

If you couldn't understand why people on here speak as they do, why bother to join and put up with more of it?

What's your game? Isn't there a forum somewhere called 'House prices in the UK always go up - you simply must become a home owner at any price!' Have a look. If you can't find one, start one. You'll find plenty of people to join you. Have a nice time.

p

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Every person that moves up a pyramid scheme will have missed a lot compared to the guy who was in before. But there is a natural limit.

We are only on this planet for a short time and our working lives are even shorter... so as the game goes on we will reach the point where you need 50 + year mortgages to buy instead of the 25. At this point it becomes a type of life long slavery, it is the stage where we are at now. Once people realise the prices wont go up anymore they will wonder why give away so much of your life to a grassy bit of mud!

We are at the point where people pay rent to live in the UK untill the day they die. (Intrest only mortgages)

We have not just only missed the boat... but the office issuing tickets for the next one has closed and sunk

with the jetty/port!

I like the metaphor, CAS, but only time will reveal the truth, or otherwise, of your claims. I absolutely agree that we may be on the verge of a period of no HP inflation or even a dip, but history tells us that eventually it will go up again. We'll see.

Agree that interest-only deals are very undesirable. Your mortgage has got to be paying off the capital.

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If I may, just a couple of points about the general tenor of these forums.

Property is about so much more than financial speculation. The great majority of property buyers just want somewhere to live with their other halfs/families. More than this, they want to be able to feel that this is their home, somewhere they can decorate how they want, move things about, turn it into their very own space.

People on here are constantly talking about "the" crash, "the" correction, as though sometime, we are all just going to slide off some cliff and never climb back. It doesn't work like that. Sure, there will definitely be corrections ahead. There may even be a full-blooded crash ahead. But for most people, this just won't matter.

If prices dropped by a significant margin, say 20%, it just wouldn't matter to me, and this is what you hardliners don't understand. It would only matter to me if I simply HAD to sell up at that precise moment, and to be honest, I can't think of any possible reason why I would HAVE to sell my house at that point. If and when another crash or correction or dip happens, I'll do what I always do -- shrug my shoulders and get on with my life. At some point in the future, probably a couple of years but maybe as much as 5 years, prices would rise again. In fact, a correction or crash would be a fantastic opportunity for BTL investment. A chance to buy cheap property before prices begin to rise again, as they invariably would.

This all reminds me a bit of a website that I came across a few years ago called something like we-hate-manu.com. As the name suggests, it was used by people who hated Manchester United. Every time they conceded a goal the forums would light up. If they actually lost a game or had some bad publicity, the users would go wild with delight. What no one ever, ever admitted was while these small dents were happening and being celebrated, the big picture was that Man Utd were actually doing very well. The website finally fizzled out in 1999, when they won the treble.

That's what it's like here. The markets dive for a few days and people go wild. A survey says that house prices have stopped rising and people punch the air in delight. This is it boys! The crash is happening! But do you look at the big picture? No. You celebrate the goals conceded, but gloss over the fact that the match is still won and the league title is getting closer.

The markets are losing investors at the moment, it's true. The correction may well go on for another week or month or two, and prices will probably then plateau for the rest of the year, perhaps longer. But what will happen then? Yep, you guessed it. The ghastly capitalists will start hoovering up the cheap equities and the upward trend will begin all over again. Exactly the same with house prices.

The people who lose out are those who decide to sell their equities or their property at a price lower than they paid for them. People who do this are those who simply HAVE to sell, or those who are foolish. The rest of us either sell when the market is at or near the top, or perhaps on the wane but still way above what we paid for them, making hefty profits in the process, or we hold on in the certain knowledge that prices will recover as they nearly always do. The most obvious exception to this was the dotcom bubble of the late 90s, but quite honestly, people who pumped money into those stocks when they shooting up were taking a stupid gamble, and almost deserved to be punished for their folly.

It's a cliché, but I'll say it again. Property and equities are long-term investments. It doesn't matter to me that property might crash at some point. It will recover. And even if history is rewritten, and it doesn't recover, what the hell? It's not just my house that will be reduced. Any house I may want to buy and move into will also be that much cheaper. Fantastic! What's the problem?

It's only the relatively small number of people who are into daily market trading, or professional property speculation who will be nervous. Those who have to keep doing deals may well suffer, but who cares about them? For the rest of us, it just doesn't matter, even if you guys think we are all quaking in our well-heeled boots. You may get flashes of temporary pleasure from dips in equities or property, but the bigger lifetime picture is clear. In the end, you'll lose out if all you have to energise yourselves is the hope of seeing other people suffer.

Why not gather up all that creative energy and direct it into some more positive direction?

ok

Maybe you could have cut your post down a bit, let me have a go.

Homes are primarily for living in, not speculation

hows that?

(I agree by the way)

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Property is about so much more than financial speculation. The great majority of property buyers just want somewhere to live with their other halfs/families. More than this, they want to be able to feel that this is their home, somewhere they can decorate how they want, move things about, turn it into their very own space.

Exactly, I couldn't agree more. The problem is this...

On my wage I'd have to borrow seven times my salary on interest only to afford the most basic of homes. If IRs go up only slightly I won't be able to afford the repayments. A rise in IRs would also likely result in a fall in house prices so I'd be stuck with a loan I couldn't afford to pay, secured against something that wasn't worth enough to cover the capital. That's why I'm so keen for a HPC... basically so I can buy something that I know I'll be able to afford to keep. If I could afford to buy a home right now and not worry about the consequences I would do. Frankly I couldn't care less what the value does, but I do care that I can afford to stay there whatever the future holds.

Edited by Bingley Bloke

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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